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Calling bullsh*t on custodial parents who let the children decide their visitation

Posted Wednesday, August 4th, 2010 by Gregory Forman

When I first started practicing family law I would encounter a number of visitation enforcement hearings in which the custodial parent tried to excuse his or her failure to have the children visit with the other parent because “the children didn’t want to.”  Occasionally, and much to my frustration, the judges would sometimes accept this excuse and not find the custodial parent in contempt.  Early in my career I didn’t have an effective counter to these parents’ claims other than to hope the judge would enforce the order rather than buy the custodial parent’s excuse.  It has been my more recent experience that, absent evidence of abuse, the court doesn’t accept these excuses as frequently.

However, in the interim, I have developed what I believe is an effective cross examination technique for a custodial parent who testifies that he or she won’t force the children to visit the other parent because the children don’t want to.  I ask them what other things they expect their children to do that they don’t require them to do when they don’t want to.  Can the children refuse to do their chores/eat their vegetables/practice their violin/brush their teeth if they don’t want to?  Can their children drink bourbon for breakfast when they don’t want to drink milk?  Can their children have sex with their boyfriend/girlfriend when they don’t want to spend the afternoon studying?  Can their children go to the beach when they don’t want to go to school?

There’s a heck of a lot of things that parents force their children to do because they’re the parent and they decide what’s good for their child.  Visiting the non-custodial parent–assuming the child really doesn’t want to visit and also assuming there’s no abuse going on–is one of those things the courts should be forcing upon the children and custodial parent.  If the situation with the non-custodial parent gets bad enough, it should be the custodial parent’s obligation to seek an order reducing the other parent’s visitation, rather than simply denying visitation and expecting the court to not enforce its own orders.

Only one time in my career have I seen a child refuse to visit the non-custodial parent when the custodial parent supported the visitation and, in that case, the parties eventually agreed to forgo the non-custodial parent’s visitation when it became clear in (court-ordered) counseling why the child didn’t want to visit.  I was hoping that the courts were getting away from letting children, with the support of the custodial parent, decide their own (lack of) visitation and that the courts were gradually seeing that this unwillingness to visit was frequently tied to the custodial parent’s disregard for the other parent.  However, just today, I have discussed or been involved in three situations in which visitation has been denied because the custodial parent supported the child(ren)’s decision not to visit.  It may be time to dust off my “bourbon for breakfast” script.

Filed under

Child Custody Contempt/Enforcement of Orders Litigation Strategy Not South Carolina Specific Of Interest to Family Law Attorneys Visitation Of Interest to Family Court Litigants

(591) Comments

Thomas F. McDow

August 4, 2010 at 6:39 pm

I love your "bourbon for breakfast" analogy and will take advantage of it the next time I am faced with this situation. I never believe that a child reaches a decision not to visit without help from the custodial parent. The best book I ever read on domestic relations is Martin Gugenheim's "What's Wrong with Children's Rights." His premise is that children should have no involvement in custody and visitation issues, including no guardians, no lawyers, no counselors, and no conslultation. If parents love their children, they do not give them any say so as to whether or not to visit but that does not mean that the parent and the child cannot discuss modifications to suit their needs. Great column.
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Linda

August 4, 2010 at 6:54 pm

On the claiming abuse issue as a general basis for "not forcing visitation", did the custodial parent call DSS or report the alleged abuse to the authorities? Usually not, because there wasn't any. . .at least one Judge here has added the child as a party and let them face the music with the custodial parent if they didn't visit.
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Cherie

August 5, 2010 at 9:30 am

Amen. I agree. If parents who are separating or divorcing want healthy children, they need to encourage the relationship that their children have with the other parent and support it. I understand that it is not the most natural thing to do when you are separating or divorcing the other parent but as a parent we often make choices or sacrifices for the good of our children. This is definitely one of them.
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MJ Goodwin

August 5, 2010 at 10:39 am

I love some of your cross examples. I'm going to borrow those. The biggest problem that I encounter with this situation is a tween-age kid (say 11-14) who has not be "abused" in the traditional sense, but whose non-custodial parent has behaved so badly, for so long, that the child simply wants nothing to do with that parent. That, for me, is the hardest case, especially as a GAL. I try to gradually work the child into wanting see the other parent and encourage the non-custodial parent to curb some of the bad mouthing or other "non-abusive" behavior that has led to the problem in the first place.
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Gregory Forman

August 5, 2010 at 11:21 am

MJ- Unless the non-custodial parent represents a danger to the children, I tell my custodial clients to stick their children in the other parent’s car and tell them to enjoy the time the best they can. It my experience, the children, upon understanding that the custodial parent supports their visiting with the other parent, accept the visitation even if it isn’t exactly what they want to be doing. Kids only get two parents and they need to have a good relationship with both whenever possible. Yet how often does the children’s relationship with the non custodial parent deteriorate after the parties separate? I am amazed that the family court fails to acknowledge this correlation and fails to attribute this correlation to actions--however subtle--by the custodial parent. If the custodial parent wants the children to have a good relationship with the other parent, they almost always will. When the relationship begins to deteriorate, I believe we need to closely examine what the custodial parent is doing and take control from that parent and the children (unless there is actual evidence of abuse).
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California observer

August 5, 2010 at 11:32 am

The right thing legally might not be the right thing personally. I was one of the "good parents," following the court order to the letter, sending my daughter for her four days a week with a mentally disturbed mother who manipulated and emotionally abused her. But there were no physical marks, the mother was incredibly personable and reasonable to any adults around. My daughter was going crazy (aged 9-12), while I hoped the private therapists who saw the damage would speak up. Turns out therapists are professionally banned from offering custody advice (NOW they tell me!), so I needed to start a two-year process of a full psychiatric custody evaluation. Finally got it, it revealed exactly the craziness we all knew about, and my daughter has been 100% with me ever since. So doing the "right thing" meant a kid lived half-time for four extra years in a horrific emotional environment, while the legal and theraputic machinery creaked on; thumbing my nose at the court could have saved her much of that trauma, and I often regret not taking that path.
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Gregory Forman

August 5, 2010 at 11:40 am

California observer- Note the exception I make for my views on this topic when there is evidence of abuse. When there is abuse I suggest the custodial parent file an action to limit the other parent’s visitation. I acknowledge that it sometimes takes a period of counseling with the child to get the evidence of abusive behavior but I would rather see a child undergo brief periods of psychological abuse by the non-custodial parent, as the therapist develops evidence of abuse, than have custodial parents taking it upon themselves to decide when the non-custodial parent should have visitation.
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Single Parent

August 5, 2010 at 3:04 pm

I am surprised at how cavalier professionals are about sending children into the lion's den (disturbed parent) just in case the other parent is alienating the child. If there is evidence that a child is being emotionally abused or manipulated, shouldn't a Judge check on the allegations before assuming the custodial parent is causing the rift? I am sympathetic to parents and children who are dealing with this selfish manipulation by a disturbed parent. In the case of California Observer I see a typical trend in the Court's handling of this type problem. 1. I am sure this was a difficult time for everyone involved (especially the child) and it sounds like it lasted for several years which I believe was unnecessary. 2. During the ages of 9-12, children are just coming into a sense of who they are. They need to be able to trust themselves so that they can develop those skills into adulthood. When a disturbed parent is manipulating a child into not trusting what they know in favor of making the child believe the disturbed parent is right, it stunts this development and causes a lot of internal turmoil for the child. 3. Parental Alienation or manipulation is not that hard to figure out if someone is willing to take the time to investigate. I believe Judges should have a "plan" for making that happen which might start with a court appointed therapist and a well constructed set of questions. It should not go on for years requiring the “well” parent to prove the abuse. WHY NOT ERROR CAUTIOUSLY ON THE SIDE OF THE CHILD? Let the adult deal with the injustice while a Judge's determination is made. If the claims are false, let the other parent deal with the consequences of not telling the truth. Isn't this what we are supposed to be teaching our children anyway????? Lastly, I will repeat myself from another blog response. Family Court Judges should be focused on what is best for the children and the family. Defaulting visitation or custody to a disturbed parent is not in the best interest of either; it is in the best interest of one of the parties to the case. By the Court's lack of response in Calif. Observer, the needs of the child were dismissed in favor of the non-custodial parent. The results forced a child into intensive therapy for years. I’m sure it was confusing for the child because they were trying to figure out if they were crazy. By nature, children do not want to be in therapy. When a child is in therapy due to a parent's actions, I feel that represents the most heinous form of emotional abuse. I also believe that Calif. Observer's experience is not that uncommon.
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MJ Goodwin

August 5, 2010 at 6:07 pm

Your position assumes that the custodial parent is the villian. That is not always the case. I have seen custodial parents encourage, very adamantly, that their child should visit the "non-abusive" but poorly behaving visiting parent, to no avail. Each case has to be viewed on its own merits. There is little room for a broad brush approach in dealing with children.
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Stacey

August 8, 2010 at 10:52 am

I have a question about teenagers and visitation. I also call bullsh*t on allowing the self-absorbed teen to decide their own visitation. It blows my mind that the courts would allow such especially when there is absolutely no reason absent abuse that the child shouldn't visit other than the custodial parent's lack of support for the visitation. I have been told of a "15 year old rule" in SC, which says the custodial parent can not be held in contempt of a visitation order. Is this true and is there such a rule? If so, where can I access a copy of it? If this is true, then there is no reason to have or to modify a visitation order once a child turns 15, because no order can actually be enforced at that point. I have fought for 8 years to maintain a healthy and as normal as possible relationship with my now 15 y/o daughter. I have joint legal custody with a visitation order but have had to involve law enforcement on at least two occasions to exercise visitation and there have been a number of other instances where my ex has used her power as custodial parent to frustrate and/or deny my parental rights; I was not notified of my daughter's confirmation in the Methodist Church in direct contempt of our court order, which is only one instance of many in that regard. In 2007, my ex moved to VA and provided a written offer to have our visitation order modified at her expense to include visitation on all holidays, the entire summer, and one visit per month to my residence at her expense. I never agreed to the change because agreeing to change the order would establish my consent for her to move my child away. I was opposed to the move but the legal advice I received at the time said that I had only about a 50% chance of stopping her. However, we have followed her visitation proposal with only minor deviation over the past three years. On to present day, my ex planned a two-week vacation in Barbados including my daughter during middle of July. She told my daughter she was going and sent her to be the messenger to me. I was not included in any way in the planning. When I notified my ex that my wife and I had already planned our family vacation during that same time, suggested going a week or so later, and informed her that my parents were celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary during the time they were planning to go to Barbados, she then reverted back to the current order, which splits the summer equally so she could have that time regardless of my plans and the celebration of a significant family milestone. She ended up having to cancel her trip because my daughter's passport had expired and she needed my signature to renew it. In retaliation, my ex filed a complaint with the court to reduce my visitation to 2 weeks in the summer because my daughter no longer wants to spend all her holidays and the entire summer with me. My daughter became very upset with me because their vacation to Barbados was canceled. Obviously, my ex put our daughter in the middle and created a situation where she would resent me and any visitation, ordered or not. If there is a 15 y/o rule, I am royally screwed. I have already had a preliminary hearing and there is a temporary order in place which includes a Guardian ad Litem; my daughter and I have an appointment with her in 3 days. Even though my daughter's anger with me over the trip has subsided, I believe she is expected to be in lock-step with her mother and no matter how much she might enjoy her time here once she arrives, she will not betray her mother due to the alignment her mother has created over the past 8 years. What do I do? I am representing my self because I have spent close to $50K in the past and have gotten no protections. I'm done spending money on this, going broke in the process, and having no protections. When I filed my answer to her complaint, I also filed contempt charges on her for the situations mentioned above as well as several others. I was hoping to use the charges as negotiating power to get her to a reasonable settlement w/out going to trial on her complaint or the contempt. I have since learned that the clerk of court's office lost my charges; how convenient for my ex. Any advice on how to approach this with the GAL would be appreciated.
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Dan

August 19, 2010 at 2:22 pm

Greg, I have to call a loud and resounding BULLSH*T on your position. It is complete nonsense. The "right" of a parent to see their children should not be obstructed by the other parent; however, that "right" in no way places any responsibility on the other parent for its fulfillment or satisfaction. If the children are being forcibly restrained from visiting the non-custodial parent, then the court has some authority, but without evidence of forcible restraint, the court has no authority to interfere, because no order of the court has been violated. If the children choose not to go, then that is their choice, and it is up to the non-custodial parent to address the problem with the children, not the court's or the custodial parent's. If the non-custodial parent chooses not to address the children's resistance to seeing him/her, then that is tantamount to abdication of the "right" to see the children. It is no small point that these children may share the custodial parent's opinion of the non-custodial parent based solely upon the children's experience with the non-custodial and may be making an informed decision based upon that experience, which, absent any information or evidence to the contrary, neither you nor the court are authorized to ignore or overrule.
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Erin

August 26, 2010 at 5:28 pm

I also call bullsh**! I have an 11 year old son that wants nothing to do with his non custodial father. Why because he only bothered to see him 3 times a year if that. This goes back to birth. I remarried when he was an infant. He bonded with the step father. His father is a full blown narcissist and I do not throw that out there lightly. During his infrequent visitations which I pushed vehemently on him to do, the non custodial father would make one negative comment after the other about me, my husband and his step brother if my son made the mistake of mentioning any of them. His final visitation his father was doing a dance or jig he called it singing and laughing. My son thinking it was a funny thing asked him what he was doing and he told him that he was doing the dance he was planning to do at my funeral! I have lupus and am disabled with many medical problems. My son worries about this alot which his father would know if he bothered to talk to him but instead felt making a joke out of something that was a serious matter to my son without even a single thought. My son was so upset when he got home he said NOTHING for 2 days. That is how long it took me to get out of him what he was so upset about. When he told me nothing but rage poured out of him about his feelings about his father and how he just didnt want to go back because of all of the things he was saying and doing and then let me in on them all! I was floored! Here I had been trying to be a good parent and encourage a relationship between them and my son was being hurt by this man each time he bothered to take him for a visit. Our daughter who was older and idealized him went all the time. He wouldnt take our son so many times and here I thought this would be what did damage! I told him that day I wouldnt make him go back unless he wanted to. His father only asked to see him again that Christmas 6 months after and expected me to force him to come. I had done all the forcing I intended to do. I told him he was welcome to talk to our son and see if he could fix the damage he had done and if he decided he wanted to come after all I would be more than happy to let him go. He didnt bother and has only ever made a stink over visitation when he was trying to arm wrestle me over forgiving his huge child support arrearage (owes me over 13k in past due support) and was having a contempt charge put on him. I couldnt FORCE him to see our son or be a part of his life but I am expected to FORCE the child he has so neglected and treated so horribly to go and visit him??? How is THAT in the best interest of our child? There is no bond between them because he never tried to form one. Our son never even asks about him because he really feels nothing there. He has no void because he has a step father that he is so close to. I would forgive every dime of support and arrears for him to sign over his rights but he refuses to do that either. I think my issue is sometimes the visitation contempt is used by nc parents only when they are being pressed for the back support they owe. I would love for his father to show a single time in the past 2 years he ever tried to see him or a single birthday card he ever sent or for that matter even a birthday or christmas present. Our daughter that actually idealized him now is 19 and has nothing to do with him either because she grew to see him through the eyes of an adult instead of a little girl that wanted to believe her daddy was a great man. Once she saw the real man, she now has nothing to do with him. The difference was they bonded and she did not have another fatherly relationship to fulfill that need as our son has so it took longer. But he managed to poison even that relationship..all by himself. I feel for good parents that are denied visitation but what about those that dont bother with them but a few times a year and then holler fowl when the child no longer cares to see them? They have only themselves to blame. I couldnt force him to be a father to our son, I certainly wont force our son to be a son to his father either!
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Gregory Forman

August 26, 2010 at 6:12 pm

Erin: I am not sure that your situation is the one my blog describes. Your ex-husband wanted nothing to do with your son. It’s no surprise your son reciprocated this lack of regard and didn’t want to visit his father. It has been my general (though not sole) experience that when a child doesn’t want to visit a parent who desires a relationship with the child, and there’s been no real abuse, it’s because the custodial parent won’t advocate the other parent’s relationship with the child. You can always make up some reason for a child not wanting to visit, as no parent is perfect, but, absent abuse or parental hostility towards the child, those reasons only appear to gain traction when the custodial parent is resistant.
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Dan

August 26, 2010 at 7:11 pm

Greg, I want to reiterate the point from my post, sorry for butting in Erin. The custodial parent has ZERO responsibility for the relationship that the children have with non-custodial parent. I say this as a NON-Custodial parent. My relationship with my children is my responsibility, not my ex's. The premise of your argument is flawed. You wrongly assume that a relationship can be formed or repaired by a person who is not in that relationship. If the children don't want to see the non-custodial parent, then it is the non-custodial parent's responsibility to determine the reason and work it out with the children. Most people who complain about this type of visitation problem never made an effort to have a relationship with their children in the first place. They unreasonably think that now that they are ready to make a lazy half dead effort, everyone should bend over backwards to accommodate them. I say, "NO!!!" If they wanted a relationship with the children, then they should have started one when the children were young and worked from that foundation. The type of people that you are describing are lazy and irresponsible and think that they are "owed" a relationship with their children. If they REALLY wanted one, they would work for it.
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Gregory Forman

August 26, 2010 at 8:00 pm

Dan, While not denying your experience was different, my experience representing parents (both custodial and non-custodial) is that the custodial parent has tremendous influence over a child’s relationship with the non-custodial parent. I believe most family court judges would agree with my assessment.
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Erin

August 26, 2010 at 10:31 pm

Greg, sure we have some. But frankly I had my hands full being his mother AND father while his dad chose to have nothing to do with him. Any attempt on my part to try and get his father to see him regularly was met with sarcasm and me being told that I am trying to shove his son down his throat and force him to see him. When all I was trying to get him to commit to was one single weekend a month! I could see what was going to happen and I felt my son needed his father too. But the ncp was NOT interested in that relationship and I can only do so much. I was just as powerless then as I would be now to try and force my son to go and visit these people that are so screwed up that they could care less about how he feels about them sitting there and verbally trashing everyone he loves and cares about in his home. The people that ARE there for him. His father is now threatening me with a contempt charge because our son wont go. I have documented my position on the only time he asked to see him and I refused. I told him the issued with our son and asked him to talk to him and work it out. Tell him how sorry he was and it will go a long way. He was really hurt and upset from it. His father said it was a bunch of bullshi** and he didnt have to do a damn thing. I said then enjoy the christmas with out him. I wont be forcing him to go. I have not received any further requests to see him since that christmas in 2008. But you can bet he will go before the judge and play the poor victim ncp that has had a cp practice parental alienation. If they sit down and talk to our son for 5 minutes they will know the only one that said anything to hurt the father/son relationship was the FATHER. The court filing is the 2nd attempt at even mentioning the visitation in 2 years. That is ALL on him. The thing is that is has NOTHING To do with him wanting to see his son and everything to do with not wanting to pay child support. He never wanted him, he resents supporting him and when I told him he could relinquish his parental rights and my husband would be more than pleased to adopt him he said he would never allow that to happen. He is just a concept to him that he wants to control but not pay for and certainly not be inconvenience with. He feels he owes his son no such conversation, apology or discussion. His exact word were he is the adult and our son is the child, he HAS NO RIGHTS, HE GOES WHERE HE IS TOLD!. Since he hasnt had to be a full time parent to any of our children their whole lives he has no concept of a healthy relationship with a child. I truly feel forcing him by phyical force to go with him would be a horrible thing to do to him. Especially since he has a very VALID reason for not wishing to be there!
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Erin

August 26, 2010 at 10:55 pm

I wanted to add that the last time my ex pushed for him to see him and this was 6 months after my son had come home so upset and I told my husband about how upset he was and how poor judgement he used is what he had said to our children, especially our young son who worries so much about me. At that time he told me to tell our son to "get over it!" and hung up the phone. The Christmas he told me to tell our son if he chooses not to come then he will get nothing for christmas from him or his parents (the father lives with his parents and has for the last 7 years. I did tell my son this which I thought might change his mind about wanting to go. He didnt. He said he didnt want anything from any of them anyway. He said they are all mean to him when he is there and all they do is put him in his room all day. Our son has ADHD and can be trying, but I have never needed to keep him in his room all day and I cant imagine that would be a great way to have a visit with the son you have only seen 6 days in a year! Nothing he does fosters a positive relationship with him. Rest assured if he would sign the papers and terminate his rights our son would be so happy because he wants his step father to be made his real father. He loves him dearly and I am not sure it isnt more because of how awful the relationship really is with his father or if it is just them and how well they get along. He is actually closer to him than he is me! I am very glad he has him. But mostly understand that this 9 year old cared NOTHING about not getting his presents and did not want them. He never got to bring anything home that they bought him in the past. Any gifts they gave him had to stay at their house only. He gave up on ever seeing any of his games and his playstations ever again. They were never really his to begin with. I have a grandchild now and a step son. That is something I am huge about just from my experience with my ex and his family. Any gifts I buy go home with them!! PERIOD. There is nothing worse to me than giving your child the playstation they have always wanted and then telling them that they cant take it home with him, especially since even when he visited often that was only 6 times a year at the most! I am just saying there are sometimes VERY good reasons the child doesnt want to go and visit and they are valid.
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Lilly Collette

August 30, 2010 at 5:23 am

May I voice my sincere gratitude that my husband has never had any children. While I do have sympathy for others in this type of situation I am happy that I don't have a dog in this fight.
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lea

September 6, 2010 at 11:16 am

My situation is a bit different but am looking for advise. My ex and I started out with a custody battle. Our son was 13 (we both had children from previous marriage, all whom are adults now). My son was being very rebellious that first summer, dad would talk to me like a dog and my son would hardly acknowledge me. Around Aug. that year my ex had an argument with my son and told him not to come back until he cut his hair. Please note, prior to filing for divorce my ex took the child in for at least 80% of his hair cuts. I asked the ex if we could meet somewhere to discuss the situation and at first he agree to a place and time and then called back and said that I assumed that he had time to talk to be but he had things to do. I don't know what really happened but I think that there were some respect issues and some issues with the new girlfriend and my son. Fast forward 2 years, son and I get along better, but still have issues. Let me add that my mother always trash talked my dad after they divorced so I go out of my way to NOT saying anything bad about my ex and have encourage their relationship. Dad has only seen our son a hand full of times since and this summer has started to visit with him about once a month. I let him visit whenever they work something out. My issue is this: my ex refuses to speak with me and goes through our 15 year old son to arrange visits. I have a hard time getting times as to when he will be picking him up and dropping him off and just today he showed up about 50 minutes early. It was not a big deal but I am tired of being walked on and what this is teaching our son. I am afraid that if I address the issue the ex will make negative comments to me to our son, it wouldn't be the first time, and cause friction between us. I am torn between saying nothing and just dealing with his inconsiderate ways or addressing it with him and if he is still being difficult telling him he can work with the visitation schedule that HE put together. This would hurt our son because I am pretty sure that our son is not welcome at the girlfriends home that my ex lives in. Any advise?
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Amelie

September 6, 2010 at 10:00 pm

Also calling B#llsh!t! My two daughters live in a different state than their father; he doesn't abuse them physically. He is entitled to visitation several times a year. He has not exercised it in years. He has called the girls twice this year. In his last conversation he blamed me for him not seeing them and said he wanted to see them, they said they didn't feel comfortable seeing him after not seeing him or speaking to him for so long. When they were younger (now teenagers), I did everything I could to forge a relationship between them, but at their age they see he does not email, call, visit or pay for them to visit. They want nothing to do with him (I played no part in their decision). I couldn't possibly force them to see him when he is having one of his fast fleeting 'father moments'. All he does is disappear from their lives. They don't know him, so I wouldn't force them to go with a stranger, neither would I force them to see him knowing how damaging that would be for them.
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Gregory Forman

September 7, 2010 at 9:00 pm

Amelie: Yours is not the situation I had in mind while writing this blog. Clearly a father who disappears and reappears into his children’s lives is not the type of father who should be blaming the mother when the children don’t want to visit. I was thinking more of the cases in which the children have a good relationship with their father until their parents separate and a bad relationship thereafter. I see such cases quite frequently and the consequences are tragic.
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AR Robinson

October 2, 2010 at 6:26 pm

I agree with MJ Goodwin that there should not be a broad brush approach. Not all non-custodial parents have the best interest of the children at heart.
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Chelsie

February 3, 2011 at 5:06 am

I have a 12 year old son and an X husband that will not communicate with me over anything relative in my son's life, nor be truthful. I live 4 hours from my son and get him during vacations, not my choice. I know my son enjoys his visits with me. Court has allowed him to have one out a year to not visit, He is "telling" he is outing spring break and he will talk to me later about the other vacations. Here is what I think. CUSTODIAL parent should not give the child the choice to visit other parent. This should not be an option. His choices should be respectfully considered but decisions that should be made by an adult should not be left for the child to make. This last summer with court order that he be with me, officers were called to support my son and his father ...4 times this last summer I went and proseeded to beg my son as if I were the child and he the adult for him to spend time with me. I have not seen a ounce of support from his father nor has he encouraged my son to have a relationship with me. By his actions I think they are reflected onto my son and he should require that he visit his mother so I can not help but think much of it is the custodial parents responsibility in seeing visitations are followed through with.
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shannon

February 3, 2011 at 7:11 pm

I have a 6 year old who refuses to see his father, to the point he hinds and makes him self sick by getting so upset this has gone on for 4 years. His father on the other hand has never truly spent time with to get to know him even thou he takes him every other weekend and 3 weeks during the summer. This past summer our son was so upset to come home he started scratching at his own legs in order to get thru to his dad he wanted to come home. His fathers interest lie in me he uses our son as a pawn when he has him to get to me. I have now signed him for counseling to get to the underling problem as to why he doesnt want to go. we are going to court soon again i am trying to reduce the visits till after therepy hopefully. In my mind as a custodial parent i can not create the bond that they they need to build nore can i build that trust he needs with his dad that in my eyes should be up to him to do as a father.
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Tkay

February 8, 2011 at 3:04 am

Indeed MJ you are correct. Every case will be different, as different as the children are themselves. Out of three of my children the eldest was most able to stand up to her controlling father. The other two took a little longer but eventually they did too. Court ensued, the truth finally came out and their father handed me full custody as he was unable and unwilling to address the drinking problem that so plagued the children. The Judge held him accountable for what he had done to them and ordered him to address it with hope of regaining his children. Our Judges are extremely clever people who have seen it all before and can usually spot a liar at 20 paces, I respect their knowledge immensley. Looking back I should've taken them all when I left not done the 50/50 thing but I didn't want to fight my children if they wanted to see him. One by one they left him and one by one I supported them. Of course I have been accused of stopping them from seeing him but this is simply untrue and bothers me not in the least. I understand this blog is about the topic of letting children choose where they live. If we have raised honest, open, clear communicating children then don't we, as a community, owe it to them to listen to them?
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Tkay

February 8, 2011 at 3:15 am

Here here Dan.
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Courtney

April 9, 2011 at 3:21 pm

I am newly married, for almost a year now and my husband has a son from a previous relationship. From a relationship that was over way before I met him, but once the mother the custodial parent found out that he married someone (me) she up and disappeared for months, changed her phone number completely snatched his son out of his life. This went on with no contact or anything for about three months and when she was ready to ask for money she contacts him and asks for money but still wont allow my husband to see his son. No vistitation or child support payments are court orders as of yet. I advised my husband to himself on child support and file for visitation because she isnt civil at all. Its sad, because sometimes it is the custodial parent and it hurts me so becuase I am a product of this myself when my parents were divorced.
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James

April 15, 2011 at 1:24 pm

Me soon to be ex moved out in July of last year. She left without any forwarding address or contact info. She took my 9 year old daughter with her. Had a temporary hearing where it was voluntary visitation and child support. I was unemployed at the time. The mediator said it was a case of Parental Alienation. My ex has not promoted any realationship with my daugher. All my ex says is that my daughter does not want to see me. There is a history of mental illness in her family. It's pretty sad when someone continues to lie to the court and her attorney. When we were together I was the main caregiver for the child. I am now going to take my ex back to court to become primary custodian of my daughter. I believe a child should have both parents in there life. It is the responsibility of the primary custodian to facilitate that relationship. Children are easily influenced by who they are around everyday.
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Dawn

September 7, 2011 at 12:15 pm

How is my husband suppose to "force" a 13 year old child to get on a bus with her mother when she doesn't want to go?Pick her up?Drag her?Excuse me,why should he be the one doing it?Let her mother drag her.The non custodial mother has already accused him of being violent.Yes she will do her chores and if dad or I (her step mother) tell her too.She will go to bed or do her homework.We have taught all our children that they have responsibilities just as we all do.We have also taught her to do what is RIGHT not what is easy.She has reasons for not seeing her mother and they are between her mother and her.We do encourage her to talk to her mother and to see her mother.She chooses not too.In time she many be ready to,but for right now her decision is made.How can we tell her not to let people bully her then turn around and bully her into doing what she feels is WRONG.Not "not gonna eat my veggies" wrong,allowing someone who betrayed you,lied to you and about you,to dictate your life wrong.As was said before it is the responsibility of the non custodial parent to fix the relationship.He and I have no control over their relationship nor would we want any. How do you think it feels to be a child who knows that if they do not go with this person,who for what ever reason they do not want to be around,their custodial parent will be punished?I can tell you how it feels cause I was there.It is standing in front of the nastiest BULLY you have ever had to face.One who can put you parent in jail if you will not sacrifice yourself.Let me tell you it doesn't make one too fond of lawyers or judges at all.
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Cheryl

December 9, 2011 at 3:36 am

Here's what I can tell you...when my husband and I went to pick up his kids one day, they were 9 and 11, they refused to get into the car and go with us. After several minutes of listening to my husband try to reason with the kids, I told him to just leave it. That we would call our attorney in the morning. Come to find out, I did the right thing. Evidently in this state, if you so much as lay a hand on a child at that age, they can have you arrested for unwanted touching as well as assault. There's not much you can do. Not unless you want to run the risk of going to jail. Yup...that always look good in a hearing for visitation. The attorney said it would have played right into the hands of their mother and that in all likelihood, that's exactly what she was hoping for. Now we're dealing with our 7 1/2 year old grandson. And he hates seeing his father. And my daughter's boyfriend is not better. I made a police report, but she lied and told them I was telling the child what to say about his father and her boyfriend. That couldn't be further from the truth. Now, all I can tell him, is just try to hang in there, that in just a couple of years, he'll be able to say no to all of it. We live in a state without grandparents rights, so I have to be very careful how I handle things so as not lose contact with him as we are his only safe place to fall. He's a sweetie pie and I wouldn't trade that little guy for the world. I'm up this late because I'm researching legal rights of 7/8 year olds. So far, not finding much of anything. I have to find him something.....
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Tracey

December 15, 2011 at 4:08 pm

My stepdaughter is 14. She told my husband that she wants to live with us. My husband and his ex-wife have alternating week custody. If my stepdaughter refuses to go with her mom, how is my husband supposed to force her into the car with her mom? At some point a parent cannot force their child to go with the other parent without causing physical and emotional damage. We have encouraged her to talk to her mom about her feelings in order to work things out. But at the end of the day, if she decides not to go, how can we make her?
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brandy

December 15, 2011 at 9:53 pm

i would like to find a support group for those of us parents whom have done the right thing and still get punished...my son was only 1 wheni divirced m y ex..married the love of my life and he has raised my son as his own. My son is now 11 and doesn't want anything to do with his bio father..we just recently had a court hearing where he was trying to find me in contempt of the visatation order becasue in winter of 08 he ahd a warrent issued for his arrest, hid out from it until christmas of 2010 served sixth months and a day after he got out had me served w papers...well the judge saw right through him, found me not guilty but did want us to try visatation again...i am having my attorneys to file modification so the visits can be supervised but have to let my son go until we can get before the judge again...my ex is honestly a worthless person, owes me well over $20,000 in child support, has a really bad drug problem and anger issues and i really feel something needs to be changed in the system...we have begged him to allow my husband to adopt my son but of course he says i will fight you on it ...it's fine we can go spend all this money and win in the end becasue i truly fill the best interest of the child is to be with me, his stepdad whom he calls his dad not the ex and 3 sisters...he has had any contact with my ex in over three years and now i am forced to through him into the loins den...i am just praying to god we get a quick court date and can finally rid my ex of the little rights he has still left...no job, no car, no dl, no house of his own muches off of his sisters and that is not someone i would call a responsible parent....and the drug problem is bad he has even admitted it to my husband on several occasions....so i just would like to find a support group or someone i can talk to about this that maybe has been in this situation before...thank so much and looking forward to talking with someone!
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single mom

December 19, 2011 at 8:41 am

Please be aware that your generalization makes life more difficult for those of us who parent the children of disinterested non-custodial parents, especially when read by those who have limited or no experience with disinterested non-custodial parents. My daughter frequently gets upset because her father never calls her (even though she has her own cell and he does not in any way have to go through me) - and rarely returns her phone calls. He declines his visitation instead of taking responsibility for taking her to extra-curricular activities (yet he expects me to shoulder all of this responsibility and forego my fun time with her so that he can see her at his convenience.) Why is it that non-custodial parents are NEVER charged with contempt when they fail to take their child during court-ordered times just because it is inconvenient? This abdication of responsibility puts additional stress, expense and responsibility on the custodial parent - who would rather assume these extras than send their child into a situation where he/she is not wanted. Children know when they feel loved and wanted. I firmly believe that when a parent is working to make a child feel loved and wanted they will develop a relationship that the other parent can not interfere with. It broke my heart when she asked me why her dad doesn't love her. I encouraged her to talk to him about it. There is nothing that I can say or do influence her perception of his actions. Something changed and he finally made the effort to trave 25 minutes to get her from an activity and take her to her best friend's birthday. When I pointed out how this was a positive thing, she got mad at me. Unfortunately, not all non-custodial parents understand the responsibilities of parenting, or if they understand, choose to abdicate these responsibilities because they can. By the time a child is a teenager, the parent-child relationship is set. Why shouldn't a child be allowed to choose which parent he/she wants to spend time with - especially if the child is doing well in school and staying out of trouble.
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voice of experience

January 11, 2012 at 9:04 pm

Are you serious? You would rather see a child subjected to short term abuse while the therapist gets to the bottom of the matter than take the custodial's parent's word?? Please, please enlighten yourself to the nightmare of the emotional abuser. An Emotional Abuser leaves no physical scars. Instead, they can destroy one's ability to function on an emotional level in no time at all. Emotionally abusive parents will do anything and everything to interfere with a successful relationship with a therapist, successful relationship with custodial parent, relationships with siblings, friends and extended family in order to control that child's thoughts, words and deeds. Emotional abusers are master manipulators who use thinly veiled threats to control their children. They maintain a Jekyll and Hyde demeanor to keep everyone on edge. All emotional abusers put forth an image (front) designed to present positive image of themselves and their family. Misery for them and everyone involved is far better than failure or loss of control. Emotionally abusive parents due the most damage when given time alone with their child. This is the worst possible scenerio for that child. The child is defenseless to disagree for fear of angering the parent and generally has no safe place to get away from or gain privacy from that parent. To suggest that the custodial parent is the instigator in preventing children from visiting their noncustodial parent without looking at each situation on a case by case basis shows a total lack of regard for the family involved. In cases where a child has a good relationship with the noncustodial parent, there is little that the custodial parent can possibly do to convince their children to remain away. When a child is hesitant to leave with the noncustodial parent, then for heaven's sake, sit up and listen. It's time to take notice and give validation to the child's concern. To do anything less is irresponsible. Tweenagers are far more insightful than you seem willing to give credit. Kids know when they are being treated fairly as well as mistreated. What kids don't know is who they can trust and believe. If I have succeeded in at least prompting you to possibly rethink your position, then I will consider that a success : )
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voice of experience

January 11, 2012 at 9:37 pm

Though certain your court date has long sensed past, may I suggest you stop playing the victim. To maintain a true connection and sincere relationship with your daughter even at this distance, use the gifts of electronics. Skype her regularly or use Face Time if you both have Ipads. Though not present in person, you certainly can be together through this use of technology. The positive outcome of this is the undeniable documentation of your presences regularly and your attempts to connect. Any back and forth email conversations between you and your child, especially if it's glowing after a face to face visit, may be used to further support any favorable changes in child visitation. Ultimately though, what you are really aiming for is her desire to come stay with you not because it's a court order but because she loves you, loves being with you and is there voluntarily. That way, when she turns 18 and has no legal obligation to visit whatsoever, she will continue to do so simply because you are that important to her. I think that we as parents some how think we 'own' our kids or that they our kids "owe us" for all that we have done during their childhood. The reality is that none of our children choose to be here, nor did they select you as their parent. Though for a period of time, you are legally obligated to provide for that child, a child is never legally obligated to be grateful for what they have been given. Just remember parenting a child is not a right, it is a privilege. If your child has distanced him/herself from you, regardless the reason then show them how important they are in your life and how much their involvement in yours means to you. Actions speak far louder than words. :-)
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Erin

January 12, 2012 at 12:05 pm

I wanted to give an update. We went to court on the contempt charge my husband filed against me. I wasn't able to get an attorney due to my husband being laid off and me with only disability as an income. He had the same attorney he has had in several hearings where he was found in contempt by the AG office for not paying child support at times for years. The judge appointed me an attorney due to the jail time being involved. That attorney spoke to me and our daughter from the marriage who is a 20yo, married with a 6 month old of her own. After speaking to her he had the full picture and asked for a continuance. He said he couldnt represent me but helped me type up the motion to file with the associate judge to modify the visitation to being supervised only by the court and to modify custody to me having sole custody instead of joint in the interest of the child. I filed it and we had our court hearing earlier this month. I still had no attorney and had to do it on my own against him having one. Well I got everything I asked for. After testimony where my ex lied repeatedly. After the last hearing where he saw my daughter there he sent her and her daughter (who he has also never seen) a birthday/Christmas present. He sent it to our home where she lives with us and her brother. When I brought this up and then asked him what he sent his son for Christmas he stated he "donated a bicycle in his name). When asked for a receipt for these bicycles (he claims he did this for the last 3 years) he of course had none. Even though he actually saved a receipt for a $7.00 shirt he bought our son at one of his rare visits and gave it to the judge to knock of his 13K support arrears. I was lucky to have an informal judge as well as one that saw through his lies. I was asking the court to require counseling with him and our son and ONLY when the counselor believes that it will be emotionally safe for or son to be forced if necessary to go will he have court supervised visits. Also, I asked that HE pay for it. His father actually stated he thought it was crazy and that he felt he just needed to take him to a ballgame and it would all be fixed. I said no..that might have fixed it had he had the where with all to do this 3 years ago when the whole thing happened. But then a phone call was too much to do. He is now required to go to counseling and also go to counseling WITH our son. He is required to pay for both separate for both of them as well as counseling together with a particular counselor that specializes in ADHD children and children from "abusive parents". You see while she may have listened to me and believed me, she had to weigh that with the fact that we have a poor relationship. However, she could see clearly that our daughter was telling 100% the truth and even when it contradicted her fathers testimony. Since she is an adult, she felt her own opinion about the relationship her brother had with his father held a lot of weight. Also because she was there and saw it first hand. She said that once the counselor felt enough progress had been made that our son would be "comfortable" in the presence of his father she would allow court supervised visits. When he asked how long that would go on. Her answer was "As long as it takes for your client to learn how to treat his children in a nurturing way and how to speak to them in their presence. Your client set this all in motion with his own behavior with his children. Your client has charged the mother with parental alienation. I have only heard testimony of alienation practiced on his part by his statements to his children about the mother." He is also having to go to a 3 month parenting class. The thing is, I was told by his attorney while we were waiting in the hall for court to start once he saw I had no attorney and was pro se, that he would be sending me the requests for visitation following the hearing and the police would be at our home if required. Yes, that is how you make a kid go to dad's! Threaten him or his mom with jail! Why not make a phone call to him instead? That he never even tried. The attorney assumed that me on my own was no threat. The thing I had on my side was the TRUTH. He never even alleged a single time in his contempt action of ONE TIME that I turned him away for visitation. Why? Because he never even tried to pick him UP. I had plenty of witnesses to prove that he didnt. This is just being posted as a follow up. We still have the follow up contempt hearing to go to later this month where I DO have an attorney. That one doesnt worry me at all. The judge we went before actually wrote on the recs that "Based on testimony given by the father, mother and witnesses the father abandoned his son. Due to emotional abuse on the fathers part as well as negative statements regarding the mother, visitation is being suspended pending intense counseling for the child and parenting classes for the father. If Father follows ALL of counselors recommendations will visitation begin. Visits are to be court supervised till court deems no longer necessary" I learned several things. One, telling the NC parent on the phone the child wont go is NOT contempt. Before it can even be CONSIDERED contempt (and this is subjective on the courts part) the NC parent must actually come to your home to pick the child up. I also learned that even without an attorney if you are there before the court, have the truth on your side as well as many witnesses and make sure you have a few impartial ones you CAN get justice. Keep ALL communication between you. One of the things that helped me the most was an email between us regarding the Christmas directly following the final straw between my ex and our son. It was dated, but mostly it was proof of what was happening AT THAT TIME in lieu of me telling the court what happened 3 years later. The judge actually commented on that. I even told the judge that I was fully agreeable and even requesting our son to be interviewed by court services. If this was something she felt necessary to clarify anything I would be glad to make him available. My ex's attorney even made an argument about my ex having to pay for the counseling. He felt that I should pay since I was the only one that felt it necessary. This really ticked off the judge because she said "Actually it isn't JUST the mother. I believe it is necessary as well. The mother had nothing to do with the deterioration of the parent/child relationship. That rests on your clients shoulders and therefore the cost does as well." Don't give up guys. If there is a VALID reason for the child not visiting the NC parent forcing the child to go is NOT the answer. If there is a breakdown between the NC parent and child and it is something that CAN be fixed, offer to have the NC and child go to counseling. Send it in WRITING. This shows that YOU as the CP are in fact doing all you can to help. It isnt our responsibility to FORCE the child to go, but it is our responsibility to use our influence to help heal the rift as well as heal the child. I know my ex won't be a part of the counseling based on past experience. He will do as he always has and walk away. I am however, after talking to the counselor the judge recommended and finding his insurance will cover it, taking our son there for his OWN benefit. I don't think it will heal the rift between them, but I feel it isn't healthy for our son to hate him either. I want to make sure he knows and understands that he deserved to be treated better. I am going to find a way to make this a positive thing for our son, one way or another. With or without the help of his father.
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voice of experience

January 12, 2012 at 12:29 pm

Yea! Erin! I am so glad to read that the judge in your case was able to bring out your ex's true colors.
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Erin

January 12, 2012 at 5:47 pm

Thank you! I was as well. I was terrified having never even been in a trial or hearing before, much less doing it pro se! I am very lucky I had an ex that showed his arrogance. When I said before he is a narcissist, I mean a pathological one. I knew not long after we married his thinking was wrong but they can be very good at making you think they are ok. That and I wanted to believe it. It was my mistake and I hate that my children had to pay the price as well. I was afraid but I knew one thing for sure. He would be able to maintain his composure as long as his attorney questioned him. However, when I was the one doing it, I had a feeling he would show his true colors and he did. Between his attitude, obvious lies and our daughters testimony the judge would have had to ignore a lot to rule in his favor. I hoped for the best, but I was surprised by how well she got the situation and made sure he knew it. We still have the follow up hearing with a different judge. I am not worried though. The attorney I spoke to said that it had no merritt before I had the other hearing and now based on the ruling in the other court even less. What is sad is the fact that he will see this as an assault on him rather than a wake up call to do right by his child. If it were me, I would be there at each and ever counseling session doing whatever I could do work things out. I have raised 5 children. All but my youngest are grown. We all had times where things were rough. Times they hated me I am sure when they were teenagers. Giving up was just never an option. Even when they wouldnt speak to me, I would just keep telling them I loved them and was here when they were ready to talk. When one of my daughters was really going off the straight and narrow, I had left that very message on her cell each and every day till finally she WAS ready and we worked it all out. It CAN be done. Easy..NO..but then nothing worth while ever really is.
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Manxman

January 13, 2012 at 5:17 pm

Greg: Your blog really describes my situation to tee. I have three children ages 15, 13 and 12. When my wife and I told the children about our impending divorce, my wife used the opportunity to blame it all on me, saying that she didn't want a divorce, it was all "your father's choice", etc. The two older children immediately began rejecting me. (background: wife is a fundamentalist Christian who has home-schooled kids for the past eight years. (I am Catholic) Kids have been brought up to believe that divorce is "evil" and that only selfish, self-centered parents get divorces. Wife had resisted my insistence on ending homeschooling and other significant child-rearing issues. I was very concerned that my children were being raised in a very insular environment with a marked distrust for the outside world. Our frequent clashes over these issues ultimately led to my decision to end the marriage.) Once I moved out of the house, the two older children refused to have any contact with me. when I would call the house, nobody would answer. When someone would answer, once they heard my voice they would hang up the phone. My younger child tells me that this is done with mom's knowledge and no punishment. I have been lied to about the existence of children's cell phones (I've been told they don't exist) and e-mail addresses. The only way to contact the children is to physically drive over to the house unannounced but that's no guarantee since my wife meet me at the door and tell me the children don't want to see me. The younger child would come to see me and spend time with me and all was good. (in fact, his insistence on having a good relationship with me has put him at odds with his siblings as well as his mother and, for the last month, he has been living with me full time) However, when it became apparent to me that my wife was not encouraging a continuing relationship between me and the two older children, I filed a request for the court to appoint minors counsel who in turn crafted a temporary visitation plan calling for alternating weekends and midweek visitations along with reunification therapy. My younger child gladly comes to see me. However, the older two almost universally refused to obey the visitation order and have expressed outright contempt for me as well as the court, minors counsel and the reunification therapist. Mom, who heretofore has been able to make the kids do whatever she wanted with a stern glance, would just stand there, shrug her shoulders and say that she couldn't make them obey. It was all for show---a big act. Mom even hijacked the reunification therapy. The court order made me responsible for picking up the kids and taking them to therapy. As you might expect, the two older children refused to get in my car. Minors counsel told mother that she was responsible for bringing the children to therapy unless they got in the car, obviously thinking that this would force her to read to children the riot act. However, it appears that this is what she had in mind all along: controlling transportation to and from the sessions. The kicker came with a trumped up child abuse claim which was investigated by CPS. Shortly after Mom's CPS complaint, mom unilaterally deviated from the visitation plan and told our youngest child "you're going to live with your father" . Apparently our youngest was being accused of being "a traitor" for agreeing to continue his weekend visitation with me even though his sibling and the mother had accused me of child abuse. Sending one child to live with the parent that she was accusing of abuse was not lost on the CPS investigator who told minors counsel that if mom pursued the complaint, she would recommend that custody of all three children be given to me. After four months of almost no visitation and a bogus child abuse report to CPS, I had finally had enough and asked for a full custody evaluation. Minors counsel, who originally poo-pooed my initial complaints of parental alienation, now believes that mom is actively working against reunification. Having said that, mom is very smart and manipulative and is careful not to be overt in her alienation. my two older children are, unfortunately, willing accomplices. During therapy sessions they he expressed opinions that I have heard my wife express 100 times in different contexts. The children's mouths are moving, but it's her voice that I'm hearing. I am now looking at a $20,000 custody evaluation which, at the end of the day, will likely mirror the visitation plan crafted by minors counsel at the beginning with no guarantee that the children will obey the recommendations. However, the evaluation report will likely make some concrete findings with respect to mom's alienating objectives/conduct. At the hearing where the judge ordered the custody evaluation, the judge even raised the specter of dependency court if the children refused to obey. Minors counsel told me in private that he was not in favor of recommending that I have full custody of the two older children----not because I am a bad parent, but because he is fearful that they will continue to make false abuse claims against me. He did tell the judge that the two older children express opinions that "one generally sees being voiced by a spouse going through a divorce, not a child...", i.e. "he abandoned us... he doesn't deserve us... when he made the decision to divorce mom, he divorced all of us... he forfeited his family....if he really loved us he wouldn't have left us". The remedies seem pretty straightforward when a custodial parent is overtly interfering with visitation. The "plausible deniability" strategy is much more insidious.
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Jennybee

February 4, 2012 at 4:16 pm

I have read many of these blogs and find it interesting that there are good parents in the situation and there are bad parents in the situation. I filed for divorce before my daughter was born because my husband did not want children. After my daughter was born the only important thing to my ex-husband was not paying too much child support. He willing gave me sole legal and sole physical custody of our daughter in exchange for a child support amount that was only about 25% of what he should have been paying. He didn't see her for more than 2 years after that. When she was 2 1/2 y/o, he threatened to kidnap her to Mexico, I placed a restraining order on him and we went back to court. The court was going to make him pay the full child support, so again he offered to me sole legal and sole physical custody in exchange for dropping the restraining order and a low child support amount. From that point the court ordered anger management, parenting classes and CPR classes since my daughter has severe asthma. The ex-husband began to visit infrequently, but, nontheless, visit. I never bad mouthed him or talked down to him. I never discouraged the relationship. When my daughter turned 9, the ex-husband starting calling her directly and asking her about visitation, if she wanted him to visit or not. Sometimes she would agree and sometimes she would say no. Fast forward to 2010, my daughter is 10 and I have lost my job. I asked the ex-husband for more support and he laughed so I took him back to court. He is married to an attorney so they announced, when the judge forced him to pay the full amount, that they would be seeking custody of the child. Now here we are in 2012 and the court is granting, after 12 years, shared custody. The relationship between him and my daughter has always been a strained one. When I offered suggestions on how to improve the relationship to the ex-husband, he told me to butt out. My daughter is beside herself with worry and grief over having to now go to visit him every other week after 12 years of not having to. The ex-husband treated her like an adult and allowing her decisions but now I have to force her to do something because a court has told her she has no decision. I am accused of parent alienation because he was a "passive participant" in our daughter's life, but the court doesn't see that he gave up the relationship because he didn't want to pay money to help me with her. I believe this whole concept of parent alienation is a title that the justice system uses to make excuses for a "passive parent" to all of a sudden wake up, smell the coffee, and realize "hey, I think now I am ready to be a good parent". The courts don't realize the damage they do to a child. Children do see when they are loved and when they are an inconvenience and no matter that the court says they think it is in the childs best interest, they don't really know and that is the courts way of saying, he, let there be 50/50 so that we can seem fair and not at fault.
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Susan Vescera

February 7, 2012 at 3:34 pm

I too have read these messages and I have to say for the most part I would agree about a child/children visiting the other parent-but it is not always in the best interest of the child. We are in the middle of a big mess now and its because our son does not want to visit his biological mother, his reasons? She insists that he has asthma and has to take medicine for it, she insists that he had pnuemonia (hospital records refute that diagnosis) and called CPS because we were withholding his medicine from him- She got some behaviour evaluation company to examine him and told them he had "Mental Problems" and was Handicaped-all of which can be verified otherwise. In five years she has called CPS twice on us-case is now marked Child Custody Battle and they will no longer respond to her on this issue, and the local police 3 times making accusations that again can be verified otherwise. She is living with a woman partner out in the middle of nowhere and he is a 15 year old who has never lived in that kind of a situation and is not interested in changing now. The biological mother will also tell you she has 1. Lupus, 2. M.S, 3. Scolioisis and Cancer all at the same time-none of which has been diagnosed by a Medical Doctor, she goes on line and looks up symptoms and self diagnosis herself she works periodically as a vet tech and will help herself to the medicines there-of course we don't have written proof but when she was with the childs father she would bring them home and take them. In addition to all of this she is a "proclaimed" psychic, she can talk to trees and they talk back, she talks to animals and they also talk back, she communicates with ghosts that have been in every house she ever lived in including a brand new one that was just built. I can keep going on but you get the point, NOT all cases are the same and NOT children need to be subjected to this kind of thing-and for the record she does take him out to her Psychic Healing Fairs, and Tarot Readings. We are headed back to court and hopefully this time the judge will listen to the facts and truth and not what she thinks they should hear.
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Babs

April 2, 2012 at 11:50 pm

I have a question... I have a 13.5yo son that refuses to go with his dad for visitation. They never had much of a realtionship when the ex and I were married. Matter of fact, dad never paid much attention to the son, well that is until the divorce. At that time, the ex started to try to do more with the son. One day, about 6mo after the ex moved out, my son flat out refused to go for his weekend visitation, citing that he hated his dad. Was visibly upset, crying and face beet red. I asked the ex to leave after an hour of questioning the boy as to why he felt this way. Eventually my son cried himself to sleep. A couple of weeks later, I had an appointment with a psychologist. He diagnosed my son with depression and anxiety. For 10 months we worked with the therapist. During that time dad only came to a couple sessions. It was advised we back off the overnight visits and dad should try visit with hopes of getting son to talk/communicate with him. There were maybe three times he came over. I had an open door policy ~he could come over anytime. He was invited to birthday dinners (son & step-daughter), Christmas, etc. We finally got the boy convinced in December 2011 to go for an overnight (girlfriends kids were there). This went ok. Then the ex decided he wanted to take him to g&g house for four days before Christmas, again th kids were there so it was ok. We got through January with weekend visits, and suddenly son refuses to go again. In January I took him to a psychiatrist to be put on medication for depression/anxiety. No the ex has taken me to court mediation for visitation contempt, we tried to work out a schedule, yet son refuses to go. The next step was to call CPS to complain the he had been to the dr thirty times in two years. And he hadn't been to the dentist in over a year. Yes the doc number is right. He's had gastro problems, pneumonia twice, ear infections, and ingrown toenails three times. Most if not all of these visits have required rechecks. Also other random doc visits. Now I've received another notice for a court hearing for contempt of court. All of this in less than thirty days. I have always encouraged a relationship with the father. I can't physically force the child to go, and dad certainly won't. I've taken away freedom, prized possessions, bribed, conned, and anything else I can think of to get him to go. The kids gets physically I'll when dads around...headache, diarrhea, upset stomach. I should also mention the last time he went to dads in February, he tried to leave and walk home because dad wouldn't return him prior to his drop off time. Dad called the police, and they brought him to my home. I am at my wits end. Dad and the therapist think he is just displaying defiant behavior. I don't have a problem in any are besides dad. I do want them to build a relationship, I can't figure out how. Any advice?
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Lola

April 9, 2012 at 1:32 am

Good for you, Dan. You're absolutely right.
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Lola

April 9, 2012 at 1:37 am

A child's opinion is important. Ask the custodial parent if you can talk to the child about why they don't want to see you.
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Erin

April 9, 2012 at 1:33 pm

Babs, Boy does my heart go out to you! I have posted previously. I have a son with mod/severe ADHD and completely understand how hard it is to make a child do things when they are that set in refusal. The most difficult question in your situation is the "why". Why is he so set in not going. If Dad is doing nothing that would harm him and it sounds like Dad is really trying here. I know you are doing all you can too. First, you cannot be in contempt if you are doing all you can and it sounds like you are. Unfortunately, if dad is not doing anything to cause this reaction from son, someone must reach him to make him understand he must obey the law. If not, your problems will only grow. You mentioned "kids" get physically ill when dads around. If this son is not able to adequately explain the feelings he has toward dad, maybe one of the others can? I guess what I am saying is if ALL of them are having a strong reaction like that, you may be able to learn why through a child that is better able to express what is happening. If he is not doing anything to cause this reaction something must be done to help it. The thing is at your son's age, (I have raised 5 children all grown now but my youngest who is 12) they do defy STRONGLY. Sometimes for no other valid reason than they do not want to do it or have something else they wish to do. At his age, if he is not expressing an accusation of abuse (a valid one) then it sounds more like defiance. If there was abuse, at his age he would be well able to tell you. It could have to do with the GF and her kids even. He may have an issued with them. One that developed in his last visit. My strongest suggestion is document document document... Take him to each and every counseling session and do everything you can. Dad should be in counseling with him as well. The judge in our case ordered finial counseling. It is with a counselor that specializes in ADHD children. I would shop around. This type of counseling is geared to the parent being very involved in the process. In my case Dad never bothered with coming as I knew would happen. The good thing is son is getting help to express how he feels and can work through them. I feel for you. Sometimes when dealing with that age, the more you push the more the dig in their heels. That is why I would press more counseling. Have him there with Dad as well. Good luck
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Teele

April 16, 2012 at 1:06 am

Off the record, my 13 yr old girl doesnt want to go home with her dad who is banging on my door. I have tried for the last 2 hours to get her to co-operate to go with him. She has begged him to let her stay. (she can't stand living with him), but he has pulled some "fast ones" and got full custody. She lived withe since I left in March 2008 til Feb. 2011 and would not stay over night at his house. Both the therapist and the nutritionist (court ordered-even though she had been losing weight during the 6 months prior to Feb 2011 and has gained 30 lbs since he took her) both have tried to convince him to allow her to live with me. I didn't let him in because I felt she was too distressed, though I encouraged her to get dressed and go with him. Question is what is the right thing to do? And what course will he take? (although I think she is safe there, she has told me and Kent Tousaint, the therapist that she doesn't feel safe there. Also I explained to Karen (13yr old) that I would prefer that she sleep at her dads because of all the work I have. She refused. Sorry to bother you (you can bill me for a response) but we're scared emotionally. He is still here and called the police. Then what?
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tim

April 19, 2012 at 9:13 am

I have 2 questions, would it be possible for a child at the age of 12 not have a to go to the non custodial parent for visits if the child was being Verbaly Abused and the child was always getting ate up by bed bugs, the non custodial parent has lived in an unclean Environment for the past 4 years and has had Dog and Cat feces on the floor of her home, I tried talking to her about her issues but she will not cooperate with me, her home smells really bad and the children do not want to go back to their mothers, I had found out that recently that if the kids bring back the bed bugs to my apartment that I could get evicted and have to pay $300.00 for them to get rid of the bugs, so could I be held in contempt for not letting the children go back to their mothers? I had made every attempt to let her see the kids until she got rid of her bugs.
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Teele

April 19, 2012 at 11:09 am

Ok so the police were just here and took our daughter who was sleeping and they told her to get up and dressed that if she didn't they might have to take her into protective custody, that they could take mom to jail. How hard would it have been for the author of this site to respond and to tell me that was a possibility and save me that experience?
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Erin

April 19, 2012 at 4:10 pm

Teele, I obviously cannot speak for the attorney here, but in a case as yours the police have discretion in how they handle things. He does have custody of her and a legally enforceable document for them to act as they did. I know you had to know this. Your only recourse would be to go to court and get custody changed. That is the ONLY recourse you have. She had to know that she cannot just make up her own rules. This isnt a case of you having custody and her refusing to go for a visit. This is a case of her refusing to go home. Totally different LEGALLY. Not saying either is right. Just that the custodial parent has much more standing with the police to take action. They could have charged you with parental kidnapping. You need to go to court. You need to file a motion in the court. You should be able to get a pretty fast hearing. I got mine within only a few weeks. This is enough of a change to allow this to happen AND with her age it is something the court would certainly listen to her own requests. After 12 the courts do consider the wishes of the child. It isnt a slam dunk but it is certainly considered. That with the support of her counselor should be a very compelling case. I know you are frustrated. I would be too. However, you need to get proactive if you want to change things. It sounds like your daughter is looking to you do to do this for her. She would still have to go and see him for visits but would be able to live at your home. At her age it is hard enough he may actually be ready to do it unless he is still so angry with you that he is more interested in putting it to you than caring about what his child needs. Unless there is a strong reason for the court to disagree with your daughter and her counselor, I would imagine the change would be allowed. Good luck to you. There is nothing more painful and frustrating than dealing with custody issues. I know from experience. Sincerely, Erin
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liz

June 10, 2012 at 6:49 pm

hey I have two grandchildren who confide in me, 7 and 10, they live with their father and love it, both children cry when they have to visit their mother, so I thought it was time to ask why? the children don't like their mothers boyfriend, who drinks, their mother spends no time with them when he is home, even after court orders not to he still lives in the house with them. their mother and her boyfriend have had a child together and they get shoved aside for the other child, when they are with her. the court ordered her no drinking around the children, and no boyfriend living with you, she does what she wants to do and has never listened to the judge. She and my son are not divorced yet, so she has committed adultry, she and her boyfriend drink and smoke around the children, she takes the children out of state without notifying my son for weeks and the children aren't supervised when with her, riding their bike in the street, swimming in the pool with no supervision. I can understand why the little things cry when they have to go stay with her. But people like you don't support the children, you pick someone else to blame, I thought the courts were made to protect children, but they aren't, it's people like you who support mandatory visitation and then say what a shame another little child was run over by a car or drowned in the pool. Children nowdays are very intelligent if they tell you they don't want to go to the noncustodial parents home then there must be a good reason, listen.
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Rachel

June 25, 2012 at 5:56 pm

I agree with Greg's assessment completely, as I have lived this first hand. My husband and I have three children from previous relationships; myself - twin six year old girls, my husband - one six year old boy. We also have a two year old son together. My husband has fought tooth and nail to see his son for the last three years. The mother has claimed all sorts of horrific things against my husband, including that he was a rapist, drug addict, and alcoholic (all proved false), all in attempt to keep him from having any contact with his son. Her reason? To keep her lucrative 2k per month child support. My husband endured thousands of dollars in lawyers fees, supervised visitation (at our expense), random alcohol tests (at our expense), and drug testing. All to get his son every other weekend and alternating holidays. His ex lied about the daycare costs in order to extort more money out of him via wage garnishment for the daycare add-on, and refused to turn over documents for six months showing how much the daycare really cost (it ended up being significantly less than she claimed). When we attempted to collect back the thousands of child support overpaid to her, she threatened to sue us for her attorney fees. I'm am relating all of this to establish a framework to show how extremely vindicative and manipulative this woman is. Recently, she started taking my husband's son to a therapist behind his back, alleging he was sexually abused. She did not inform my husband of this for over a month, in clear violation of my husband's rights for in accordance with joint legal custody. My husband, ever the good guy, attempted to work with her on this and join in the therapy sessions with his son, during which she withheld visitation for three months stating his son "did not want to see him". When me husband stated he was going to have his court order enforced, she filed an ex parte motion in retaliation, setting him up to look as if he was the abuser to the courts to get her motion granted with the aid of a therapist who is also her personal friend. Now my husband is forced to endure "supervised" visits by her, and she still insists that his son does not want to see him. However, I attended the last visit (which she did NOT like) and saw no evidence of anxiety. He laughed the whole time, was so excited to see his dad, and was talking non-stop. He voluntarily hugged him, held his hand, and wanted to be by his side the whole time. When the visit came to an end, he almost started crying and told his dad "he didn't want him to leave." Does this sound like a child who doesn't want to see his father. NO! But at six years of age, he is easily manipulated by his mother. Parental Alienation is all too real of a syndrome, especially when our courts make is so easy for mothers (and fathers, if primary custodian) to wield complete and total control over their children's fragile minds. My husband's ex has NEVER been supported of his relationship with his son; she has made it clear the only purpose my husband has served was to be a sperm donor and now a paycheck. She doesn't want him in his son's life, and is now trying to manipulate the courts, using their child as pawn, to remove my husband from his son's life yet again. I have seen firsthand the devastation and destruction a custodial parent can have on a child's relationship with a noncustodial parent, and it is definitely valid and all-too-real. (I have also been on the other side as well, as my twins' father was a deadbeat who didn't even bother showing up for the court date that granted me sole legal and physical custody. My husband ended up adopting my daughters when they were four years old, and he is the only dad they know. Recently, their bio father has come back into their life and I have encouraged them developing a relationship with him. So before anyone says otherwise, I have experience on both ends of the spectrum. And I know a good father from a bad one, as well as good custodial parent from a BAD custodial parent. And yes, they do exist).
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LIsa R.

July 17, 2012 at 2:06 pm

Why do you think that children need to have a good relationship with both parents whenever possible. If you a a 14 year old telling you that she doesn't want to go to dads, she hates it there. He never spends time just with her and he always has his girlfriend, her twin sister and husband and their two kids there every weekend that is their visiting weekend, why should she go. It obviously is not important enough to just have his daughter their to spend time with and actually get to know her, really get to know her. I will never force my children to go and try to develop a relationship when there is no common respect coming from the other side and taking into consideration what his daughter wants. We have another daughter that is 10 and she cries her eyes out when it comes the time to go with her dad. Why do think it is okay to put kids through this added emotional stress when as children in today's society there is enough stress that they have to deal with already. Children are not stupid and we as adults really need to start listening to them.
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Erin

July 17, 2012 at 5:24 pm

Rachel, I do not (at least sincerely hope not) think anyone including myself thinks for a minute there are not custodial parents that alienate the children from the non-custodial parent. My brother has actually experienced this and did not get to see his son for 8 years. It is a very real problem. I think what I and others like me are trying to say is that the courts need to be careful in this area to make sure that they are not putting the child in a situation that can be dangerous to them either physically or emotionally just to follow a blanket rule. We cannot place a single child into a situation that is possibly dangerous to them emotionally or physically. I realize that there are situations where custodial parents lie. I just cannot justify one single child being placed in a bad situation to prevent the other. The courts will be placed in a fact finding situation. However, till they can make absolutely sure that the situation is handled in a way that prevents damage to the child, they have the responsibility to err on the side of caution. This is why when I was in that situation I requested joint counseling before ANY visits would be reinstated. In my opinion this should be the gold standard in this situation. It will allow the parent/child relationship to be examined, promoted and give the court a better idea of the best direction to go in the best interest of the child. I further believe that if a parent is found to make numerous serious false allegations toward the other parent, custody should be amended immediately. In that situation it is the custodial parent that is the most damaging to the child. Not the non-custodial parent. If the cust parent is aware they would face such serious consequences, hopefully it would prevent them from going that direction. Then again, there has to be something pretty unstable to do that to your own child. Simply put, you must love your child more than you hate your ex. Our responsibility as custodial parents is to promote a positive relationship with the other parent. However, the custodial parent does not carry the full burden in that area. The non-custodial parent is responsible for promoting it as well by being there consistently and completely for the child(ren) they parent. When they do not do their part, they risk losing any rights to call foul when the child no longer wishes to visit. They cannot then blame the custodial parent for the lack of relationship.
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I call bullsh*t

July 26, 2012 at 1:48 am

I call bullsh*t on forcing children on this. I understand a lot of the time it is the non costodial parent but in the cases of emotional abuse like some1 else has mentioned it leaves no marks and it's hard to determine! I'm trying to modify my order per my 10 years request but no lawyer will touch it they say I have it good because I get to supervise it and taking it bad in court will just backfire on me. It's total bull to the point where my son wants to talk to the judge but will only do so in judges chambers because he's terrified what his "daddy" will do to him for saying it. We've even tried to get protective orders because his father has thrown objects at him for discipline. It left a bruise CPS was involved my son, not me told them what happened and you know what the judge decides? If his father felt throwing something was a correct disapline than to bad for my son case closed! So even physical abuse they do nothing. So instead my son and I are forced over there week after week not knowing if we are getting nice daddy or crazy lunatic daddy, daddy who pays attention or daddy who sits n reads the paper the entire time. But it's his time he can use it how ever he wants, but let me dare say no you can't see him because I'll go to jail! This guy has a rap sheet a mile long domestic. Violence and all that's why I sit in on visits but it does no good he does it in front of me! He has more damn control over my son and my life than I do. I always have to be worried well i cant do this or that i cant take him here or there or you know who will Start crap if ge finds out, what kind if life is this for my child? It's just a shame the court does nothing until the child is already broken
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Angela

August 4, 2012 at 3:31 pm

No. The man does not sound like a victim; he's describing a real situation in a factual manner.
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David

August 21, 2012 at 9:31 am

Ok, I've read through a majority of the post here and no one really hasn't addressed the issue of a GOOD noncustodial parent (like me). I'm retired military and kept in contact with my daughter all the time (now 14 and when the mom would let me). I only had 1 form of contact and that was the mothers cell # often being told she didn't have a home #, e-mail address or internet. Ever when my daughter had a cell of her own I couldn't get the number Who was I to call that bluff? Not the courts either. Nowwww the mom has recently passed and guess what i'm the full parent and my daughters mothers family is being stand offish, not answering my calls. Especially after they have known i'd be down to pick here up in a couple of weeks. At first she said she wanted to to with me now she has a change of heart and says she doesn't. As stated in one of the posts above, who knows what shes being told. All I know is she's on under my custody and we're looking forward to having her full time.
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Mindy

August 27, 2012 at 1:00 pm

My husband has 2 daughters, currently ages 16 and 19. I have 2 children as well, ages 18 and 19. We have been a family of 6 for 9 years. Approximately 4 years ago, my husbands youngest began fighting visitation (minimum 2 weekends per month). She would call the morning of and ask to stay home (birthday party, movie night with her friends, just didn't feel like coming over, etc.). In the beginning my husband would agree but ask for an "exchanged weekend" so that they didn't lose any time together. After a short time, (couple months) the "exchanged weekends" would get cancelled by daughter or mom. When the requests continued, my husband put his foot down and said no. He explained that he understood how important the "social events" are in her life (at the time she was 12) but that she also needed to understand how important their time together is as well. That it's unacceptable to commit to something and then back out because you have a better offer. He was trying to teach her accountability and respect, and he explained this to her. This continued and is still happening to this day (she is a 16 yr old senior in high school). Her mother does not agree with my husband, she thinks that her social time is very important and that if their daughter doesn't want to come over then she is not going to make her. (keep in mind, we live 40 minutes away). My husband attends every event that his daughter is involved in, always has. We always plan family events, outings, game nights, etc. My step-daughter and my husband attended 2 counseling sessions last year, where she didn't say a word and after the 2nd visit told her mother and father that he might as well cancel any future sessions because she won't be going. Her mom does not include my husband in any rule making, important decisions, punishment, etc. She told him his opinion doesn't matter, that she will always have the final say. My step-daughter has been caught lying, sneaking out, cheating at school, manipulating, she has stolen some of my clothes (got caught and admitted it). She has the ability to be a scholar student but admits that she just tunes out or just isn't feeling it at times. My husband scheduled a parent teacher conference for the classes she has less than acceptable grades in and asked her mother to be there, she said "I'm not going, they won't tell me anything I don't already know" so he attended with my stepdaughter. The teachers said she is pleasant and has the ability to exceed but is too social, doesn't apply herself, waits until the last minute to cram for tests and puts extracurricular activities first. She is a cheerleader and her mom is the coach. Last semester of her junior year we laid out some expectations and explained how very important this semester was regarding grants/scholarships for college. Basically on any quizzes or tests, if she received lower than a C we suspended her cell phone (it is on our plan). That is the only punishment we could think of because her mom doesn't support anything else and won't involve my husband in the parenting. At the end of the semester she finished with some D's, my husband reminded her of the consequences and she lost her cell phone for the summer. The summer visitation was very difficult for my husband because of cheer and she worked as a lifeguard which was every weekend. Unfortunately there was great difficulty in getting "makeup time". When the schedule for September was being made, he had requested 3 weekends rather than 2 to somehow make up for loss of time over the summer and the upcoming months because his time will be limited again due to cheer and dance practices and performances at football games, etc. The answer was no, not from his daughter but from her mom. My husband asked why and she said because "she only has to spend 2 weekends per month with you." He said that the papers say a "minimum" and she proceeded by asking which 2 weekends work best for him. He has had difficulty over the years ever getting more than 2 weekends, she refuses. He asked why she fights so hard for him and their daughter to spend time together and she didn't answer. Last week my husband and his daughter were discussing back to school, expectations, etc over the phone. He asked if she had any chapter tests coming up and she said she took one today and the grade should be posted on Friday. He said great, I will keep my eye out ... how do you think you did? She said, not sure. On Friday he checked her grade and she got an 83% so he called to congratulate her and tell her we lifted the suspension on her phone. He texted her Saturday and Sunday, just random texts with no reply so he called the house last night and asked how come she wasn't replying, she told him because she doesn't need that phone anymore, mom got her a phone and added her to her plan in March (the first time her phone was taken last semester for a week). The conversation continued, she used profanity, raised her voice, told him she didn't want to come over anymore and hung up on him. He tried to call back several times and the answering machine picked up. We are at a loss. We have no clue what to do anymore. He has tried counseling, adjusted the visitation agreement mutually last year, brought law enforcement with him when he was denied visitation.....HELP!
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FolsomMom

August 31, 2012 at 5:50 pm

My son is 6 and does not want to do overnights with my X. I know there is no physical abuse but my son is just very bonded with me and wants to just spend the day with dad and sometimes on the weekends spend the night. He misses me so much that he cries the next day at school after spending the night with his dad. It is now got to the point it is interfering with his schooling and he looks exhausted. The X is wanting 50/50 custody because he is all about the money. When our son is with him he does not spend quality time with him... he drags him to the gym and leaves him unsupervised where he can be abducted. When our son is with him at his residence he lives him unsupervised outside. I fear for our son's safety but I have heard it is very difficult to get time reduced here in California unless his dad is basically burning cigs out on him or beating him to a pulp because they are so worried that the father is not getting his custody??? I don't know what to do... I have got video evidence of my X working out in the gym and my son playing outside next to a main road where he could easily be abducted. The attorney said I could get into trouble for stalking.... I found this to be ridiculous but that is how crazy the court system is... any suggestion on what I could do to make sure my son stays safe???? PLEASE any suggestions welcome
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Sakky

September 1, 2012 at 8:57 am

This blog is bullsh&t. Thank God for people like MJ who realize that every situation is different. Assuming that the custodial parent is the villian in all of these situations is warped and so is assuming the children will always benefit from visiting the non custodial parent.
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Laura

September 2, 2012 at 10:52 pm

What's Bullshit is that the courts fail to see a parent that is a true abusive alcoholic that scares the shit out of their child. That is when a child's voice needs to be heard and things taken into consideration. Because Family court does not take these things seriously and enforces children to go with a parent even if they are fearful. This is when tragedies happen like the 2 little boys forced to visit their father who was clearly mentally unstable, so he lights the house on fire and burns all three of them to death. Where is the judge that ordered that visitation and who the hell was the psychologist that evaluated that parent? Then everyone watches the news and wonders how such a tragedy could happen to these innocent children. They didn't have a voice in the family courts did they, they didn't have a chance ? So I don't want to hear a damn word about how these children should not have a say and how the other parent is just brainwashing the child and not disciplining. Children are little people and their feelings and fears matter just as much as an adults. They didn't ask to be thrown into all the bullshit court system and they continue to be exploited by the courts. Who will protect them, I sure don't see the family court doing so!!!
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Boyka

September 5, 2012 at 9:19 am

Hey All, I have been in a 3 year relationship with my boyfriend. He has an 18 year old and twins age 14 (boy & girl) who are currently refusing to go to his house. I asked my boyfriend why and he said it's because they don't want to to work. He has a farm. The kids haven't been to his house for over 2 weeks. I do my best to not get into the middle of things for they are not my kids but all I keep asking myself is why wouldn't the mother make the kids go. Apparently they do not have any chores or what the kids would call "work" while they are at their mother's. I have witnessed the kids at their father's and they leave dirty dishes laying around, complain whenever the father asks them to do anything, then the threats come by the youngest that she'll just go to moms, she hates it at her dads, she actually wrote letters to the father of how he's trying to make her live his life. This farm he owns pays for many things for these kids. I am seeing spoiled selfish kids- am I wrong? Is the mother enabling them...oh and we don't live together. I am a single mom of a 2nd year college student. I have done my share of spoiling my son- I know- I also feel my son is not very respectful to me sometimes because I have spoiled him- just hoping he'll grow up someday and realize all I've done for him with an absent father. Do I just stay out of the whole thing about my boyfriends kids? Boyfriend tells me anytime I ask him about what his ex does in her house with the kids he tells me to ask her myself...advise? Custody is supposed to be 50/50... Thanks!
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Boyka

September 12, 2012 at 1:50 pm

The mother of the daughter obviously has issues. Mother sounds self centered. Very sad to hand down traits like that to the daughter. Hang in there I just hope the younger ones don't take on the older ones attitude. But all in all I blame the mother (Custodial) parent. Sounds like she bought the daughter a cell phone when the father took it away- nice- Children need discipline and most females don't realize that.....kids have things way to easy sometimes. Seems you guys are doing the right things. Keep workin at it!
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Sam

September 19, 2012 at 12:15 pm

Yes, but what do you do when the emotional abuser with the Jekyll and Hyde traits is the custodial parent?
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hopeless

September 21, 2012 at 6:46 pm

My 6 year old hates going with her father, despite my efforts in seeking counselling to deal with this situation it has not changed. On 2 different occasions Child Protective Services got involved I called once and I don't know who reported him the 2nd time and their findings were that they had suspicions that she was being neglected while under her father's "care". My daughter attended counselling for almost 2 years and the end result was much the same, her father was found to be neglectful. Last month I had to take my ex to court to have him sign a passport form so I could take our daughter to Disney, the court ordered him to sign and provide a letter of conscent to travel. The judge (whom we stood in front of several times before) didn't seem pleased that my only recourse was to take this matter to court and after a lenghtly review of the file stated "it is my belief that joint custody and 50/50 input in decsion making for the minor child should be left solely to mom"...." I don't believe it practical nor does this court think it in the best interest of 'jane' that 'Mr. Smith' have input in the day to day matters or matters of health, religion or education, 'Mr. Smith' has demonstated too many times that he is unable or unwilling to put the best interest of his child ahead of his own wants and desires and this will undoubly affect the well being of 'jane' should it continue" Despite having said all this he stated that he would note it in the file to the presiding judge for review at a ending settlement conference. The settlement conference did not work out in the end and we ended up going through in interim process, where the above was read by the presiding judge. My ex was awarded joint custody, access and overnight access which he had never had in her six years, he was also exempted from having to provide a medical insurance card for our daughter, and I was told that if I wanted to have my maiden name on her birth certificate I had to go through a whole other process. At them time of this decision I provided the court with documentation that my daughter's father, was in severe arrears with his child support payments, that he was under treatment for a mental medical condition and that he was under investigation for prescription drug abuse issue. The judge's response was that it didn't make him a bad parent and so the access etc was issued and was to start the following Tuesday. That was several months ago and he hasn't shown up for a visist yet in fact he called to confirm her after school pick up but never showed up she was left her at school twice alone in the lobby and I had to leave work to pick her up. I filed with the court to have this order ammend to exclude the overnight access and to have his named removed from being able to pick her up at the school and despite notarized letters from the school counsellor, principle and our daughter's teacher the judge stated that because he attended court ( he was present that day) showed that he had an interest in his child that the order remain in effect, that was 4 weeks ago and that was the last time we seen him. He hasn't shown up for not 1 of his scheduled 12 access visits in that time. In a nut shell why shouldn't my child at the age of 6 be heard why should she be forced into access visits with a person that is very nearly a complete stranger to her, a stranger would treat her better. DNA does not a good father make and apparently passing the bar etc does not a good judge make. Where's the justice for my daughter, her father will turn up around Christmas with his poor "I hardly ever get to see her act" and I'll have to force her to go or be found in contempt of a court order. So I say if a child can speak and says I don't want to go then they shouldn't be forced, it's not like going to the dentist or doctors appointment where there are benefits. Forcing a child into an unhealthly situation can certainly have not benefits and cannot be in her best for her well being or welfare. When a child wakes at night crying in terror and gets up in the morning vomitting and diaherra begging not to have to go with the other parent and you provide proof of this to the court and the counsellors and other government bodies find the same why would a court find it in her best interest to continue these visits. Just my two cents based on the last 5 years of my life.
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hopeless

September 21, 2012 at 6:50 pm

Your story mirrors mine in almost everyway, but I live in NL. The lawyers and court tell you you can't take any action without proof and when you get the proof you can't use it as you might be charged with harrassment or stalking or some such bull and if you have a criminal record your own access and custody may be negatively impacted. My prayers are with you and all children and parents in the same situation, it's a heavy cross, "my own life sentence" as I see it with our children bearing the brunt of the punishment. God help us.
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Tara

September 26, 2012 at 9:17 pm

My 8 year old daughter cries constantly when she knows visitation with her father is coming up...she starts crying literally a week in advance! Than when she is over there, she calls me about 15 times a day, begging and crying for me to come get her (most times when she calls, doesnt matter what time it is, her father is asleep). I have been forcing her to go, but no longer feel that I should do so. The crying and desperation is just getting worse. Also, when my daughter was 3, she was "digitally' molested by someone at their house. It was a huge ordeal, and she went to a year of counseling for it. And since she said it wasnt her father, but one of his friends(and she didnt know his name, mind you she was only 3) the CPS forced her to start visitation again. What am I supposed to do?! This is exactly how she was acting when she was 3 when she showed the counselor what had happened to her at visitation, and I am seeing the same behavior again. So I just force her to keep going, risking her safety and ignoring her cry out for help?!?!?!
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Gregory Forman

September 26, 2012 at 9:26 pm

No. You file to limit the father's visitation. All the custodial parents posting comments on this blog about how much their child hates visiting the other parent are missing the point. The point is that one shouldn't unilaterally restrict the other parent's visitation, but instead should petition the family court to limit the other parent's visitation.
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Erin

September 27, 2012 at 5:27 pm

Boyka, I understand what you are saying. Even understand your concern. However, you are not even living with this man. The courts are very strong on the subject that even the step parent stay out of the situation between two ex-spouses and their children. You getting involved will not help the situation and in most likelihood would cause even more problems. If you really care for this man and it sounds like you do, you should support him and be there for him but stay as much out of it as you possibly can.
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Thomas F. McDow

September 30, 2012 at 3:33 pm

Sometimes the crying before visitation is manipulation by the child. I once had a situation where I took a child for a visitation exchange. The bright, intelligent, eight-year-old girl cried before leaving her mother, telling the mother that she did not want to see her father, that she wanted to stay with the mother. When she got to her father's house, she ran and jumped into his arms telling him how happy she was to be there and how she never wanted to go back to her mother. The child knew that I watched both scenes but she also knew that her parents hated each other guts and that she was making both of them happy. On Sunday, when got the child from her father and returned her to her mother, the exact reverse happened. She told her father she did not want to leave. She then told her mother how happy she was to be back home. Since that experience, I have given very little weight to a parent telling me that a child does not want to visit. My general belief is that when a child says that he or she does not want to visit, that it is a combination of parents who put their hatred of each other above any love for the child and a child who wants to please both parents and is manipulative.
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paul

October 6, 2012 at 7:38 pm

very interesting dilemma as i too am in the same situation. having 50/50 this is the 2nd time my two sons mom has accused me of abuse. first time courts favored with me and gave me sole decision making but we kept 50/50. this time around my 15 year old has used the abuse card to get his way. what have i been accused of: not enough snacks, have steak and potatoes (every day), i smoke in the garage, i wont drive them "anywhere", i shut off cable because of the junk they were watching and i make them go to bed at 10pm. i guess we know who's running the show as the GAL buys it all. so they can either stay at disneyland or have to go to dads.
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Boyka

October 9, 2012 at 8:46 am

Paul, Your dilemma is the same as mine...Althought I am just the girlfriend I remain out of any of it as much as I can. There is the occasional boyfriend asking me to pick up his son here or daughter there but it is still very hard to watch this kind of behavior produce our next generation. I made my own mistakes with my son and hate to see them happen to someone I love now. How many teenagers go on a cruise to the caribbean their senior year of high school in October? Or buys their daughter a $300 puppy because she wants one and now the daughter doesn't go to the dad's house because of the dog requiring her attention. Kids don't go to dad's because they have to do chores or work on the farm. We come from a working middle class family what is becoming of our youth for the future? I like your phrase Disneyland or go to dad's- hmmm which would you chose if you were a teen?
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Che

October 14, 2012 at 8:21 pm

I have been trying to see my son for several years off and on. When the Father (custodial) finds it in his best interest to let me see him, he will. He feels that he can call the shots of when I get to be "Mom". Recently I have fallen behind on child support (lost job), now I have a new job and making payments. I filed for Violation of Visitation and he had his lawyer issue a warrant for me being behind on support. I had to spend time in jail and almost lost my job, too. What can I do or say at the hearing for the violation of visitation to be enforced or perhaps have all the time missed made up? I feel that he had the warrant issued in hopes that I would not be able to appear in court for the hearing.
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Annoyed

October 16, 2012 at 4:59 am

You want to know what's bullsh*t? When a father abandons his child for more than 5 years and only decides he wants to see his child AFTER he's been forced to pay support. What's even worse and a bigger bunch of bullsh*t is when he has another child with someone else that he doesn't support, doesn't see, hasn't sought visitation for and still comes for visitation with mine only because he was made to pay support. Looks a bit fishy when a parent only comes into the picture for visitation AFTER they're ordered to pay. Yet that doesn't count in court. You have strangers that know nothing making decisions that will impact a child for the rest of his/her life. Judges playing god. So worried about deadbeats and worried so little about vulnerable children being forced to keep company with a stranger. A parent isn't someone that has sex and produces a child. A parent is someone that has ALWAYS been there and has ALWAYS put their child first. The garbage I hear about "I made a mistake" doesn't fly when it comes to abandoning your own child. Shame judges don't seem to give a damn about that. God forbid someone that walked away from their child be denied "parenting" time.
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Gregory Forman

October 16, 2012 at 6:11 am

If you didn't want the father attempting a relationship with your then five year old child you shouldn't have placed him on child support. It seems churlish to demand support from this father and then complain when he wants to visit. I suspect when you became pregnant, you didn't want to develop a long-term relationship with the father and he didn't want to be a father. You disturbed this equilibrium.
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Erin

October 16, 2012 at 9:07 am

Greg, I have mixed feelings on the subject of support. I have a daughter who is now 26. Her father and I were only dating casually. When I became pregnant, he was not ready or willing to be a father. Now, he was also not ready or willing to help me in any way either to terminate the pregnancy or sign adoption papers. I made the choice to keep and raise her. Because I did this unilaterally, I felt it would be wrong for me to demand on the other hand he support her in any way. So I never demanded any support from him. At a point in my life I was too ill to work and needed government assistance. The thing is, in order to get any kind of help, they REQUIRE you to cooperate with the attorney general's office to establish and enforce child support from the estranged father. I lied and said I had no idea who it was. Since I never put his name on the birth certificate I was able to get by doing this. What I am saying is to give the woman the benefit of the doubt here. You do not know the full situation. Also, please keep in mind another thing. Often when a parent that has not paid any support or parented a child in any way is forced to pay support, they retaliate in this way. I have gone through it myself very recently. Not saying it IS his motivation. No way to know what he really wants. My personal problem with this kind of situation is you have a father that has been absent in the child's life in EVERY way. To now force a child into a regular visitation schedule to me seems not in the best interest of the child. I am absolutely NOT saying to not allow visitation. Just have supervised or final (sp?) counselling first. To give the child a safe place to get to know the father. Also, most often in a situation like this the parent will not follow through and become a parent in the way they should. So now you have added to the damage already done to the child by having them abandoned yet again, only this time they are old enough to remember it! My father was like this, I would be lucky to see him once a year at my grandmothers for Christmas. It did significant damage to me and my self esteem. This is why I feel the counseling is the best way. To test the waters, so to speak. See if the parent WILL follow through. Then if they do, everyone wins. Annoyed, I understand your anger. I really do. But you MUST love your child more than you dislike the father. Is it fair? No, it isnt. But it is what we as parent must do. We have to put them first. The only thing you can do is step back. Be there for your child to talk to about what they are feeling. If the parents only bad thing is they were not there for the child in any way, it could be much worse. This will go down one of two ways. The parent will either step it up for once in their life, or they will not follow through. The best outcome here would be they step up and be a parent to your child. Right?
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Calling BS

November 17, 2012 at 11:12 am

What do you do with a parent acts like her children the same way Gollum does with the One Ring? ("Don't take my prescioussesss!") I disagree with then entire 'emotional abuse' argument since it can't be proven, holds no DSM diagnosis, and, at best, it's junk science. In truth, it's become the 'raison d'etre' for a segment of of women looking for an excuse - any excuse - to divorce and divide families and to keep children away from their fathers. I have a son, who when he made his conscious choice to visit me, was marginalized and punished by his own mother for doing so and she cut his twin 'out of the herd' to ensure that her own 'half of the set' was secure. To ensure that, she lied, manipulated, and otherwise painted a very broad, negative picture of me to the disassociated child and his siblings and passive-aggressively told the children it was okay if they didn't visit. Two years later, the outcome is that her behaviors have shattered the relationship between the oldest twin and her as well as the youngest twin and I - something that could have all been avoided if she had been an actual proactive custodial parent who could put aside her own deep-seated anger issues and put the kid in the car. I am off to court soon to do a few things: 1) let the younger child know that I am fighting for him, 2) get her continued violations of the court order on paper, 3) possibly get the Division of Youth Services and a guardian ad litem involved to investigate what I believe is a pattern of abusive behavior. At 16, I may not get custody of him but I will be able to sleep better at night knowing that I fought the good fight for my kids.
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Calling BS

November 17, 2012 at 11:26 am

Your assertion is correct but predicated on the custodial parent's cooperation for access. My ex has told me that I am not allowed to contact him!
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Calling BS

November 17, 2012 at 11:34 am

In my case, I'm the one insisting on joint counseling because of the damage she's done.
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Calling BS

November 17, 2012 at 11:43 am

If all of this is true, call CPS and file a complaint.
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Sharon Browne

November 18, 2012 at 9:20 pm

I am going to try to see if I can find the book you mentioned. Perhaps it will help me with my current situation with my daughter. Also, I like the comments from Mr. Forman. If I go into court to have my order enforced, I will use his comments. I am currently going through (again) with a teen (she's 16 now) who refuses to talk to me or visit with me. I am the non-custodial parent. She stopped talking to me in June 2012. Our relationship prior to June was good. She had no reason to stop talking to me. Then when my visitation came in August, she sent me an email stating that she had lots of school work to do for her upcoming school classes. I believed her. School comes first. She still refused to talk to me until I called her Dad and said that a court order states he must make her available for my phone calls every Sunday at 7pm. He is in contempt right now. When I asked for my daughter last week, the step mother told my youngest son that my daughter is sleeping and not available. That's when I placed a call to her Dad. I told him that I want a call, not an email, but an actual phone call. I have yet to get it. Her Dad said he'll take to her. He will have her email me. He also wanted to know if I had gotten an email in the past from her about visitation and phone calls. I have not. My daughter has been emailing me this week saying that she has no intention of talking or visiting me what so ever. I simply told her that until she reaches the age of consent, she will be available for calls and visitation. I will not change that. In addition, she stated in an email this week after I told her not to address me by my first name: "I will not be referring to you as "mom" because you are not a mother to me. Giving birth to me doesn't give you that title. " Her step mother used to yell that to me whenever I brought the kids back from my visitation and they wanted to stay with me. The step mom said that she's their mother now and I'm just the birth Mom. I don't take care of them. About three years ago, my son did the same thing as my daughter is doing now. I allowed him to make the choice of coming with me or staying with his Dad. He choose his Dad each time. This went on for 1 1/2 yrs. My son missed out on a lot of quality family time with me. He now regrets it. He still says he's sorry about his behavior. I am at fault for allowing this behavior to have continued. I don't want the same mistakes to happen with my daughter. I don't want to loose any relationship I have with my daughter. I love her so very much. I know that the step mother has a lot of influence with her. After all, when you hear negativity every day, you tend to believe it. Furthermore, I had to explain to my young son at the age of 6yrs that it was not a good thing to call Mommie, a *itch. He didn't understand because that's what his step mom and Dad call me. I refuse to talk to my children about court and adult issues. They do not need to be involved with it. I also refuse to say negative things about their step mom and Dad. It's not fair to them. Additionally, the children are not allowed any contact with their older brother and his wife because the step mother doesn't like them. My older son and his Dad do not have any type of relationship. His Dad refuses to talk to him. I have encouraged both sides to talk and communicate to no avail. I still continue the encouragement to this day. Both men are very stubborn. I guess I'm wondering where does a non-custodial parent with limited income go for help with court-ordered visitation go in the State of Virginia. I live in Michigan.
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Calling BS

November 19, 2012 at 8:02 am

I'm in the same boat; I've tried to find per se resources but it's pretty limited and the sad roll of the dice here in PWC is that if you wind up in Potter's court, you're bent over and legally raped repeatedly until you give up or go nuts. Stay away from PWC if you can. My limited neophyte understanding is that without hiring a lawyer in Virginia you have to appear in person so that makes life pretty miserable for a parent in another State and the economy is requiring lawyers who normally take clients on a 'pay as you go' plan to forgo that practice entirely. [If you can find that particular unicorn, let me know!] Sharon, I'll be praying for you and your situation. -Bear-
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paul

November 19, 2012 at 8:56 am

"your position assumes that the custodial parent is the villian" in many cases they are. i think richard warshaks book "divorce poison" broaches this subject. the bad thing is the courts, gals and therapists many times are unqualified to see it.
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paul

November 19, 2012 at 8:57 am

"your position assumes that the custodial parent is the villian" in many cases they are. i think richard warshaks book "divorce poison" broaches this subject. the bad thing is the courts, gals and therapists many times are unqualified to see it. especially when the kids have been conditioned to believe the other parent is "bad".
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paul

November 19, 2012 at 9:05 am

you are dead on with the emotional abuse. however, very often emotional abusers play the "abuse" card as they know how to play the victim many times from their own upbringing. teenagers pick up on these tactics and very often the custodial parent, who wants all the control, plays the "abused" role very effectively in court.
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paul

November 19, 2012 at 9:27 am

where it gets tricky, as in my situation, the custodial parent with my son called the cops on me and they found NO abuse but still had a restraining order placed on me by courts and eventually removed. now the kids know how to use the "system" especially counselor to get what they want.
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Erin

November 19, 2012 at 10:38 am

Calling BS.. First.. do not paint all situations with the same brush as yours. You have a bad one but that does NOT mean that all emotional abuse is BS. I mean in your own post, you begin by calling it BS but end it by accusing your ex of that same emotional abuse. So is it real or isnt it? Only if it is you that are being accused of it? Sorry, no it is real. And I have been to court. PRO SE with the father actually having an attorney and me not. I won, why because I had the facts on my side. I had all of it documented and all he had was his outrage of not having seen his children for 3 years. Nevermind that he actually made any attempt to see them, call them or even call me to ask. Nevermind that when his daughter didnt do as he asked her to his answer to it was to tell her she was dead to him and never speak to her again. Nevermind that his son who was 9 at his last visit had a very very valid reason for not wanting to return. Read my prior post. His father could have handled it at the time by simply talking to his son, making a sincere apology for at minimum hurting him and doing something in his presence that was not well thought out. However, that would require him to actually have accepted some fault in the situation instead of pointing fingers at me and everyone else for keeping his children from him. In the end he had no choice but to deal with the consequences and understand your relationship with your children is not handed to you on a silver platter. You actually have to work at it. Earn respect not expect it. Lord knows I tried most of their lives to promote a good relationship between them even when he did everything to destroy it. Emotional abuse IS REAL an damaging on either side. So please do not dismiss it, or paint all custodial parents with the same brush as your ex. There ARE times that visitation with the custodial parent can be damaging. I would hope not often, but cannot say. The only thing we can do is listen to our kids. When something they tell us is happening, first attempt to discuss it with the other parent. If possibly both custodial and non custodial parents should present a united front. Also even more important any other adults in the situation should stay OUT OF IT. I cannot express this strong enough. They may be part of it, but they are not the parents. The parents of the children are the ONLY PARENTS and often the other adults cause even more issues in a situation that is difficult enough.
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paul

November 19, 2012 at 10:54 am

its interesting because both you and Erin are correct in your own situation. the emotional abuser could be the custodial parent or the non and by labeling all custodial or all non as the abuser, we are missing the point. bottom line it all depends on the situation but if the non does not enforce their right to see their child it is their loss. but for those like bs who wants a relationship with his child and they are unfortunately being manipulated, thats the travesty.
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Boyka

November 19, 2012 at 11:19 am

Hi Erin, You are right. I don't want to be involved anymore. I raised my only child by myself void of a father figure and my son's doing great. 2nd year of college but trust me he has had his troubles. I am a single mom who's son flew the coop and have found I'm spending my time trying to please my boyfriend & his kids and getting nothing in return. Hell I don't even get thank you's anymore... birthday presents for kids, buying hair dye for the daughter, christmas presents, arranging a week vacation the Keys for all of us, fixing/decorating the hunting shack for the kids prom party, picking kids up and giving them rides to and from the parents houses, driving the daughter to driving class, all this stuff and I can't think of one nice thing he or his kids have done for me in well over 1.5 years. Recently his son was picked up by his mother from school for being depressed over his GF dumping him 3 weeks ago. Son missed basketball practice and my boyfriend wouldn't have known a thing when it happened till his son didn't come to his house that night, he wouldn't have known about it if I hadn't told him. So you see the kids have come to rely on me, care about them, and be there for any issues they want to talk about. So there seems to be this lack of communication between the parents so the kids tell me things...yet I asked the mother if her & I could talk sometime in order to make things better for everyone involved and her response was she didn't want to come between me and her exhusband. Hell I didn't even say anything about talking about my boyfriend. So the mother says she'd rather text with me...I'm not a texter in fact I think it is the most informal way of comm these days. Shoot I'm getting exhausted thinking of all this. I think I'll just end the relationship, so tired of the drama & stress...life is not a dress rehearsal and way to short for dealing with this stuff. Either that or just separate myself from all of it for a while...will be hard I miss the kids and I definately will have a hard time when the kids come to me or look to me for help...ERRRRRRRR
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SC

November 20, 2012 at 2:10 pm

I am so glad I came across your article and it is so true. Just confirms everything for us. Custodial parent has wanted ALL Christmas's. We went to court and they gave us alternating Christmas's. The Christmas it was supposed to start she made an excuse that she just had a baby and wanted their first Christmas to be together. I just had one too by the way. So we agreed. Starting that following January, custodial parent started saying the child didnt want to come down but we spoke to him and he was fine with it. He has a great time when he comes to stay with us. Later in the year she asked again. We said no. So she said she was going to file for more child support and filed paperwork to change the child's last name to HER husbands name. So of course we had to get another lawyer because ours didnt work in that particular county. We tried working out a 'deal' with the custodial parent giving up one more Christmas and then alternate if we get the child longer for the summer and one extra day on the weekend. (My husband drives 12 hours round trip to see his child one weekend a month). Custodial parent said no and that only if the child spoke to each parent that he would be 'comfortable' coming to see us for Christmas. The custodial parent has been brainwashing the child saying he wouldnt see his friends and play with his toys. The child is 7 by the way. After spending all this money to make a deal for the custodial parent, rather than what is really best for the child, we decided to keep our Christmas and we can always go back to court to get the child for a longer period of time. This was not about the child, this was about the custodial parent not wanting the non-custodial parent involved. They make it sound like it is what the child wants. We know this is not true because she has tried to get my husband to give up all his rights as a parent twice and to give up his joint custody rights. It is horrible what some of these parents are doing to their children when they play these games. Somehow they want to 'get back' at their ex-whatever. I am a custodial parent myself. Please think about the child(ren) and get over whatever you may be angry about.
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Janix7

November 26, 2012 at 7:05 pm

Courts do not recognize psychological abuse, and believe that visitation with a psychological abusive parent is more important than not having both parents. I think children have a right to speak up, whether or not they get to make the final decision.
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Trina

December 6, 2012 at 1:04 pm

I agree with Janix7. I have the problem that my son's father is autistic and grade-school son finds him terribly boring. The man just monologues about himself and has no active listening skills. The poor boy finds his company excruciating. As long as they are engaging in some interesting activity such as an amusement park, bike ride, and so on, and do not actually have to interact with one another, they do well enough. Making chit-chat on Skype with him (picture a forced half-hour session with Rain Man at least twice a week) is so boring, however, that I am having problems forcing my son to do it. When he resists, complains or avoids, the father gives me a hard time for not facilitating contact. The father's autism contributed to our breakup in the first place. The father's communication problems are not taken into account by anyone, but if he chooses to give the mother a hard time because son is not enthusiastic about the relationship, everyone seems to listen and blame the mother. After all, children need fathers involved and present. Any father will do. Children must have them. Right. I call bullshit on THAT.
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Hopeless

December 11, 2012 at 10:06 pm

Greg, I completely understand your position on visitation. This very thing is happening with my sister and my nephew. The father had no job, no home, no vehicle and sued my sister for custody. The judge was retiring and quite frankly, I think he was tired of the case and handed over custody of my nephew to his dad. The judge claimed he did this based on the chaos that was occurring in the home. My sister had moved several times and my nephew was in and out of different schools. The father was to obtain a home within a month, and get caught up on his child support were his only two requirements. After my nephew moved in with his dad, he was removed from the public school system with the claim that he is being home schooled. Which by the way, is not happening because in Indiana the only proof that is required is an attendance record with absolutely no proof the child is learning. The father's idea of education is anti-government propaganda and drilling into his head details about the Illuminati. My sister has been in and out of courts due to visitation issues and the father has been found in contempt several times. However, now the situation is quite different because my nephew is 14 years old. The father has videotaped my nephew stating that he is not being abused and that he does not want to see my sister. All the while the father is asking him questions like, "Now are you being smacked in the face for saying these things? There is no abuse occurring correct? This is solely you speaking?" My nephew the whole time agreeing or disagreeing as if he were on a game show. My sister was told by lawyers that the situation is worthless that the father will basically fight her until the child is 18. The father has stated this exact statement. They have also told her that the judge may say that there has to be a visitation schedule, but who will enforce it? I am a divorced mother of two, and even though I don't always agree with my children's father, but I try to keep these amicable for their sake. It would be a cold day in hell that I would let my children choose whether or not they wanted to see their father. If both parents were still together would we let the child override the direction of either parent? Hell no! So why on earth would we allow it to happen when the parents are apart? It's called mutual respect and when you allow a child to have that power what do these parents think is going to happen when they are 18? They are going to disrespect every authority figure in their life. Including the custodial parent who encouraged their right to an opinion. Not to mention, when you alienate a child from a loving parent what does this to do them emotionally? My question is, what recourse is there for the non-custodial parent when the custodial parent only gets a slap on the hand for being in contempt? What can be done?
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Hopeless

December 11, 2012 at 10:27 pm

Here is just one of the many letters just written today that my nephew can view from his own Facebook page. Mind you, my sister NEVER locked him out of his account, he currently has two accounts and he keeps writing these long winded letters filled with hatred about how my sister's face should be placed in a meat grinder, please read I know it is long...but she could really use your help: To someone specific: seriously, you're certifiably insane, aren't you? You fight so hard to WIN, that you don't stop to think about WHO you're fighting against, or WHO you're hurting! You're too blind to see that you're kicking your own ass, just like every other time. It's getting boring. Congratulations, dillhole. You've succeeded in driving him yet FURTHER from you by locking him out of his facebook account! THANK YOU for handing me FREELY and ABUNDANTLY everything I would need to secure his attachment to ME, were I actually in the process of attempting to keep him from YOU. You ARE an idiot. He hates you now. NOT because I am a some mind control wizard of some sort, but because you just HAVE to beat ME, and HE is the prize. PATHETIC! He SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE "PRIZE" ALL ALONG! You should have been treating him well from BIRTH! HOW do you think you LOST him in the FIRST PLACE? Ugh. *sigh*, you're HOPELESS. I TRIED to act as glue to hold you two together, but you'd f**k up a wet dream, so I'm powerless to be of assistance to you. Did you EVER stop to think that if you had been taking care of him like you SHOULD, not KEEPING HIM FROM ME, and providing him with an appropriate environment, that YOU'd STILL HAVE CUSTODY??? 6 PAGE DETAILED RULING, PEOPLE. I can show ANYONE the truth. The judges decision is MULTIPLE pages long; all you have to do is ask to see it. Here I am AGAIN, POSTING. Go ahead, print it out. Save me the paper and ink. I'm not afraid to post this because I'm RIGHT, and I'm HONEST.
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John

January 20, 2013 at 12:16 am

Thank you for your article. Would you be so kind as to provide your feedback or opinion on this case? I have been attempting visitation with son ever since my ex-wife divorced me and had her boyfriend abduct and kidnap our son and flee with him and the ex-wife to Las Vegas, Nevada. I have always had visitation granted to me by the courts since the dissolution of marriage, however, the boyfriend and my ex-wife forbid it, regardless of all court orders. Even parenting plans made by my ex-wife’s’ very own criminal attorney, default judgments and orders to stay and contempt charges have had no affect on my being allowed visitation by my ex-wife or her boyfriend. It has gone so far as her boyfriend threatening my life if I attempt to call or visit my son and even kidnapping our son from school and fleeing with our child to San Diego, California during one scheduled visitation, and hiding at another location to forbid visitation during another scheduled visitation. They have no fear of the courts and they also know that I have exhausted my finances and cannot afford an attorney, especially an out-of-state attorney. I have a vague idea where my son is but no exact address or physical location of his residence or school and no telephone contact number. I have no idea how to get a judge to see that there is no possible alternative to allow my visitation other than requesting a change of custody before my ex-wife attempts to bring our son out of the country, which the judge said she would allow if I cannot come up with reasonable proof as to why our son should not be allowed international travel with his mother and her boyfriend. My ex-wife has a free attorney, by utilizing the false pretenses of victims’ assistance and abused spouse organizations, regardless of no proof of any such actions of abuse or being a victim. I have no legal counsel and have been only pleading with my ex-wife and the judge to allow my visitation with my son. I am beginning to wonder if I will ever see my son again. I was allowed to see him for the first time in four years on December 27, 2012. I thanked my ex-wife for allowing me her self-appointed one-hour supervised visitation with my son and begged her to please work out a parenting plan with me. Unfortunately, that caused her to get angry with me and she told me that she is denying my request and taking away my visitation because I “whined” about parenting time and I should not have any rights to be a parent because she is the custodial parent and that means that I have no rights as a father to our son. Any idea on what approach I can take? I am trying my best to show the judge in good faith that I only wish to be a part of my son’s life and not trying to do anything illegal by wanting to be a good father.
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Chris Watson

January 20, 2013 at 9:42 am

Here in VA, if she refuses custodial time and removes him from out of state without your permission she is guilty of a Class 6 felony and you could petition the court for a change of custody. I'm shocked that no court, once it's been demonstrated that she has no regard for the orders, wouldn't grant you full custody. If you don't have a lawyer, get to your local law library and start researching on how to do it yourself.
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mo

February 10, 2013 at 10:52 pm

my divorce is a nightmare.. my ex husband got sole custody but black mails me and txt threatens me just about every day he has recently not allowed me to speak to my daughters and will not allow me to see them.. i was granted visitations and phone calls every other day.. he is actin on child support which my boss sends in every month except this last month she hadn't sent it in cause she changed accountances. so a double payment is being sent in this month.. he has gone as to threatin me to block me if i call... my daughters ages are 17 ,10,6.. i married young and stupishly at 16 yrs old my ex husband was 18 when we married i was also 3 months along... my 35 now and he is my worst night mare ever.. he is thee worst yet i try to be nice i need advice what i can i do to get him to understand they are my children too not all his and he has never worked in all 16+ yrs and still isn't he gets foodstamps and sells them from time to time and he gets disbability $$ for anxiety and housing assistance and tanf cash assistance and the child support as well.. why am i the only one who feels she gettin fucked up in this deal.. help and advice much appreciated... im losing my mind.. i have worked all those yrs and to be screwed like hell by him is very very hurtful mind controling and emotional abuse .. HELP plz
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Omi F

March 22, 2013 at 8:01 pm

I normally don't do this but came across this article and as a frustrated grandmother who has helped raise her Grandsons since Dad threw them to the curb... I felt compelled to post some thoughts. Some kids really DON'T want to go with the (non-custodial parent) and not because the custodial parent has alienated their affection, but because the non-custodial parent has done that all by themselves. There are good and bad parents, this is true and allowing "little Johnny" to dictate the household is one thing, but I think it's irresponsible not to determine what the reasons are behind his discontent. To immediately call" BS" may not be in the best interest of the child who is struggling and refusing to go to the non-custodial parent's house and in fact, it might be a dangerous and irresponsible stance to take. Every case is different but let's not be so blind. There are rotten parents who care nothing about the emotional or physical needs of their children. There are parents who are so narcissistic, that even a child can sense it--The "encouraging" custodial parent doesn't have it easy either, often times turning into a liar to the child who is forced to visit, and into the adult who can't protect them or be their voice---and it's a horrible, horrible thing to witness, both for the child but also the parent who feels helpless to fix it. But it is heart-wrenching to watch as a mother has to force her hysterical six year old to go with their father. It shouldn't be that way. Now, we all know It's not illegal to be a narcissist, to be uncaring, to be emotionally "vacant" or even mildly physically abusive. It's sad to think that when the children have made it home alive, you sigh in relief. So when you call BS, be sure you've done due diligence for the CHILDREN. I agree that children should respect both parents and this should be encouraged. Have you ever watched while a child you love is forced into a situation that is causing horrible emotional and physical stress, watched while Mom lies to them just to calm them down while understanding that part of the problem is that they know she is lying and they know she has no power over the situation. Then a larger problem occurs, who then CAN they feel safe with? WHO is actually there to protect them? And god forbid, you don't want to hash out all the reasons in court in an attempt to solve the problem because you fear someone will call "BS" on you. This "BS defense, i.e. "little Johnny doesn't want to go" defense is not one that you should be so quick to use. Fathers, mothers, lawyers and judges need to find a way to always put the CHILDREN first. If a child is resisting it could be due to something as little as I want to spend time with friends during my school break in which case parents should be encouraged by the courts to be flexible. Kids were not built to be raised in two households, especially when there are long distances between the parents and even more so when they are little. But also, I worry that more severe cases like abuse or other trauma will be overlooked with this "defense." Accusations of abuse or neglect are more often just being looked at as some tactic between disgruntled divorcees and not taken seriously at all. For instance, it is a well known that in certain district courts in FL, if a mother brings up any allegation of abuse (even if there is real abuse) the courts (certain judges) will award the custody to the father as a form of punishment. So the mothers are fearful to report or fight for the safety of the children, don't report, and the children are put at risk every time they visit. This type of "justice" is forcing the mother to choose the lesser of two very horrible evils. Where is the justice for the child in this instance? As far as the children who don't want to visit or who refuse--- put yourself in a kid's shoes-- they didn't ask to be pulled from one parent to another and although divorce has become a social "norm" and adults seem to move on from their ex, children have a more difficult time of it and the adults need to be adults and help them transition by truly listening, not taking offense and doing what they can to soften the blow, even if that means eating a little crow sometimes.
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Jillian

July 2, 2013 at 4:18 pm

Hi Although I am a grown woman and my visitation with my father is no longer an issue, it pains me to read that you feel a child should "have to" visit the non custodial parent. My father did not physically abuse me but he never behaved like a dad. He showed up when he wanted and then had me sit in a bar having a soda while he drank the day away. He passed out in a movie theater one day and I watched the same movie 3 times since the ushers could not wake him up. When he remarried I "was just another kid" along with his new wife's two daughters. There was no special connection with my father at all. As I grew older , he divorced and married a 3rd time. He began to tell me how dumb I was and how much I reminded him of my mom. Long story short...I didn't want to visit him but I "had" to and my mother did as the court instructed. No one in the court cared what I thought or felt. I couldn't play with my friends or on my softball or bowling teams when I was with him. It's sad that you take the "bullsh&@t" attitude towards the children and the and the custodial parent. Try to put yourself in the mind of these children. I wish that you had some "life" experience with divorce and children. Each case is unique. Try to have a little sympathy for the children. You are being very foolish. Perhaps you should change careers since this current one does not appear to be the right fit.
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EW

July 4, 2013 at 11:21 pm

As the custodial parent of four, I resent the "bullshit" my children have to go through every other weekend when I pack them up (at my expense since their father is thousands of dollars arrears on court ordered child support since re-prioritizing his life for pregnant wife and her three children) for the journey across state to visit the NCP simply because I do the right thing and follow court orders. It pains me when my teen daughter comes home to report she is expected to babysit her stepmother's children so she can sleep, read, and build her direct sales business while their father does things with the woman's children. She doesn't want to go, resents it, and I still make her go~ all the while struggling to pay the bills without support because "Daddy" has a new family. And yes, I am taking him to court, for what it's worth.
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Gregory Forman

July 5, 2013 at 7:35 am

My point wasn't that there aren't certain parents who don't merit having visitation with their children. My point is that it's up to the courts--and not the custodial parent or the child--to make that determination.
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redbear762

July 5, 2013 at 8:48 am

Jillian, I sympathize with your situation - he sounds like a crappy parent. For those of us who have had to suffer through PAS and hostile influences on our kids, the call for a kid to see or not see a parent needs to be outside of the call of the child; because he was told by his mother to not see me 4 years ago, my 17 year old namesake and favorite child is utterly lost to me now and the grief, pain, and loss I feel when I think about Ian is more then I can stand. The call to let custodial parents decide who the kid sees or doesn't see *is* utter bullshit.
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Mitzy

July 6, 2013 at 8:45 am

It is up to the courts? Yes, because everyone should have a life plan decided in ten minutes before a judge and spend 10,000.00 to have people that know nothing about you or your situation decide what is "best for the children". PLEASE. There is no justice in the justice system. It is all about who is the better or more convincing liar, has the most money, or the best ie more aggressive or capability of manipulating the court docket, attorney or how much "time" is left on overbooked dockets, due in large part the push in our society for NO determination as to what is right or wrong, ethical or unethical and attempt to uncover "truth" that really IS in the best interest of a child, not an immature, self serving "all about me" mother or father. Apparently many individuals are "serial" marriage malcontents who procreate then divorice and then neglect the offspring type of folks. These situations are over looked as being part of the problem. Many many of these so called "best interest parents" are on their fourth and fifth go rounds with this cycle of life described above and no one even checks as to if they are ALREADY contemptous of a former "divorce" or being a "repeat" make a family, abandon a family and don't support mold. Clearly . This is pompus behavior on the part of the court system that is overwhelmed cause everyone is thinking of themselves, and how to turn justice into a money market profit producing system, like our political system. You, sir, are very naive, and clearly part of the problem. Anyone can reproduce. It takes much more to be a parent....It takes much more introspect of self, to include family court, to be serving the "best interest of children". This pompus coming from a system that believes murders, pedophiles, and wife abusers have the same rights as those who do NOT do these things.
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Mitzy

July 6, 2013 at 9:22 am

Malcontent manipulators or the serial marriage/divorice (when it isn't all about them) procreate divorice type know full well how to 1. Keep their "backgrounds" secret from potential (usually younger) next wives/husbands. 2. Are very familiar with how to manipulate (yes, even the high courts) 3. Manipulate weaknesses in the judical system 4. Wouldn't comply with "rules" irregardless of the punishment (wake up there is none, not even for perjury) in family court 5. Will take "family money" right out of the mouths of babes to be able to "walk" from responsibilites of life and parenthood. 6. Turn into indegents until other just give up and decide the money (or credit) they have remaining is best spent ON the children, than in the court system. These "serial" types clearly know this...and NONE of this behavior is even remotely in the interest of children, to include a responsible parent even thinking to teach a child right from wrong in regards to responsible behavior in society, as that might cause them to lose their children all together. And one wonders why "abused" women/or men of which there are far too many.......stay with the abuser? You know it is the keep your enemies close.......mentality of survival. No fault/no consequence societies equal anarchy. We need to wake up and fast as patterns are being set that are NOT in the interest of our society as these victim children of the system are the future of our society.
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Mitzy

July 6, 2013 at 9:39 am

The biggest injustice is the cost of justice.
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Mitzy

July 6, 2013 at 10:03 am

The reality is documentation is key. So we are told, those of us who truly do know what is "fair" or just MUST be proven, not just heresay. Unfortunately, once in the system NO one, CARES about your documentation. NO one. No child has a voice that isn't stiffled by the system. If they voice, they have been coached. Ever hear "out of the mouths of babes?" Abuse breeds abuse and if we send children into "who cares about you" situations of ANY kind...like on airplanes to far places and homes they do not know....we are abusers. Kids are NOT more resilent than adults. That is a lie....what adults would never inflict on themselves we as a matter of rule inflict on kids, through the family court. Is the world upside down?
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Justice

July 6, 2013 at 1:05 pm

I totally agree with Mr. Foreman. (keep in mind he also states if no abuse is involved). I have been through this personally and now with my step-son. The courts made the right decision for my parents in the 70s. They had me stay with my father (and I am female) and looking back, this was the best decision. I have a wonderful relationship with both my parents now, and am a responsible adult. I feel if I was put with my mom at the time, my life would have been different and may not have turned out as positive. Now with my step-son, if the courts had not stepped in, we would NEVER get to see him. His mother hates his father and that was her main reason to pull some of the things she has. She has tried to take away our vacation time, our Christmas time, some of our weekends. She has said that my step-son doesn't want to spend vacation time with us and tries to use that as an excuse to keep him away. Why would she have a 7 year old at the time make these decisions? She always states that his step-dad is a better dad and she is very hateful. My husband pays child support every month (for those who may think that is the issue). She takes him back about every other year to try and get more money. Thank God the courts could see right through what she was trying to do and give us time to spend with him. He has a wonderful time with us and we have no problems when he is with us. It is the custodial parent that we had the problem with. I think this is Mr. Foreman's point.
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Fritz J Ethridge

July 18, 2013 at 8:05 am

Dear Sir, I completely disagree with you. You seem to assume that simply because someone provided an or a sperm that they are good parents. If you don't like someone, do you think that the courts should order you visit them. If someone makes you feel uncomfortable, brow beats you, harasses you, and provokes you, should the court determine that you have to spend the next 15 months of your life under their yoke until you could divorce them. My grandson, who has spend his entire life with us, plans to do just that if the court is so foolish as to give him into the care of a father who has never been there for him and his third wife, a women only seven years older than him who just in the past month got off of probation for driving under the influence of marijuana. Both of which are out of work, and living in my younger brother's house. I think that you would probably be much kinder to yourself than you seem to imply that you would be toward child. I
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Gregory Forman

July 18, 2013 at 8:19 am

I don’t “assume that simply because someone provided an or a sperm that they are good parents.” I assume they are a parent and as such have a responsibility to support that child–a responsibility that the state will incarcerate them for not meeting. Given that responsibility, such parents also have the right to a relationship with the child until the state (i.e., the courts–and not the other parent) decides that relationship is too damaging to the child to preserve. One hears a lot from woman unhappy with the parenting skills of the baby daddies they so recklessly conceived a child with. Few of my out-of-wedlock custody/visitation cases involve children who were deliberately conceived and most of them involve children conceived from unprotected sex. The law is simply no longer designed to protect mothers from these consequences of irresponsible procreation. In the past it was, but the consequences of that system, which I have blogged about here, are no longer consequences our society is willing to tolerate.
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Stephanie

July 28, 2013 at 2:08 am

Um... so only women are responsible for unplanned pregnancies, huh? Yep, you're a douchebag. Thanks for confirming that. Phew... I almost took this shit seriously...
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redbear762

July 29, 2013 at 5:19 am

@Stephanie, take the time to actually read what George is writing and the context of the conversation and you *might* actually learn something. The primary issue here is kids who say 'I don't want to see daddy' because the mothers hold some vindictive streak against the men they had kids with. My POV, not George's: Given the woman's movement over the last 40+ years and it's Feminist chant of 'her body, her choice' and the wide availability of contraception, it could be strongly argued that the 90/10 burden on contraception IS on the woman today. Ergo, if a woman is irresponsible enough to have a child out of wedlock because she refused to use birth control then blames the man for the pregnancy and convinces the kid that 'daddy is a bad man' so the kid refuses to see him, that's bullshit. That's a mother using her kid as a proxy for her anger.
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Amanda T

July 31, 2013 at 10:55 am

I found your article interestingBut, I would have to agree with the numerous comments that say that we should not be so quick to call this "bullshit" when the custodial parent says that the child(or children as in my case ) do not want to go. yes we make kids do things they dont want to do all the time...eat veggies, brush their teeth so on and so forth, but I think that we should not be comparing these things to a bond a child feels with a parent.Pleasehear me out..I have been going through a horrible, nasty custody situation for over 6 years now. I am the custodial parent, I live in VA and I have 2 sons. My ex is a major in the military and feels he does not get enough time with his children. when we first seperated he had free run of the house and could come and go as he pleased, and visit the boys whenever he wanted. Then, my sons started returning upset, saying that dad was telling them mommy was going to die because she was an evil person, no one liked mommy...you get the picture. So, we got scheduled visitation set up and a Guardian ad litem. But, my sons were still returning upset from visits . well I did everything I was supposed to do and told therapists, the guardian, his command, the chaplin, ACS...I did everything I could because I knew something was not right. nobody would listen to me and my fears for my children were pushed aside as,"a vindictive ex wife trying to get back at her ex." So, I countinued, per the guardians advice, to force my sons to go with their father. I watched them cry hysterically when they went with him, vomit in the car as they left, and eventually they both became suicidal threatening to kill themselves if they had to go with him again. (that was finally when the courts thought..gee maybe something is wrong.)as it turns out, the boys were too afraid to tell anybody about the emotional and physical abuse they were having to endure when they went to visit their father, because they knew there was another visit scheduled 2 weeks away and were afraid of what he would do to them if they did say something. I understand what you are trying to say, but please, please try to hear my side of this. I cannot tell you how helpless I felt as a parent, to know that something was wrong when my kids went to visit their father...and not be able to help them. to be told over and over again that "he has rights too." Children are young and they need direction...but they are not stupid and they know when something is off. Thankfully, my sons are 13 and 14 now and are speaking up for themselves and people will actually listen..but I cant help but feel sorry for them, and all the years of their early childhood that were lost because the courts said they had to go.
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Yep

August 24, 2013 at 1:49 am

“if a woman is irresponsible enough to have a child out of wedlock because she refused to use birth control then blames the man for the pregnancy”… blah blah blah… Why men are refusing to create and use birth control themselves? Meaning, why don't they swallow pills, wear patches and so forth? You made it sound like it is only woman who is responsible for preventing a pregnancy. And the guys are so innocent; they have nothing to do with it. Are women holding a gun to their head and saying “give me you sperm, now. I want to get pregnant, and if do not impregnate me I’ll shoot you”? You sure know how to joke.
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Shebraqtynat

August 26, 2013 at 8:17 pm

Well here's my 2 cents. I challenge all the non-custodial parents to simply ask their children how they feel. My wife's ex refuses to even broach the subject. He already knows the answer. Thus the good question is not the foolish questions of Mr. Forman. Comparing visitation to having sex with your boy/girl friend...please. Yet, comparing it to school...very good. Yes we force our children to do a lot of things. Many of the things Mr. Foreman mentioned are things we have someone else willing to work with us or some kind of proof to back up why it is a good course of action. For example : GO TO SCHOOL - how many things are published about the benefits of school. The teachers will usually work with a sincere parent who wants to "force" their kids into school. And the same can be said about vegetables, brushing your teeth...etc. However, with a non-custodial who is just frustrating a child ( not abusing ), denigrating an ex mate or simply not parenting, cannot possibly be in the best interest of the child. So, Mr. Foreman, before you throw your questions at the custodial parent, how about you ask the non-custodial this one question - Have you discussed your child's wishes about visitation? I guarantee most non-custodials avoid asking because they now the answer and they know they caused it to happen. Tell the non-custodial who is danger of losing or having their visitation reduced to have heart to hearts with their children. Even if a custodial is "poisoning their minds", the non custodial can work hard by applying an antidote with good communication with the child. Short phone calls, little text messages expressing love, little note stuck in their pocket with 5.00 for an ice cream cone or any other small expression of love. Unfortunately, the non custodial wants to get even with the custodial just as much as the vice versa. And left as victims are the children. LET THEM SPEAK AND LISTEN.
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Shebraqtynat

August 26, 2013 at 8:23 pm

So...can the child protect his/herself from the irresponsible procreation by having a say? I agree, the custodial should not be the one to make this decision or push it onto the court. But, the children need to be heard. The court does not exercise its ability to bring in secondary counsel or a Guardian Ad Litem enough. And that is a shame. Sorry, the court system is more of a fast food restaurant instead of fine dining. The kids foot the bill for fine dining but end up with a crappy cheeseburger.
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Oh please

August 31, 2013 at 3:55 pm

Maybe the non-custodial parent doesn't ask because they know the custodial parent tries to brainwash the child due to anger/bitterness towards the non-custodial parent. Why give a young child that type of responsibility? I am a custodial parent and my husband is a non-custodial parent and I have never seen such BS when it comes to the custodial parent. We did have to go to court and still at times have to fight for what we already have. The child has a great time with his father. The mother is very bitter and angry, so in this case and what Mr. Foreman is stating is that if it were up to the custodial parent, we would NEVER see the child. Everything is more important, we hear all the excuses. It is horrible what some custodial parents will say to their children. Wait till that child grows up and wonders why their other parent wasn't around.
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deb

September 1, 2013 at 3:54 pm

My ex of 20 years, left my son and I in excruciating debt, had been seeing a coworker for over a year, I was going thru breast cancer at the time, resulting in a mastectomy and 2 more surgery to complete after he had left, my child who is14 now went through all of this . I have two adult children from a previous marriage, and 4 grandchildren, who my son and I have no contact with, my daughter considers me dead and my older son is not involved, nothing wrong until my ex left, my entire family won't talk to me, but my ex gets to and his family are included in all family functions, including my own family, I am the custodial parent, I encourage 14 year old to see his dad, but he chooses not to be involved in this disturbing situation, he has explained to his dad, why, but dad refuses to hear him. I feel forced, as well as our son, we have to go to court, again, all because my ex has to prove he's the controller, and "because he can". There is no justice, in the justice system for a child, only alot of pain, confusion, and force, over a situation, that should not have ever occurred!! So, tell me this, how can a court decide, " What is in the best interest of the child", when they don't even know the history or why????? "Because they can"!!!
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Andreas

September 8, 2013 at 12:20 pm

I find the argument valid the lawyer presents. I'm possibly facing this exact situation. I pay my child support, and my ex feels that it's not enough. She doesn't work, and she wants more from me. She can work, and she chooses not to. Now she feels that since I won't help support her that my rights as a father no longer apply. She is refusing to let me see my daughter. Telling me any excuse she can think of, and the line of the child doesn't want to see you is starting to become the excuse of choice. I talk to my daughter and when asked the question does she want to visit me she always says yes and I miss you daddy. I'm building up my documentation, unfortunately I live in a different state than my daughter. Next scheduled parenting time I will fly to the state where the mother is and I will get the police involved. If that doesn't work I will drag her to court. I know that the state would do the same thing to me if I stopped paying child support. It's not the mothers decision to curb my rights. I know all the custodial parents on this site have the right to financial support for the child. However I also postulate I have a right to visitation. If I'm a bad influence on my child that is the custodial parents responsibility to curtail my visitation rights thru the courts. As it is my responsibility to support my child. It's not the custodial parents right to deny the other parent visitation without the courts consent. I know there are bad parents out there, and I know that the courts are a pain to deal with.
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Marie

September 9, 2013 at 9:31 pm

This is long but is will explain why I am one that decided to keep my kids away from my ex at a certain point and time. It did not start out that way. I am a mother of 3 who divorced when my youngest was just 8 mos. I tried very hard to make life for my kids as if they had 2 parents with a good relationship. He was invited to their school events. Birthdays etc.But he was having none of that. For some reason he could not seperate his anger with me from the kids. He got my children every other weekend and every wed. in the beginning. We had a child with epilepsy and every medical bill I ever handed my ex was thrown back in my face. I would meet him at the designated spot only to have him accuse me of not being there when I was. Only because he didn't see me. He would get out threaten to hit me, yell at me and when I got back into my vehicle to get away from him he kicked my van door in and did $800.00 dollars worth of damage. This was back in 1994. I was constantly being accused of child abuse by him. I found out by my 2 oldest children that he was sitting them down and interrogating them about me and recording everything they said. I tried very hard to tell my children that what went on at his home was his buisness and what went on at mine was mine, unless it was harmful to them I did not want to hear them complain about him. However my children, especially my son had valid complaints. My ex would leave my youngest locked in a room and when she had to go to the bathroom he would not get her out to let her go. My son would get her out and take her to the bathroom. She was almost 2. One day my son got her out and put her on her dads bed and let her pee on the bed. My ex's wife would drop my children off at the library when they were only 8. 6 and 2 and leave them there while she shopped. When I found out I hit the roof, but yet I was the one being accused of being abusive. Still I tried to make things work. I did eventually become friends with her, but mostly because when my kids visited their father for the summer I would send them presents and I sent her kids presents as well. I never want a child to feel left out. I moved the kids to a Dallas metroplex a year later to be around my parents. His anger was duly noted. However I made sure I always met him the only thing that changed was the wed visits. I invited him to the kids concerts and birthdays but mind you he never ever came to any not even when we lived close. I was mom and dad to my kids even when we were married. My oldest and youngest had medical issues and when my ex came to the hospital the only way he would stay is if I left. I was not about to leave my children. Once he even decided that he would bring his new girl friend to meet my youngest when she was in the hospital for menigitis. I did pitch a fit because she was sick and it was not the place or time. When my son had surgery they had to cut his pants off and his underwear off. I had to leave my car at a different hospital and rode with my son in the ambulance to the childrens hospital. I asked my ex if he would go buy my son some underwear and because of that he got mad and left. When I say left I mean left and went back to his home in Gatesville. When my son was 14 my ex married for the 3rd time and this woman was crazy.He met her on the net and married her 3 mos later. She accused my son of trying to poison her by putting bleach in her insulin. My son called me crying to come get him because his dad had the police interrogate him. They threatened him that if anything happened to anyone in that family even if my son wasn't there they would put my son in prison. I told my ex I was coming to get my kids and he didn't want me to. I told him they were not staying there in that hostile situation. I did not let my kids go back to see him until this situation was resolved. We went to court. I proved that if you put bleach in insulin it turns it orange, so for her to inject herself with orange insulin means she is plain stupid or lying. I did alot of investigating on this woman and with the help of my lawyer we found that she had shot herself in the stomach and thrown herself down a flight of stairs. Yet my ex believed this woman over my son. My ex decided he wanted custody of my children and was trying to do so when we went to court over this issue. The judge told him he needed counseling and his wife was suicidal. He divorced her 3 mos later. The judge also ordered him to come to Dallas to see his kids. No he did not live far away, only a couple of hundred miles. However my kids did not want to see him. But I did make them see him for a time. After awhile he just stopped coming. Even before this happened though he was accused of beating my son in the front yard and I stood up for him with CPS and telling them he didn't do that. I found out that his wife (3rd) at the time was the one that accused him but she called in stating it was me that accused him. Why would I clear him If I accused him I asked him. Then he told the courts he was disabled got his child support lowered to $250 a month and then went back to work after that. I didn't have the money to take him back to court. My youngest did decide that she wanted to start seeing him again and as soon as he got her for the summer one year when she was 12 he filed for custody of her immediately. It took me 6 mos to get her back. During that time he had her calling me every name under the sun, and I could never talk to her without him being right there on the phone and btw he was on his 4th wife by now. He had her calling her Mom and created a hostile relationship between my daughter and me. When I got my daughter back, she told me about a role over accident that she had been in. I could not figure out why she was so afraid to be in a car. He told her not to tell me. When she told me I was on my way to take her for a visit. I stopped, called him and told him we were not coming even though we were almost there. If he could not tell me important things like that he was not a responsible parent. He got her on the phone and told her that she betrayed him. He has never been the same with her since. How do you tell your child they betrayed you. He is the adult not her. She did try go to live with him at the age of 17 with him promising her a car. Once again he had her calling me names and when she graduated from high school he kept me from coming. I raised my kids and he had her this one year and he thinks he raised her. While she was there he told her that she was not his child, as soon as she graduated he took her off insurance and took the car away and kicked her out of the house. How do you do that to your child. She went from home to home for awhile until I found her. I brought her home and she stayed for a little while but went to her dads for a visit with her sister and decided she wanted to stay with her sister for a bit. Her sister decided to move to colorado and my youngest decided to move in with a guy. She ended up leaving there and coming home but now she is Pregnant. I read a note she wrote the other day to her baby. She says now she can have someone who will love her for her. My poor baby is hurting so bad and I can't make her understand that I am always there for her. She is not making good decisions but I know that I am not what she wants. She wants her Dad to love her. So did I make the right decision in not letting her be around her dad from time to time. Yes and I wish I had kept him away from her for good, because all he has done is hurt her and my son. The only one he has anything to do with is my oldest daughter. He gives her anything she wants, but she plays him. It makes me angry that she plays him. I cannot give them everything they ever wanted or needed except for love, and I don't buy my childrens love. I am honest and true with them.
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Valerie

September 23, 2013 at 1:03 am

Thank you for calling it what it is. My husband was a young dad and tried very hard in court to keep visitation with his son. His son was 5 when we started dating, 10 when we married. I always looked at him like a son and I think that is why after we had our daughter it hurt so bad when he didn't want to come over anymore. When he was 13 and our daughter was 1 his mother became unreasonable with my husband always making excuses why his son couldnt come over. Not answering the phone for days to avoid planning a pick up time. Being out of town on fathers day the one holiday that should be always for the dad. Yes she is married with 2 other children but it is his day. Things got so bad and the son would get so upset with his dad for giving his mom a hard time they both started to threatening him. Saying " go away or I'll tell the lawyer things! " what things????? Then one day she starts texting my husband with Tell your wife she better never hit my son again. I was crushed. I couldn't believe my step son would go along with that, but he loves his mom and he will do anything to make her happy. We haven't seen him in almost 3 years we now have a 5 year old and a 18 month old. He is now calling asking for a car and insurance, and the mom is calling us cheep because we can't afford it. The court didn't care about my husbands rights it felt like my husband could be threatened and treated like nothing because he was the non-custodial parent. All they seemed to care about was how much money they can take but give nothing in return. All he wanted was to not lose that communication, keep seeing him and maybe things would turn around. She wouldn't even bring him to the therapist we payed for. The court asked her why he didn't go and she reply "he didn't want to." At this point our only wish is one day we will get a real call from this young man that involves more then money, but he learned from his mom to treat men like a piggy bank. Yeah.... More to the story but I'll leave those parts out.
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Rick

October 16, 2013 at 10:10 am

I like the 'BS' call, and believe that it has merit. [Wayne County, Michigan] 8yrs ago there was a consent order that awarded me parenting time 6pm Friday - 7:30am Sunday every week with my daughter and son. I keep a journal of all the weekends that my daughter and/or son has not been with me, no parenting time. The excuse for each case are routinely "we are going up north with family this weekend, your son wants to spend time at a friends house, your daughter is babysitting this weekend" or that my daughter has athletic events on the weekends, to which were decided, enrolled without my knowledge/consent. To date (Jan - Oct 2013), I have not had parenting time with my daughter for 22 weekends... I'm going to take my journal of dates and text messages to court with me and pray that the 'system' provides some form of justice on my behalf. Allowing the children and their mother to make these decisions is wrong.
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Yvonne

October 30, 2013 at 11:15 pm

Although some valid points are made in this article, I don't consider it BS to let my children decide if they want to visit their father. I have an 8 year old son and 11 year old daughter, and there are times they want to visit (and do visit). Other times they don't want to visit. Each time either of my two children express a desire to remain at home, I let their father know in advance and encourage him to call and discuss with them reasons they don't want to visit. Each time he declines to talk with them. I personally am not forcing my children to go someplace they do not wish to go. Their father lives in a small one bedroom apartment, and they have to share a pull out sofa. They don't feel comfortable sharing a bed. There are also times that their friends have events they wish to attend. I have often been accused by him of keeping the children from him. However, he has never objected to them staying at home, and I have never denied them visits when they want to go. Their father attends their extra curricular activities each week, but doesn't really communicate with them other than their weekend visits with them. When they visit they have a good time with the activities but not the living arrangements. I think each situation is different, and should not all be lumped into one category.
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Karen

November 10, 2013 at 3:45 pm

I'm really surprised no one has said this yet. When my 15 yr old daughter didnt want to visit her father anymore and was threatening suicide if she was made to go I certainly wasn't going to make her go but I put her in counseling and invited her father to be involved. He flat out refused. I was shocked. Why wouldn't he want to try to help his daughter work through her issues and hopefully return to her visitations? No, the way he dealt with it? He went to court and tried to take her from me. It didnt work but he did talk our 12 yr old daughter into moving to his house. It's been three yrs. he's never seen or spoken to the older daughter and he's managed to completely alienate the younger one from me. I've hired a lawyer and I'm trying to get court ordered counseling for me and my younger daughter. She's been told by her dad that I kept her sister from her dad, he loves her and I should have made her visit him so she's not going to visit me. So this is obviously payback in his mind. I feel like I did the right thing by getting my daughter into therapy and inviting her father. I have proof. I've shown it to my younger daughter. She won't even speak to me now. I'm completely heartbroken. This is a very painful thing to go through!!
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Mr. Step Dad

November 11, 2013 at 9:33 am

Being a step dad to two amazing boys, I am appalled at the behavior that goes on between two adults when it comes to the kids. I married into a situation that had been out of control for years. To watch my wife then girlfriend be bullied and manipulated by such a jerk and loser was painful. However, I made it a point to stay out of it because we were not married and it was not my problem. However, once we married, all bets were off. I refused to allow this chump to bully my wife, especially since we have a child together. I would never refuse him the boys because he is thier dad and he should see them, but beyond that, he can kiss my a**. He pays his measly $500 a month in child support and acts like he king shyt. Pays no medical or health care expenses, no trips, no sports for the kids, no extra's, I mean nothing. Me on the other, I pay it all. The xbox games, trips to the snow, nice home, nice cars, dinners out, new clothes, etc. And you know, I would not change a thing. I love my wife and kids. They are my life. What does the ex loser have? broken dreams and a ton of regrets. Do the kids want to see thier dad? I think so and they should. Yet, they are hesitant because of his behavior. He is a first class southern redneck who acts like a bully and treats women like dirt. In the end, he will be the same loser ten years from now that he is today. My encouragement for all you parents and step parents having to put up with a real drama king or queen, one day it will end. Just enjoy your life today because it is way to short. Besides the best revenge is looking good.
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Marshall Taylor

November 22, 2013 at 2:06 am

However there is this A**hole that my current wife was married to. Me and my wife met on the net while we were both going through a divorce. I have 5 daughters (3 grown and 2 living with me) and live in texas, she has 2 grown boys and a daughter that lives in Indiana. she gave up everything to get out from under his abusive behavior, and all though he was abusive to my wife, he "WAS" a good father. upon leaving her x husband she discussed who her daughter wanted to live with with her daughter ( they were very close) my wife didn't want to up root her daughter from her school and friends so she left her with her father. now her father has turned their daughter against my wife blaming her for leaving her. he and his new live in GF Block our phones so my wife cannot talk to her daughter and use it as punishment on my wife if she says something her x don't like. he has cut short every visitation my wife is supposed to have and makes it difficult. now he has their daughter convinced she does not have to come to Texas if she doesn't want to. he has told my x wife she must come to Indiana to see her daughter. yes...I call BULLSHIT! I say throw my wife's x in jail for contempt and order her daughter to come like it or not! However Money for an attorney is a factor so what does she do...
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Sarah

November 23, 2013 at 12:22 am

I found this thread after my 14 yr old refused to go with her dad this afternoon. The relationship between them has been toxic for years and he was physically, emotionally and sexually abusive to her when we were still married. I caught him deliberately exposing himself to her on two occasions when she was about 5 and when I asked what the hell he was doing he ran out of the room w/o a word. Anyway, the abuse and toxic relationship has continued and gotten worse. When she's with him I get a steady barrage of text messages and phone calls about how unhappy she is. We've been to court a lot and he constantly threatens me with more court action. My approach to visitation is that I get everything packed and I meet him at the appointed time and place and then I stay in the car and let them hash it out. She always says she doesn't want to go and i tell her I have a court order to get her packed and get her to the drop off on time. After that she's on her own - as far as whether she goes or not. Frankly, I can't make her go with him and I've told her that. I am not going to physically shove her into the back of his car and even if I were the type of person to do that she's too big now for me to be able to. So today I got her there, I put her suitcase on the side walk and she started arguing with him. I stayed and said nothing. I sat in my car and was texting a friend. I didn't want to leave b/c I wanted to make sure she went with him - she's threatened to run away. Apparently he shoved her at one point and someone called the police. I didn't see it happen - but I suddenly looked up and a cop was asking me to get out of the car and show my I.D.; I did and my ex started waving his court order around. The cop said to me 'you are violating a court order' I told him that I packed her stuff and brought her here and then stayed out of it while they argued - I didn't want to leave until I knew she was going to be OK though. The cops said nothing to my ex - even though I later found out he'd shoved our daughter and caused a bystander to call the cops. Apparently, as the custodial parent the cops decided I was the bad guy in the situation. Before the cops got there I heard my ex yelling at our daughter that if she didn't go with him that her mother (me) would 'be arrested' and in 'big trouble.' She was crying. I felt so bad. After the cops talked to me they talked to my daughter and she was crying and they told her she had no choice and that she had to get in her dad's car and go with him. It's a no win situation for me. They don't get along and never have. He's an abusive parent - and yet the court has ordered these visits. I'm trying to comply by getting her packed and getting her over there on time - but I'm blamed when she doesn't want to go. I have a good relationship with both my kids and i have no idea what it would be like if they didn't want to spend time with me - I can imagine it would be painful. But I also think that if I was in that situation and I had thoroughly examined my own part in the relationship and didn't see anything i could do to improve it - at some point I think I'd let it go. I'm a sensitive person and I really don't want to be around people who don't want to be around me. So, basically I can't understand a NCP whose child doesn't want to be with them - and who yells at and hits or shoves the kid - I can't understand why they persist. I don't understand what the point is. I know where I'm not wanted and if my child didn't want me - and I'd done what I could to improve things - then at some point I'd let it go. I feel so bad for my kids and all kids in these situations. I grew up with a lot of freedom - my parents were overwhelmed with their lives and they basically didn't pay much attention to where I was or what I was doing and I turned out fine. My kids have to live under court orders and have no say in anything and are forced to spend time with someone who is cruel and mean. My own father was pretty abusive but at least I could get on my bike and leave. I stayed with friends and avoided my dad and I never had cops telling me to get in the car and go with him. The court system totally sucks. I've spent tens of thousands - I have so much less money than my ex and he constantly goes to court to try to bankrupt me - it's his own private war - a weenie war against the mother of his children. The system is basically worthless. It's supposed to be about the best interests of the children - but really it's about the best interests of the attorneys, clerks, judges, mediators and most of all the wallets of the child - support paying parent. The best interests of the child are seldom a consideration. My 14 yr old is supposed to be old enough to testify in court - according to the laws in my state - but in reality she isn't allowed to and can only talk to a mediator - and then only if the mediator decides to talk to her. Supposedly it would be too traumatic for her to testify or something. But if she was a 14 year old baby mama in a custody case against the baby daddy then she'd be treated like any other litigant and wouldn't be considered too young to testify. In reality they don't let kids like my daughter testify b/c it impacts the billable hours of the mediators and evaluators and minor's counsels who have to be paid big dollars to represent kids in court - or mis-represent to be more accurate. So, it's basically a corrupt worthless money driven system populated with societal bottom feeders (also known as divorce attorneys and custody evaluators) and the best interests of the kids be damned. Early on I wrote about the instances of abuse that I witnessed only to have my attorney warn me that telling the court about the abuse could actually cause me to lose custody to the abuser - in a complete and total perversion justice. Anyway, the system is worthless and kids like my daughter are being sacrificed.
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December Woods

January 15, 2014 at 10:21 pm

Maybe you should try calling BS on the parents who can't form a bond with their own child, actively make the situation worse, and then expect the other parent to physically force the child into the car. Custodial parents are tired of being the one who have to go through the process of the child refusing to go, the emotional trauma of having that same pointless argument over and over, and hearing how awful the experience was every time they come home. Hold these jerks responsible for forming a positive relationship with their child, and quit putting it on us!
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Charles

January 26, 2014 at 6:02 pm

I am a father who pays $1700/mth in child support and have full visitation rights. My kids (16 and 13 yrs old) have been influenced to beleieve I am a bad father which is absolutely false yet they refuse to come with me. Other than just sucking it up and waiting until they grow up and realize I am a good father what recourse do I have? It's painful to constantly get rejected and have no power to influence them either financially or legally. I would like to be able to stipulate that them refusing to see me is a refusal of me helping them. While I would still provide it would give me SOME control vs NONE.
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redbear762

January 27, 2014 at 8:40 am

I am right there with you and, out my four, I have one who has drunk the purple Kool-Aid and is now *deeply* poisoned by my ex and I grieve for him - it feels like he's died. My other 3 kids are good and 2 are coming to live with me in the Fall. The gross dysfunction of the other parent is hard to capture since many 'walk the line' and are (not so) subtly influencing the child(ren) by covert and overt forms of reward and punishment. Mine bought the kids who didn't see me new clothes and bought the one who did see me with hand me downs from Salvation Army. The courts also place men in a rough spot; if you can pay support, you most likely *can't* pay a lawyer and if you do hire a lawyer you get behind in payment. The system is rigged and there is no justice unless you can afford it so there is no justice for responsible divorced dads who are paying their due.
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Michael

January 27, 2014 at 9:29 am

"If both parents were still together would we let the child override the direction of either parent? Hell no! So why on earth would we allow it to happen when the parents are apart?". While this statement in essence is true, one needs to consider WHY the parents are apart. Is the non-custodial a "loving parent", is there mutual respect? If these things are true, tell me what basis a child would have to refuse to see the non-custodial. In my experience, there is always an underlying problem. You as parents thrust your child into a situation they don't want to be in. They want a SET of parents with them. Especially if that was the family dynamic at birth. Thus reactions, emotions and feelings will be different now that a divorce has occurred. Its called FALLOUT. No custodial parent should encourage a child to disrespect the other parent. But the non-custodial has to realize he/she will have to work harder now that they are limited on how often they are with the child(ren). It is what it is. I have had numerous children in this situation express their feelings on the subject. Everyone of them, each and every one of them use the same expression, "This sucks". Its so unfair to the children when there is a divorce. Two adults who made vows and promises are not capable of sticking to those vows and promises. So before you concern yourself too much about what will happen to them when they turn 18 because the custodial allows them to "override the direction of either parent"...consider the damage that both parents have already done. Give the kids some leeway and understanding while they are part of this new arrangement that the 2 supposedly mature adults caused.
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redbear762

January 27, 2014 at 10:55 am

You're promoting evil behavior here because - assuming no abuse and a loving parent - if you are not ensuring that the child comply with the court order and go spend time with the other parent, you're part of the problem not the long-term solution. My ex used this argument and the result was a poisoned child to the point where it's become a 'death' in my life and I may never see him again. Parents who do this are hurting the child *and* their relationship with the other parent; even if you can't stand them, you need to back them as the other parent. Wouldn't you do that if you were together?
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carrie

January 29, 2014 at 12:02 pm

My ex husband moved out of the USA to Australia. We have an agreement which only allows him 2 weeks in the summer for visitation. For the past 6 years I have allowed him to have her for 5 weeks as long as she was ok with that. Well after he moved to Australia she said she didn't want to visithim and she asked me to convey this to him. I told her this is a huge decision that you may regret so if its something you want to do it will be you that tells him. So she ended up going and was miserable between the long flight and him being out of town for work. Last year she told him that she did not want to go but would possibly do a 2 week vacation with him and maybe they could meet in the middle. He said no. Now he gets 3g business class tickets for him his wife and son to come to the USA and chose not to use them to visit his daughter. I don't see her refusal to go to Australia as an issue. He made his choice and she made hers. She isn't refusing to see him. He's refusing to make time for her with the resources he has.
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carrie

January 29, 2014 at 12:20 pm

When is it the Father's responsibility to create a relationship? I stay out of his relationship with her. I agree a father should stay in his kids life but he applied to work in Australia. He involves her in issues by sending child support to her in her name as birthday gifts and I have to tell her it's not a gift it's child support. I've told him that he is causing a rift between them. But he continues and blames me for his fractured relationship. I am a child from divorce and I have done everything in my power to remember how I felt. I have bent over backwards to save their relationship. I have pleaded with him to be a better father.
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OOT

February 3, 2014 at 9:46 am

Balanced time with both parents is just an ideal held up by the court and by psychologists, who refuse to look at the reality of people's lives and the fact that no one is exactly the same - hierarchies of goodness/badness DO exist in society, in humans. Shared parenting is a crap solution proposed by a psych trend stating that parents' equal shares in any kid's life will magically make it better. Regardless of the quality of a given parent and the life that person provides (not talking money here - talking attention, affection, structure, etc.). My son, for instance, doesn't like visiting his father - cannabis issues and autism, fights with his diseased and bad-tempered live-in girlfriend all the time, etc. If my kid did well with them, and they provided a nice environment for him to grow up in, there would be no issue with sharing parenting. They won't look at themselves in the mirror and wonder why a kid doesn't want to spend time with them, preferring to blame my influence, my unwillingness to turn my eyes aside from the way they live and its effect on my kid. It's almost like we aren't "allowed" to make a value judgment about the other parent's parenting unless s/he's beating the kid to a pulp on videotape. And when the people involved with child custody affairs (judges, etc.) won't look at reality either, choosing instead to adopt formulaic solutions that will make their caseload fly off desks more quickly (shared parenting, forced involvement with dysfunctional parent), they lose credibility with clients of the system who need the system to work for them but can't get any justice. The children suffer for it.
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OOT

February 3, 2014 at 10:04 pm

Balanced time with both parents is just an ideal held up by the court and by psychologists, who refuse to look at the reality of people's lives and the fact that no one is exactly the same - hierarchies of goodness/badness DO exist in society, in humans. Shared parenting is a crap solution proposed by a psych trend stating that parents' equal shares in any kid's life will magically make it better. Regardless of the quality of a given parent and the life that person provides (not talking money here - talking attention, affection, structure, etc.). My son, for instance, doesn't like visiting his father - cannabis issues and autism, fights with his diseased and bad-tempered live-in girlfriend all the time, etc. If my kid did well with them, and they provided a nice environment for him to grow up in, there would be no issue with sharing parenting. They won't look at themselves in the mirror and wonder why a kid doesn't want to spend time with them, preferring to blame my influenc e, my unwillingness to turn my eyes aside from the way they live and its effect on my kid. It's almost like we aren't "allowed" to make a value judgment about the other parent's parenting unless s/he's beating the kid to a pulp on videotape. And when the people involved with child custody affairs (judges, etc.) won't look at reality either, choosing instead to adopt formulaic solutions that will make their caseload fly off desks more quickly (shared parenting, forced involvement with dysfunctional parent), they lose credibility with clients of the system who need the system to work for them but can't get any justice. The children suffer for it.
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Concerned

February 10, 2014 at 9:55 pm

It all started when my step son was beaten by his mother's ex boyfriend (which she STILL denies happening). We filed for emergency custody and were denied because she just simply said "he does not live with us" But, in fact, he did. She told her son to lie to Children protection services and say he fell on toys to get the bruises all down his legs and butt.. we fought long and hard just to get every other weekend and one day a week with him which went ok for a while and now (with in the last year) she witholds him for months at a time. Once, he came to our house saying he was sorry he got grounded from our house and that he missed us! This child is now about to be 7 years old and I just believe he is brain washed. She always says he does not want to come when my husband asks if he can pick up his son. She will not let them have communication. Yet, when he is at our house she insists to call at least twice a day or she will call the cops on us? I believe in the order it says that the other parent is to not interfere? I just think she always has to have a bug in his ear. He is afraid to disappoint his mom. I get it...that's HIS mom. But what she is doing is wrong...keeping him from his father even if he truly in fact is saying he does not want to come is WRONG!! I am sure she doesn't even mention to him when we do try to get him. Is there anything you can do about situations where the child is ultimately getting emotionally abused by being brain washed? because apparently ( in columbus oh) the spouse of your child can beat them and all you have to do is tell little white lies to get out of it,...why would they care if you are getting brain washed?
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katie

March 31, 2014 at 7:47 am

My ex manipulated the entire divorce. I have "temporary medical custody" of my son until his Autism and severe Mental Retardation go away. I get no child support and we are expected to live on 1300 a month. The judge was fine with this. He has custody of our daughter and he thinks my son has a "demon". I am utterly devastated without my baby girl and she is suffering from depression. It's been about 2 months and I've finally recovered from the malnutrition I suffered from at his hands( I have lab reports that show malnutrition). I've moved overseas to live with my boyfriend and he has spent the entire month helping me recover from malnutrition. At some point I will take ex back to court.
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JESSIE

April 2, 2014 at 4:09 pm

I have kids 12 and 14 who no longer want to see their mom. She breaks plates tells them she wants to punch them in their face, forces them to lie to relatives to manipulate things? What way should I go with this? They only see here every other weekend now, which is the most visitation she has had. I really don't want to send them back to that. The younger one is especially sensitive. and the older one has a good head capable of solid independent thought, he no longer wants to be made to spend time with her, but does wish to have a relationship, he wants to have visitation as agreed upon. I feel this is fair last time i got my kids she was ripping up their pictures and telling them she never wanted to see them again. I do think their opinion should be considered in this case. Is there a tasteful way for me to do this?
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carrie

April 3, 2014 at 7:08 am

Jessie As a child of divorce it needs to be the child's decision to cut off ties unless they are put in harms way As a mother of a divorce and a child that does not want to see her father when she was able to tell her dad she did not want to see him. I never want to be the one that took a parent from her. So I would tell them that if they really don't want to see her they need to tell her. That it would be illegal for me to do that. That you will support whatever decision they make 100%. That you can't make this decision for them because it's not your relationship with the mom it's theirs. You could end up in court if she fights but for the most part they are old enough to decide. She could call the police and if the police ask the kids and they say I don't want to go there the police will choose not to get involved. They are old enough to make a decision unless it is based on them being upset because a parent wouldn't give them something or they were being grounded for breaking a rule. Just make sure it is their decision and not yours or later in life they will be angry at you.
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Juli O

April 3, 2014 at 10:48 am

I have a son that is 17 1/2 who went to visit his dad last summer in Florida and that summer he told me he wanted to stay and live with his dad. I was so torn and I had him come home to WA to visit me and his family before the move. My lawyer then told me NO don't put him back on the plane as it had to go to court for the judge to award him to his dad.. well my son was so unhappy and stressed out and so I knew the following summer when he turns 18 I will have no say. Over time while waiting for things to happen with the lawyers I put my son in counseling and he spent more time with his friends and now decides he doesn't want to go visit his dad this upcoming summer. He will be 18 in Aug. Can he make that decision not to go in June? My son also tells me every time he talks to his dad on the phone, his dad will tell him that when he comes to Florida for the summer he never has to come back home to WA and now my son doesn't really want to talk to his dad. I asked my son if his dad might have pressured him to not come back to me last summer and he said he thinks he did. My ex is a very good talker. He knows how to manipulate. I worry every time my kids go to see him they will not return but I never tell them not to go. At this point I think it's best for my 17 yr old to just stay with me over the summer so his dad doesn't pressure him. He is probably using things to make him feel guilty that he doesn't get as much time with him because we live so far away. My oldest graduated last summer and guess what? He is now moving to Florida. Their dad makes really good money and I feel like he works on one child at a time. My youngest says he will always come back home to me. He is 15 1/2 and I feel that it's only a matter of time when he will work on him next. What age do the kids have to be to really make up their minds? I feel like as long as he is paying child support he can make them go but I don't like him planting seeds or pressuring them and I want my kids to come back home as I had them for a reason and that is to raise them. Their dad is the one that left the marriage and had his girlfriend and her daughter move in the day we moved out. Any comments would really help. Thanks
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vero6

April 5, 2014 at 8:07 pm

Hi Me and my boyfriend are going thru something with his ex ..we live in tx he has standerd visitation for his 4 kids and she refuses to let him get them has put a criminal trespass on us so we can't even go to her house to try and get them ...and keeps tellin us that her attorney told her she doesn't have to let us get them.. can a attorney tell her to go against court papers....what can we do...
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Larry

April 5, 2014 at 9:01 pm

For those of you not married and dating someone with kids. My advice is run the hell away from the situation. Unless you have a kid with the person, you are entering a world of hurt and pain. Love is not enough to tolerate the bickering and manipulation you have to endure from a situation that was a mess before you ever arrived. There is nothing wrong with being a single parent, just count the costs of dating one.
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Carrie

April 6, 2014 at 7:00 am

Not all single parents are in constant conflict. I got divorced to stop arguing with my ex. We have had to go back to court but it's an attorney's drama not mine. My kid chose not to visit her and I stayed out of it. My life revolves around me my husband and our kids. As step parents we know our boundaries. There is his relationship with his kids my relationship with my kid. There are issues as expected but we discussed all of this prior to marriage. We knew it would be hard at times but we also knew we could rise above it and still be us separate from the kids.
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Carrie

April 6, 2014 at 7:12 am

I didn't think you could get a criminal trespass on your house. Are you sure it's not a temporary restraining order? Unless a judge has awarded a restraining order or ruled to terminate your visitation she can not on her own revoke visitation. If she does not have approval from the court she would be in contempt of the court order. Did the police charge him or you? Is there reasonable concern that the child being with you would be dangerous ie arrests, drug use, bruises on the child, unsafe home, physical altercations with the mother? You can contact her attorney for explanation of her advice given to the ex. You can file a contempt complaint per visitation order not being followed. You can call the police show them the visitation order and have them contact the ex and have the exchange of the child done at the police station.
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vero6

April 6, 2014 at 12:51 pm

Yes I'm sure it a criminal trespass ..and no there had not been anything or any reason for visitation to be modified and we have been to court for that ..she just does not want him to get the kids...I know she is in contempt of court right now and every time were supposed to get the kids we try and she won't let us..so we go to the police station and get a call sheet...I have asked for her lawyers #but she won't give it to us she says her lawyer will call us ..but has not yet...my question is can a lawyer tell u to go against court papers..basically tellin u to be in contempt of court...also police have told her that he still supposed to be gettin his kids and she could end up in trouble but she doesn't care or listen to there advice...
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carrie

April 6, 2014 at 3:10 pm

No attorney would ever tell their client to go against a court order. They could get disbarred and I doubt the attorney is getting paid enough to risk that. There is no attorney if there was they would get an order that takes visitation away legally. If you can't afford an attorney look online on how to file a contempt of court against her. A lawyer is your best option though they can get results quickly and possibly make her responsible for all legal fees. Any court believes it is in the best interest of the child that both parents be involved and it is better that way. This ultimately will cause the child issues. Get an attorney on Monday the longer you let this go on without being proactive (you've exhausted the police next step) the more upset the judge will be at you as well as her. An attorney can get emergency ruling on visitation while you are waiting for a trial.
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Marc

April 29, 2014 at 2:29 pm

Thank you! Unless the non-custodial parent is abusive, the children should go with them. Many people here seem to not to be able to understand that there are some custodial parents who work VERY hard at trying to make the children hate their other parent. In my situation it started when I asked for a divorce. My ex called my 5 year old son over to her and said "do you know Daddy is leaving mommy for another woman"? It wasnt true, but even if it was, no 5 year old needs to be included in the intimate details of their parents divorce. My ex started a campaign of slander and lies on Facebook and the internet which still hasnt stopped after more than three years apart. She refuses me information about the children's doctor and dental treatment, refuses to even tell me if they have had their annual check-ups. This is all required by the court as we shre joint legal custody. I have called my son weekly for the last couple of years. She NEVER answers the phone, I always have to leave a message and then he used to call back 24 to 48 hours after I called. He would then talk on the speaker phone, in the same room as his mother and his adult half brother and sister. All of this is CLASSIC Hostile Aggressive Parenting. Two months ago my son stopped calling me. When I e-mail a follow up to his mother she tells me she told him but she couldnt make the 7 year old call. When he is with me on visits he is SO happy, but when it comes time to drop him off at home he is a different boy and acts like I dont exist in front of the house. I have been very involved in his schooling, but the mother says this is not true. When I had some concerns about my son at school I contacted his teacher. She said she was glad I was "finally" getting involved, then sent multiple e-mails about how me advocating for my son at school is a "burden" on her and how she "is the mommy" and gets to make the decisions. So she lambasts me for "finally" getting involved in the boys' school, then complains when I do, wants to set up meetings at school when I cannot make it. There are MANY parents out there who actively try to turn their children against the non-custodial parent. It doesnt even have to be overt cursing, swearing and insulting the parent, it can be looks and words of disappointment when the non-custodial parent calls, or scowls and grunts when the non-custodial parent is talked about. My ex, when I e-mailed her and told her it is important for children to keep in contact with both parents told me "he is a smart 7 year old" when she said he doesnt feel like calling. LIke she told me when we were going through the divorce, they will realise I am a piece of shit when they get old and they need to know the truth. So I guess that is why she told my 5 year old son a lie about me on my last day at the house. Some people out there are evil with what they do to their children. They are hurting their children and their futures. With some of the animosity and bitterness I see in some comments here, I think some of these parents are posting comments. Dont think you are not hurting your children when you covertly show disdain about your ex. You dont have to say it directly, your children will read your bitterness and hatred in your actions, body language and voice. You cant type the comments of some here and NOT have it come through in your day to day behavior even if you think you dont. So I am going to be going to court soon, I have to save up the money. I have already spent more than $7,000 dollars on an educational consultant and a lawyer for the educational concerns. She is next and her e-mails and constant poor behavior is going to help greatly in court, I just feel so bad for the boys and what she is putting them through. I just wish I had the money to take her to court now. Every day with a parent out of control like this damages the children.
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Shebraqtynat

April 29, 2014 at 5:03 pm

The NCP can and should still ask the children how they feel. What will it hurt? Maybe there has been some brainwashing...I feel most CP have done this. But without any communication how will the NCP know? False accusations can be overcome with time and sacrifice. Maybe conceding to your child's wishes might be the best course of action. When they get older they will be better capable of seeing the big picture. Now I know that last statement won't sit well with most, if not all, NCP. But consider the alternative. Your battle will be with your children. At least that is how your children will perceive it. Will that draw them closer to you or will it in some twisted way support the CP claims? Young children just can't separate fact from fiction that well. How about talking to the child and apologizing for anything you may, or only perceived, to have done wrong. Find a happy middle ground. For example, the NCP has visitation every other weekend. The child has been truly brainwashed by the CP and now wants NO visitation. NCP says, "I'm sorry you feel that way. Some of the reasons why you feel this way are my fault. (true statement as all divorces involve mistakes on BOTH sides. If you feel that that is not true....then your probably right and YOUR the problem!) Can you please give me a chance? You only have to see me once a month instead of twice a month." After that...BE A BETTER PARENT. Even if you are already a good parent, strive to be even better in some way. Not gifts. Not money. TIME TIME TIME. ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION. SACRIFICE SACRIFICE SACRIFICE. COMMUNICATION COMMUNICATION COMMUNICATION!!! Who knows what will happen. But maybe the child will see you in a different light as it continues to grow up and mature. In time, it's possible they will be willing to go back to the original agreement. This is just a suggestion. And considering the comments of most NCP on this site show that the "force your will on the child" way is not working, why not try a different approach. If you don't want to try something different and insist on continuing to do it the same old way....well then I can see why your divorced.
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Marc

April 30, 2014 at 7:49 am

Shebraqtynat, Sorry, but your comment makes zero practical sense. Your advise, to a NCP whose child is being poisoned against them, is to give the child what they want and play into the hands of the alienator and maybe the child will figure it out in the years ahead? Sorry, no way!! No parent who really cares about their children will abandon them to the alienator (abuser). Your idea is to abdicate your roll as a parent. We know what is best for children. Do you really think a 6 or a 7 year old is in a position to know what is best for them? Do you really think they are able to look at the complete picture, the implications for their future and mental health, and make a choice to cut ties with one of their parents? Of course not!!! The NCP does NOT bow out of their children's lives. The NCP whose children are being brainwashed against them continues the visit and continues to show in their day to day interactions with their children that the alienating parent is lying about them. If the NCP runs away then it validates everything that the alienating parent has said and leaves the children alone with a CP whose is abusive in their alienation of the NCP. In your advice to NCP to be a "better parent" you are working off the assumption that the NCP is not already a good parent. Often that is FAR from the case and puts the responsibility for the alienation not on the person doing the alienation, but the parent who is the victim of it. You mentioned "Time, attention, sacrifice, communication". The problem with that is that the alienating parent is seeking to remove time, attention and communication from the non alienating parent. Your advise is a bit odd considering your advise at the beginning of your screed was for the NCP to cut and run. Which is it? Attention, sacrifice, communication or cut and run? Many parents in this situation has sacrificed a lot. Your intimation is that they have not. Having been the victim of parental alienation, let me tell you there is a lot of sacrifice involved. My boys are now 8 and 9 and I have been sacrificing mentally and emotionally for years because of what the CP is doing!! Your children will NOT see you in a different light if you cut and run and leave them to their abuser. Very often the only picture they have of a normal life is with the NCP because the alienator is so mentally dysfunctional. Fundamentally this is about two parents, one of which is abusing the children and trying to alienate the children from their other parent. Many of these issues pre-date the divorce and separation from the children. We divorced because we saw how many issues the ex has. The divorce, more often than not, causes the parent, who is often mentally ill, to act even worse. What is needed for society, the courts and mental health care providers to realize what is going on and it for what it is, it is ABUSE! These parents are injuring their children no differently if they savagely beat them. Physical scars and pain eventually fade. The mental and emotional trauma these people inflict on their children lasts a lifetime.
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Shebraqtynat

April 30, 2014 at 12:53 pm

Well this is a 2 edged sword. How I understand part of your comment is this : No visitation = No Child Support. Do you agree with the other edge of the sword : Behind in Child Support = No visitation? I feel really bad for the NCP out there. But the truth is, you have no control of children that don't live with you...PERIOD. It stinks...I agree. But it is what it is. The best any NCP can do is hope for a brighter future with their children IN the future. Battling their children on visitation plays right into the CP hands. COMMUNICATE with your children how much you love them. COMMUNICATE with your children how much you want to be with them. And then LISTEN to their responses. I guarantee that each time a brainwashed child parrots the negativity of the CP the NCP goes on the defense and does the same thing back about the CP. The child can immediately see if the NCP is lying about the CP....THE CHILD LIVES WITH THE CP. The reverse is not true. The burden thus will always be on the NCP unless there is a amiable relationship between the parents. IT IS WHAT IT IS. You can fight all you want but in the end you will lose if you don't talk to your child about the subject in a calm non confrontational way. This approach can work despite the age but the topic and terms would.
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Marc

April 30, 2014 at 1:40 pm

Shebraqtynat, wow, I guess I couldnt dislike your comments more. The NCP has no control? Sorry, that is just not the case. In many situations the NCP has joint legal custody with the CP and DOES have control and decision making rights when it comes to healthcare, academics and other important issues in their children's lives. The NCP whose children are being alienated most certainly should not respond in a negative way and expose the children to more abuse that is already being heaped onto them by the CP/alienator. I have been doing this for several years. My ex talks all sorts of crap behind my back to my boys and tells them lies and calls me names. I do not return this as I know this is seriously abusive of the children. I do as little as possible to not bring up her at all and when they do I talk about her respectfully. You can talk in a non-confrontational tone, sure. What also needs to happen is that the courts MUST become more pro-active and issue sanctions against parents who alienate their children. At this point it seems the courts care more about money more than anything else. Dont pay support? You'll end up in jail.....alienate and abuse your child causing life long emotional issues, and not a word is said to you. The courts must start seeing this and holding alienating parents to account for their abuse.
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Carrie

April 30, 2014 at 2:02 pm

First only a small amount of parents use the kids to get back at a parent. Second it takes 2 people to argue so playing victim is useless. Third visitation and custody are completely separate from child support. This is why the court will not hear a custody issue until finances are taken care of. Fourth it's really not easy to turn a child against a parent even if the other parent is bad. It will always bite you if you try. Fifth if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem Sixth it is extremely difficult to get custody changed unless you can show the kids are in danger and that won't be proved with emails between you and your ex.
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Marc

April 30, 2014 at 2:43 pm

Carrie, I dont think it is true that it is only a small amount of parents that use the kids to get back at their ex. You have a study with numbers? Your statement about "it takes 2 people to argue so playing victim is useless". That couldnt be more false. I guess you dont understand that often these parents are obsessed. In my situation I havent made a personal comment to my ex is a year and that doesnt stop her from sending me e-mails that are very personal and insulting. It doesnt stop her from insulting and attacking me in e-mails to the school about the boys. So yes, one person can do it all on their own. As to whether it is easy to turn a child against a parent or not, I would say it can easily be done by an alienating parent who has the children 5 days out of the week. When the alienation is done day in and day out, often with the alienator's family getting involved as well, it isnt as hard as you might think. One parent can try to be part of the solution, but if the other parent is hell bent on alienating their children, regardless of the massive emotional abuse this puts on the children, it still means it is going to be a very difficult situation and the children will suffer greatly because one parents mental illness and drive to punish the other parent. Lets all make a stand and say that we are concerned about the health, mentally and physically, for these children. Hostile Aggressive Parenting is a read threat to children and it will cause children life long emotional scars. No one seems to care about that. Who cares if the children are emotionally scared for life, if they are more likely to abuse drugs or alcohol, more likely to have failed relationships of their own? All that matters is that they dont miss a month of child support, what is happening that will impact them until the day they die, that doesnt mean anything.
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Shebraqtynat

May 10, 2014 at 7:44 am

The NCP can and should still ask the children how they feel. What will it hurt? Maybe there has been some brainwashing...I feel most CP have done this. But without any communication how will the NCP know? False accusations can be overcome with time and sacrifice. Maybe conceding to your child's wishes might be the best course of action. When they get older they will be better capable of seeing the big picture. Now I know that last statement won't sit well with most, if not all, NCP. But consider the alternative. Your battle will be with your children. At least that is how your children will perceive it. Will that draw them closer to you or will it in some twisted way support the CP claims? Young children just can't separate fact from fiction that well. How about talking to the child and apologizing for anything you may, or only perceived, to have done wrong. Find a happy middle ground. For example, the NCP has visitation every other weekend. The child has been truly brainwash ed by the CP and now wants NO visitation. NCP says, "I'm sorry you feel that way. Some of the reasons why you feel this way are my fault. (true statement as all divorces involve mistakes on BOTH sides. If you feel that that is not true....then your probably right and YOUR the problem!) Can you please give me a chance? You only have to see me once a month instead of twice a month." After that...BE A BETTER PARENT. Even if you are already a good parent, strive to be even better in some way. Not gifts. Not money. TIME TIME TIME. ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION. SACRIFICE SACRIFICE SACRIFICE. COMMUNICATION COMMUNICATION COMMUNICATION!!! Who knows what will happen. But maybe the child will see you in a different light as it continues to grow up and mature. In time, it's possible they will be willing to go back to the original agreement. This is just a suggestion. And considering the comments of most NCP on this site show that the "force your will on the child" way is not working, w hy not try a different approach. If you don't want to try something different and insist on continuing to do it the same old way....well then I can see why your divorced.
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Kimberly Bene

May 10, 2014 at 7:45 am

Marc, I can safely say our home would be another situation where you could say the custodial parent did not interfere with the parents ability to exercise their visitation, the other parent just chose not to exercise it. We live in Missouri, my husbands 14 yr old daughter asked to go to school in our school district, her mother said no. She was doing very poorly in her school district, she went (2) years without allowing a change we went to court, (there are 3 kids) at the time the kids were 12, 9, 6 - the judge ruled that daughter could switch schools. Judge also ruled 50/50 custody for all kids. The weekend after hearing 12/2011 in court Mom and her boyfriend kicked daughter out of her house. Since then Mom has refused to exercise any of her visitation. There was a follow-up court date in March of 2012 where court papers were signed agreeing on custody etc, final bill was $$$$$ - since then - Mom has not agreed to anything with daughter will not co-parent at all -- will no t agree to allow daughter to get drivers license - will not agree to let daughter attend college courses - etc... Daughter is now at 3.85 gpa - daughter is still seeing the court appointed counselor - Mom refuses to go to counselor says she is biased because we pay her co-pay --- we have tried everything to create a safe place for daughter to move into a visitation situation with Mom it just doesn't appear it is going to happen - any ideas?
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Jonathan

May 10, 2014 at 7:46 am

Comment: Shebragtynat, Bravo for your neutral comments.I am a non C and I live a very difficult life trying to have a relationship with my children. Can't say I agree with everything but you make some good points. Some bloggers who only criticize everything and see nothing positive they can use need to adjust their thinking. I will probably try some of the things you mentioned. And I get your illustration about the jeans. Little simplistic but it does make a good point. One thing that bothers me is you said you were married twice but you know how to have a happy marriage and raise good kids. But you had to break your "vow" once too. So don't judge us too hard on that one eh.
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SS

May 10, 2014 at 7:47 am

Bravo Marc! I am a CP and a NCP (through marriage). I have never been to court with my ex with our son. He and I get how to co-parent and my 14 year old is turning out to be a fine young man. As with my husband who is NCP, we have gone to court for silly things that could be an easy "yes" answer from the CP. Can we have our son (my step-son) from Friday - Sunday instead of Saturday - Sunday (traveling 12 hours for this every month). We get "No". Why??? Can we have our son for 10 days instead of 7 days so he can go on vacation with us? "No." It is senseless and anger to get back at the other parent and that is so wrong. There is no abuse, pays child support every month, has a great time with us when we see him. We went through the phone call episodes also. When he was 7 we would get the 'it is up to you to nurture your relationship'. OK, let us see him. He is 9 now and back in court because she fills his summers with sports and her vacations so we cannot get any time. We try and work around this. It seems to be getting worse each year. Maybe the CP is fearing he will have to good of a time with us? I just dont get it. We would never try and take him from his mother. We just want to spend more time with him! Why dont some CPs get this???? You dont leave these mature situations up to a 9 year either! We have also been told that we are intruders and disrupt his life. How awful. Some parents forget that it takes two and if he was good enough to breed with then suck up your nasty thoughts and keep them to yourself. Can you tell I get so frustrated when there is actually a caring, loving father who wants to be a part of their child's life but the mother doesnt care??? I cant stand my ex but I NEVER let that interfere with their relationship and we work out schedules together.
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Sheena

May 10, 2014 at 7:49 am

Colleen I feel your pain!!!! My ex is an alcoholic and a drug abuser. Thanks is what I left him, I wanted to protect my kids from the pain I went through as a child with alcoholic parents. He got in trouble as a young adult for drug sales and had prison hanging over his head. He got 3 DUI's within 1 year and got sent to prison for 3 years. I was relieved to know my kids would now be safe from his so called "disease". During his incarnation he was awarded visitation IN PRISON! I was enraged that he made the stupid choices and my kids now had to go to his prison for visits!!! Now he's out and thanks he should just get every weekend and 7 days on and off in the summer. He lives 2 hours away and I have two other babies. I'm angry at what he's put our daughters through and he acts like I'm supposed to forget it all and trust him!! I just can't stomach all of this and I KNOW its only a matter of time before he screws up and I just hope its not with my daughters in the c ar... I'm so scared of letting my babies go with him:(:( but there's nothing I can do...
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terry menefee

May 19, 2014 at 10:33 pm

this is very simple, I have no doubt that no one man has ever been persecuted by aiken county as much as I have. If a teenager were to be given the opportunity to read the many court transcript, they male or female would immediately summarize my case as sex discrimination.  Anyone would. This judge and dss said assuring things to my wife constantly while I got mean looks and sharp hateful coment at every statement.  Again ill say I ask for a drug test because I fear for my life and my sons after numerous drug fueled rages from my wife that were accuring more often constantly.  Most of witch she would not even remember.  My son had grown scared of his mother . My son loved his mother he was just afraid she would hurt him. He called me several times at work to tell me he was hiding out of fear and I could here his mother screaming for him every obscenity known to man. I gave dss and the guardian add litem hours of digital recordings of her doing just that. Recordings she called his cell phone and left voice mails calling him a f bastard. I gave dss and guardian ad litem a signed statement from 5 different people with eye witness to her leaving my son at home at age 10 at night while I was at work to go 3 miles to get stoned and have sex . Three of those witnesed my wife bragging about drugging my child with nighttime cold meds or nighttime Tylenol so he would not awake while she was gone on her sex drug trips. In a house that incidentally burned a month after I filed for divorce. I believe she set fire to it because she could not find her very incriminating diary I had found. I gave the same dss and guardian ad litem letters showing where my wife's sister Deborah Elliott begged me to get a toxin screen, because she feared her sister was trying to poison me and my son because of unexplained prolonged sickness.  I did there was some unexplained chemical in my blood but no proof. My wife read books of murder misterys constantly and watched all she could of them on tv. I stopped eating or drinking anything that had been out of my site and in a month I was well from a sickness I had for two years. My child told these same dss and guardian how he was scared of his mother how he had seen her using powder on a mirror and a straw. That he had took some from her several times and gave it to me when I got home powder in tiny plastic bags,  pills by the hundreds and marijuana at different times. Valery doda one of her friend s gave a statement to these same two dss and the guardien add litem patric McWilliams . A written statement that daniel my son had been dropped of at her house by my wife to spend play time with her children and when she brought him back home at the time my wife instructed that my wife was not there and valerie called me and I was 500 miles away in a tractor trailer . I told her to go  a mile away and look at the local drug dealers house for our gold van. She said it was there,  she heard loud music and beat on the door thinking she was being told to come in she opened the door and what she found was my wife setting on top a man on couch having sex. They were given diary inserts  in my wife's hand writing bragging to her self about having sex with a man and his wife at the same time. My son gave a full description of his mother making regular stops to the cemetery on Hampton street after she picked him up at school for years,  stealing  roses from fresh dirt cover graves and I found these flowers in our house constantly. Also to several dss and gal .My son told of how his mother made him steal candles from bilo numerus time. Sir I could continue with this type of  evidence description that was given to the courts for the rest of this day . My point being this corrupt group of state employees knew without a doubt my wife was unfit in every way before a month of this nearly 3 years was started.  My  son and I both passed a polygraph from out of this county showing we were telling the truth and that was given to the courts. On the drug test. I demanded drug test the wife's attorneys argued it was a insult. I drive a tractor trailer I'm tested so much and I had my employer pepperidge farm s give the court 15 years of good drug test on me all truly by surprise by the department of transportation.  Everyone knows I'm not a drug user. Again I ask for these test. The hair follicle test on my wife came back showing nothing even though she had admitted to smoking pot in court and was on numerous prescription drugs. The lab techs will all tell you that is nearly impossible that everyone shows something that it was like testing a wig . And the judge only ordered a 5 panel test but since I was paying for the test I had paid for the most extensive test they could do..my wife left the court that morning after being ordered to take this test as a blonde with beautiful hair down to the middle of her back when she got to the drug lab with my niece shannon kitts a R.N. my wife's hair was a foot shorter a completely different color and looked like her hair had been in acid,  looked like she had aged 30 years over nite. The day after the test came back I copied a Facebook post of hers bragging about how she had me by the balls thanks to TOXIN WASH . I searched it on the internet and found it advertised as a shampoo for passing hair follicle test. When this was give to the judge she just stated there was no such shampoo that works on that. Again I ask for this test my wife tried to get out of taking it. I had even given the courts a date where my wife had totalled a new car, broke her back,  caused serious head damage to my son 5 years earlier that I had told doctors to test her and my wife refused to give a sample but the doctors forced her too. She failed this test with xanax and marijuana. Judge refused to order those records . On my test it showed everything,  oxycodone I been blown off a tractor trailer a month before it was a prescription from a operation I had a year before . Vitamins cholesterol meds several things all prescribed to me .but 1400 ppg of methamphetamine . Again I ask for this test and I drive a cdl . Impossible! The guardian told me that the judge would put my son in foster care unless I let him stay with my inlaws until drug test was disproved. We determined in a week that vicks inhalers was where this came from a legal l methamphetamine but the could not prove either way witch it was because of the small amount. the drug lab told myself and GAL that they could not prove that  had used illegal drugs so I ask for my son back . I took urine,  blood and hair test likely 20 times and all were negative but the judge refused to give my son back. My son was at my sister inlaw house for over 80 days before they decided to involve dss and put my son in a group home. The judge had been told numerous times by the gal that the lab could not prove I had used illegal drugs but dss and this corrupt judge put my son in there to be gang beaten and I believe raped anyway. There is so much more if you read the transcripts that shows clearly the judge and dss giving my wife a pass on every charge including a surprise urine test that she failed 10000 ppg methamphetamine and by then a weight loss of 30 lbs at least. Dss and judge telling me it was policy to keep a child for 6 months after a failed test . Again they could not prove illegal drugs on me. Still holding my son at over 5 months that excuse about to run out and dss put a new charge on me for child endangerment for him being in the group home I'd spent 50  k trying to get him out of. Kidnapped by dss and this judge . This new charge was based on the same drug test that the 1400 ppg of legal methamphetamine was on again and the judge convicted me again and sentenced my son to another  six months away from me. The same judge the same dss prosecutors Dennis gmerick accused me of poisoning my wife was the only way she had drugs in her at 10000 ppg methamphetamine . 5 different lab techs told me it was impossible for my wife to not know she was high on that much in a urine test . Yet this sex discriminating child abusing judge and dss gave my son back to his mother with no charges in less than a month.  There is not a court out side this county that won't easily se a clear case of sex discrimination that has damaged a child for life myself for life and financial losses ill never recover from. And now my son hates his mother because he was gang beaten numerous times in helping hands and he heard his mother at a family meeting  say he could stay there until he changed his mind about her . with dss sandra jordan and ten other 5  couples than my son knew all his life offering to take him to their homes until it was settled to keep him safe. But dss let my wife decide to leave her only child there to be raped until the full year run out on the sentenced placed on me by judge gable. She belongs in prison for child abuse . Dennis gmerick certainly does. No  doubt they chose to destroy my child because of inlaw chris Johnson working for the county and dss prosecutor Amanda whittle I have witnes spent a hour during a sunday school class at first Baptist discussion how to help my wife win in court with the entire adult class. I will supena every person in that class if I proceed with a federal law suit. Do you believe all the adults at first Baptist will lie to keep Amanda whittle out of this?  I don't . I also don't want to ruin her career . I want Dennis gemerick charged and convicted of what he did to my son. Then ill belive I have saved the next little boy this corrupt cult decids to destroy.  Im not a unreasonable man. Ill be glad to talk about this . I love every child on this earth and I have slept 3 hours at one time since this happened over two years ago. I cannot believe that this kind of law breaking . Constitutional rights throw it out the window child destroyed damaged for life $300,000 gone my son and I virtually homeless compared to where we were can be ok with everyone in Aiken. My number is 803 439 3360. My wife made this happen to my child.she was willing to keep my child where he was being gang beaten daily for months. No I have no troubles understanding my son dont want to see his mother. Yet 7 different times in court and EVERYTIME the corrupt judge screamed at me and ask my why am I putting my son through this. Bullshit. The judge the attorneys the dss the guardian ad litem the therapist none of you worthless gutless representative of the court care one bit about the child you all care only about doing what all the corrupt system does . Help the female no matter how unfit in every way she is and extort from the man until he is homeless. I would have to be proven wrong to make me believe that any one of the family court legal system give a shit for the wellfare of a child..
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Ginger

June 18, 2014 at 5:12 pm

I completely agree with the "one size fits all" concept of being the real B.S.!! In the ten years I was with my husband, I raised my daughter, his two daughters and our two sons. He was in and out of jail, to the extent of several injunctions ; eventually a life time injunction. To keep it as short as possible, he finally wound up in prison (years after our final separation). After TEN years of not being in their lives, he was tired of going to court to get his license back for non payment of child support, therefore, he hired an attorney to "eliminate" the arrears and modify current support through a parenting plan granting him time sharing credits. I'm not going to dwell on the dysfunction going on in his new home, however, two years ago he threw our 16 year old son up against the truck and held him by the throat, then laughed at him while he cried..as my sons peers looked on. That child has not been back to his home since then, he has since emotionally damaged our youngest sons relationship with him (now 15), now this child will not go to his home. I was told by the judge tgat there was no "proof" of abuse because I did not call the police (although my son did not tell me until I finally questioned the new "stepmom" a month later. So I put them in counseling and requested a GAL and they BOTH agreed that the boys should not be forced to go over there. I left alot out, but the point is, not every case is a cookie cutter senerio....the jealous, vindictive ex with an ax to grind. My boys 15 & almost 18, have only known their father for three years and he has destroyed any relationship all on his own, don't be so quick to assume that NCP don't FORCE the kids to visit just to reduce their child support obligations!! I realize there is probably alot of good ones out there, but my experience has been that MOST are not!!! The kids should never be forced into a situation they don't want or shouldn't be in..furthermore, if a child "for no reason" chooses the beach over visiting a parent, peehaps that parent needs to evaluate the situation and become more of a parent that their child can't wait to see!!
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enforcement order? NOT

June 30, 2014 at 8:00 pm

My husband is going through the exact same thing...courts do not care at all about a mother denying court ordered visitation. We pay so much child support that it took 3 yrs of BEGGING the ex when he actually had a phone number for her, but to no avail....NOW, we finally caught a break and managed to take her back for enforcement but she couldn't be found for the "court date" notification(even though she finds that support check every week), so the judge just automatically rescheduled the hearing for a week later. She started calling the court house the day before the next hearing saying she just got a lawyer(we had filed and she had been served MONTHS earlier), and while the judge did not reschedule, he did allow her atty to have a call-in to tell the judge the lies she told him....my husband has now lost 2 days of work only to find the judge ignored the denied court ordered visitation and instead made it clear that he was blaming my husband(who was NOT given a chance to speak), blaming him for the 3 year laps??? She had a cop boyfriend in the small town she lives in harassing my husband, and even sitting in his patrol car watching the pick ups and drop offs....UNTIL we moved to another house on the other side of our town, she then decided he could see the kids as ordered but when she arrived for the drop off she demanded to know where "HER children" were going...my husband replied I will tell you where I live when you tell me where our children are living....she became enraged telling him he will never see the kids again and grabbed the youngest by the arm and tried to pull her out of the truck....I jumped out of the truck and told her calmly(so the kids couldn't hear), to let the baby go and walk away from my truck right now....and she hasn't allowed him to see them yet. He tries to call but she always says "they will have to call you back in 30 min"...when she calls back(we call her back) she will only let one kid speak and they are made very upset because she is whispering what she wants them to say...my husband tries to tell them they don't have to repeat what their mom is saying but that seems to upset them more. The kids are 10 and under for goodness sake....so for the emotional well being of the kids, my husband has tried to plead with the ex to let him see the kids, but still trying to save up for an attorney to "enforce" what was already court ordered!!! She walked out of that hearing with nothing more that "have the lawyers figure out a new arrangement".....she AS ALWAYS, is above the law in family court, while dads have NO rights...oh wait, she did tell him he has one right...she said the kids were given to her in the divorce, so now his(dad) only right to those kids is "the right to go to jail if [he] is ever late on that child support check"....so there you have it...she gets the majority of his money while he is then punished for not being able to raise the funds for a lawyer sooner.....She is supposed to let him see them tomorrow from 4pm to 7pm, but I already know she will not have the kids there, she will say they didn't want to go and the courts will NOT DO ANYTHING AS USUAL!! BTW...she moves the kids in with every boyfriend, and lives in a one bedroom home...even though she says she makes more money than my husband ???? Hmmmmm Best interest of the children MY FOOT, we bout a 4 bedroom home with MY selling everything I own in an effort to get some help from a judge...didn't work, the kids have never seen their rooms......
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Angela

July 14, 2014 at 11:38 am

I absolutely agree, my grandson hates going to his dads, he crys evertime and when he comes home he tells me he doesnt get to eat much cuz they have 4 other kids and dont have a lot of food, he gets sick everytime hes there. His dad and his girlfriend fight all the time so that upsets mygrandson he starts throwing up. Its so sad that my grandson gets sick everytime hes there. These so called courts dont make these decisions for the kids, they dont have the best interest for the children, and me being the grandma find it really hard to have to see him go overthere. half the time they have 4 children there and one teenager that is actually 12 or 13, and one ofthe children has down cyndrome I really dont see this being a safe home for any of the kids I think a child shouldn't be forced to go to a parents houze if they dont want to no matter the age.
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Angela

July 15, 2014 at 2:29 pm

I agree, mygrandsonhasto go intoahome where their are 4 other children, he absolutly hates going. His fathers girlfriend is the controlling one. The father is hardly there andthe courts say that is his right, I call bullshit on that, these courts are fucked up, the law cant understand why amother would love to take her child and leave the state. U want to protect your child and you are the one that gets persecuted.
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Angela

July 16, 2014 at 10:29 am

I agree, mygrandsonhasto go intoahome where their are 4 other children, he absolutly hates going. His fathers girlfriend is the controlling one. The father is hardly there andthe courts say that is his right, I call bullshit on that, these courts are fucked up, the law cant understand why amother would love to take her child and leave the state. U want to protect your child and you are the one that gets persecuted.
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Angela

July 16, 2014 at 10:37 am

Totally agree, the children shouldnt be forced to see the ncp, I think it makes for hard feelings when the kids grow up. A child should only go to the ncp if they want to without force
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Joan Bailey

July 17, 2014 at 6:16 am

You have no idea of the power of the manipulating parent. Unless you've walked in our shoes, don't offer simplistic and non-realistic advice.
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Joan Bailey

July 17, 2014 at 6:40 am

Excellent post - I couldn't agree more. My husband has been through the same thing -pays LOTS of child support and NEVER sees his girls. Youngest daughter (age 8 at the time) was telling people," I'm getting a new daddy. Mr. X is going to be my new daddy, " Before they separated. (Mom had affair with neighbor and family 'friend'). Certainly she didn't come up with that comment on her own, and now "mommy" got what she wanted. Counselors and the court have done nothing - mom lies and they believe her. The girls now HATE their father and will be impacted by this hate and anger the rest of their lives. Hate is the key, in my opinion. If the children use that word they have definitely been manipulated because it is not normal to hate a parent. Even the comments from former children who were forced to spend time with a (bad) parent don't use the word HATE.
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Joan Bailey

July 17, 2014 at 6:41 am

You couldn't be more wrong - this happens a lot!
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enforcement order? NOT

July 19, 2014 at 1:18 pm

WOW...SEE...YOU ARE further perpetuating the stereotype that fathers only want to see their kids in order to lower child support obligations...while I would love to point out that 75% of divorces are filed by women, or that MOST women deny court ordered visitation for the SOLE purpose of being entitled to MORE child support and tax free incomes like child tax credits(mom gets credit for dads financial support of the kids) .....I have to say to you, not ALL men are sorry, maybe you should be taking a good long look at yourself for choosing the man you're speaking of as the FATHER OF YOUR KIDS. Take responsibility for your HALF of all of this! DON'T hurt kids of GOOD men like my ex husband and my current husband by saying men ONLY WANT TO SEE THEIR KIDS for the lower child support obligation (which has never been lowered for to any father I know FYI....) You should NOT be destroying other kids and dads by your BIASED views of dads.......I am a woman and I am ASHAMED of women like you!! Do some fact based research...not woman's rights lies....father's have NO rights to their children once the wife decides to leave him!!!! Family courts are gender bias and NEVER enforce visitation, family court DOES NOT enforce the visitation orders and family court DOES NOT care about the "BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD".......If you chose such a BAD MAN to be the father of your kids maybe YOU should be the one paying for YOUR MISTAKES!! I know women like you....you are the CP who who uses parental alienation to make as much money as possible off of your kids! "stepmom", you better get used to it lady, she is married to the kids father then SHE IS THEIR STEPMOM, no need for your spiteful " marks " GOT IT? DON'T like it? Too bad, you should have NOT had kids with him OR you should have stayed married to him! I AM A STEPMOM AND I LOVE MY KIDS!!!! And it is clear that I care about them and their future while their "mom" only cares about the guilt she can pile on the kids for the sake of MORE MONEY!!!! ONE MORE VERY IMPORTANT THING....almost ALL issues with the child not wanting to see the noncustodial parent(NCP) is a SIMPLE MATTER of PARENTAL ALIENATION brainwashing the children against the NCP....that is why the CP will ignore the visitation ordered's giving HER the time to poison the children's memories and love of their fathers....I grew up in this poison and now I am being FORCED to watch my husbands children suffer the same abuse...and family courts make sure it stays this way!!!
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Larry the man

July 19, 2014 at 1:31 pm

As a parent of two step children and one biological child, I can relate to all the struggles of being in a blended family. Of course I would not change it for the world. Some of you mentioned parental alientaion for a variety of reasons. At the end of the day each of us has to decided how much contact the NCP will have with the kids. We live in California and the bio dad lives in Alabama. He pays no health care, dental care, education expenses, but only $500 a month in child support. The fucker is so lazy and biligerent about paying the $500 that we have to remind him on the 15th to pay it. He his responsible for paying for half the airline tickets to see the kids and finds a way to screw that up. So my wife and I layed down the law and made it clear that if he is behind in child support then he has no business buying airline tickets. The goal is not to keep the kids away from him, far from it. But to set the boundaries that no is obligated to foot the bill for others so one person can sit on thier ass while others work.
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bellasarah

July 27, 2014 at 8:39 pm

I am the custodial parent, and mother of 3 teens. I take issue with forcing visitation. When parents divorce, I believe that it is up to the one who leaves the family to prove themselves, and to bond with the kids in a way that the kids trust and want to be in their lives. This is not a gender issue, but it does seem to play out much more with the father either neglecting the parental relationship long before the divorce, while the mother tries to be mom and dad to the kids, and in doing so, becomes exhausted, and unable, or unwilling to keep trying to make the marriage work. After Dad leaves, the first thing on the agenda is to replace his sex-partner/housekeeper/babysitter, then start pushing for time with the kids once it is all convenient for him, all the while telling the new woman what a nasty bitch his ex-wife is, because his kids see Mom working her tail off even harder to provide for them and be a single parent, and really don't think so highly of Dad anymore, so they don't miss him. It must all be the ex wife turning them against him, right? So you then get the step mom on the bandwagon to say that she loves his kids so much, blah, blah.. Notice that for every 20 Step moms commenting on here there is one step dad. Why is that? It is not due to mothers being favored by the courts that they have custody. It is because they have the parental bond due to their involvement in their children's lives, even when they work full time outside the home during the marriage. This is not meant to diminish that there are good dads, but the vast majority of women do not run to someone else and expect the kids to just conform to a new family, or put so much energy into looking for a new sex partner, rather than nurturing their kids while they are hurting from the break up. Most women do not just make up a story to put the father in a negative light. If you have an affair and break up your family- OWN IT! Your kids have ears, eyes, and minds to think for themselves. That speaks volumes of your character. Affairs are not mistakes or accidents, but rather self serving acts of contempt toward your family and proof that your children do not come first. You don't get to have your cake and eat it, too. End your marriage first, then you are free to have a new relationship. But when you do, don't expect your kids to; a) love your new squeeze, or b) take a back seat to that person. If you do, then don't be surprised that they are pretty much not into you anymore.
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bellasarah

July 27, 2014 at 8:55 pm

Greg, your inability to differentiate between the level of discretion involving parental decisions in what children can and cannot decide for themselves indicates your own incompetence toward commenting on the matter. Anyone who generalizes such issues as though they are simply black and white, would not be someone I hope to have involved in a dispute in such a matter. Anytime there is such a refusal, there is reason to seriously consider the cause. Because children are involved, is even more reason to carefully examine the issue on an individual basis, rather than shoving them into a situation that traumatises them, whether there is or is not a true threat to their well-being. If they believe they are at risk, the correct approach by all adults is to be sensitive in our own approach, and appropriately handle the situation.
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lievana

July 27, 2014 at 11:43 pm

it saddens me you think like this i had joint custody though i was fighting for legal. My daughter kept comming from her fathers house with bruises but wouldnt tell me a thing so i would ask him and he'd tell me its because shes a kid she got them while playing. That was only for the first couple of times then she told me she didnt want to see him anymore she refused she cried she threw tantrums but i would still make her see him and eventually she grew to be bitter towards me she eventually told me that he would beat her and his new wife encouraged it. Sometimes kids do have a reason and it saddens me to see people being so blind too it.
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Gregory Forman

July 28, 2014 at 5:39 am

You are missing an important point: I write about "court ordered" visitation. My point is that custodial parents shouldn't allow the excuse of children's preference to disobey a court order. If the children dislike visitation that much I believe it is the custodial parent's obligation to get the order modified rather than simply disobey it.
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fedupparent

August 14, 2014 at 11:39 pm

I call bullsh!t on the whole legal system--from lawyers, to judges, to court orders--it's all worthless to uphold any law or protect anyone's rights, unless you have lots of money to pay to get orders enforced. Courts are so flooded with fkd up messes that were once marriage and family. Courts don't care about abusive ex-spouses who trample the other parent's rights, custody orders or child support schedules. And don't waste time expecting courts to do anything to stop the ex who always puts kids in the middle every chance they get. A financially poor mom can write a letter to the court and beg for orders to be respected. I learned firsthand, a court only enforces orders and rights of those who can pay, or can successfully maneuver through all the proper legal channels, alone. The court says until kids turn 18, they don't have the right to decide which parent to live with. But if an eloquent 15 or 16 year old gets audience with a judge and sways him/her, well then, in effect, the kid DOES get to make those decisions... and so often, they get their way. This is commonplace and parents can only accept it, or pay to fight for parental rights. Our legal system is smack-dab in the middle of the village that helps raise self-entitled, disrespecting kids that ignore authority of parents. In this manner, courts take away parental rights and give them to minors. The money-train that is the legal system is often a destructive system.
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MJ

August 17, 2014 at 3:26 pm

Sorry, but I call BS on a parent who doesn't put effort into a relationship with his child and blames it on the other parent. If a child refuses to such a level that a court order is issued against the CHILD to use 'any force necessary' (for you legal eagles that includes being handcuffed, transported by police car, pepper sprayed, or shot--some of which have been actually used against said CHILD) then that parent needs to take a long, hard look at himself and his behavior. I shouldn't have to ruin my relationship with my child to make the other parent look better in comparison. And if you insist on having your child handcuffed to 'enjoy visitation' with you then don't DARE come back to me ten years down the road and ask me why that child doesn't speak to you anymore.
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joseph

August 21, 2014 at 2:28 am

Ive been through a teeth pulling custody battle im a father who just wants both his daughters parents supportive in her life and ive faught hard to make sure im apart of it, hired a lawyer not to represent me but educate me and did everything hands on. Now thinking I need an attorney to perhaps just take over, thats a whole different story. I have recently been experiencing a beside myself heartbreaking experience. My 2 yr old daughter has gone from being overly excited and screaming DADA! Upon my arrival everytime, to where the last 3pick ups she has been kicking screaming and running from me. I am beside myself but I believe I know why, just dont know how to reverse it. Last visit before drop off she was bit by my bird, no big deal dad was there to save her and kiss the owie. However im not primary caregiver and was in the process of taking her home. Her mother excessively pointed out her owie and dramatized it. The very next pick up my daughter started this behavior. Ive had my daughter 1-8 consistently for over a year and she has always been fine around me I was about to start getting over nights but now I dont know if its best or how to resolve this behavior. After we leave moms 10 minutes later she is fine all smiles and DADA! do I just tough through it and force her to leave with me I dont want to traumatise her this is breaking my heart when the initial pick up and seperation is this difficult?
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Lucie

September 1, 2014 at 10:05 pm

You are 100% correct. The problem is with the corruption of our courts. The courts will help a lot of parents by recognizing that parental alienation is a serious issue. Children need both parents and both need to be respectful of each other and the children. We are dealing with a ex wife and mother who drunk much of the time, yet is a marriage and family therapist who knows all the tricks in the book. The kids feel bad for her and she manipulates them for sympathy and more money from us. Unbelievable, but we are just waiting till they are adults and taking every moment with them we can, but the secrets just keep piling up.
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cindi garcia

September 2, 2014 at 12:34 am

This post is the most fair and realistic post thus far. The kids first off lived with the two adults who were responsible for their life. Who first promised to love each other and then this child (ren). Obviously, they were selfish enough, for whatever reasons not to keep the first promise and now are turning the child's world upside down. It could simply be going to one or another parent's house is too damn stressful. Adults are not careful what they are saying around the children. The parent they are away from might be slandered by the parent and other adults. It makes the child feel disloyal. I know my grandchildren are in this position now. The non-custodial parent promised and was court ordered during the divorce proceedings with a restraining order to refrain from slandering the custodial parent in hearing range of the children. However, now that the divorce is final, the slander has begun. The non-custodial parent has said horrible things about the other parent and told the children not to tell. Of course, the youngest did. The middle one began to cry because they weren't suppose to tell and now they were going to get in trouble, the oldest one began to yell and confront the parent about what was told by the other parent. All on their 2nd day of school. The children are in excel classes. What is to be said when they began to fail? Why didn't they do their homework? The oldest missed school the next day because he never slept the night before. PEOPLE WAKE UP! The non-custodial grandmother is in the middle of it too, asking the children which grandmother do they love the most! Seriously? This speaks volumes of what our children are being left to deal with today. Screw your own lives up! JUMP OFF A BRIDGE! This is EMOTIONAL CHILD ABUSE. CUSTODIAL OR NON- Most often the marriage was over way before the divorce came and never should have happened at all.
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cindi garcia

September 2, 2014 at 12:36 am

Absolutely agree! Maybe watch a movie 3 times.
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cindi garcia

September 2, 2014 at 12:45 am

the non-custodial parents are just as capable of brainwashing too! a shitty parent is a shitty parent!
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cindi garcia

September 2, 2014 at 12:48 am

Make sure you get a modification that she is not a FREE babysitter!
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Michelle

September 17, 2014 at 10:17 am

Greg, I am sure as a lawyer that you have seen tons of cases where the custodial parent was being vindictive against the non custodial parent. I know that this happens and I am totally against it, however in my case the father of my oldest two children that my husband and I raise had not been in there lives except for when he deemed it necessary for him to see them. I've never (nor has my husband ever) denied him access or visitation time with our children. Over the years he has chosen to come and go as he pleases never remembering birthday's or even visiting them during the holidays. Last year he took me to court for custody citing that we never gave him any "parenting time" with the children, when our case was finally heard in court the judge ask him had he contacted the children? His answer was no, he did not want to cause trouble, no one ever said that he could not come and see them. The judge was not buying his excuse, so she asked if he had made any attempts to contact myself or my husband to see the children and again he said no, now we did try and contact him only to be berated with insults, and have curse words thrown at us so we ended the phone call and I immediately informed my lawyer of the incident. Needless to say he did not win the case we continue to raise our children and he did receive visitation to which we abide by our states normal visitation form. He however does not he comes when he wants and cuts out when he wants did not celebrate their birthdays but expects them to celebrate his step children's birthdays. I guess my reason for writing this is to let you know that there are still some good custodial parents out here we raise our children without the aid of the other party involved and we don't complain about it, never would and never will. I hope that something I have said here today will give good custodial parents strength that you're not alone in raising your children and just because the person that we may have chosen does not have the standards or morals that we try to instill in our children does not mean that we are not doing a good job. Blessings.
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rose

September 22, 2014 at 9:41 am

My situation is a little different my step daughter is regusing to go to her mothers house because her new step father is making her feel uncomfortable because of staring at her body while in bathing suit etc.... he has given her the creeps for a while as we expressed our concern to the mother she has dismissed it.... as of now the mother has not asked for daughter since in fear of loosing the roof over her head im assuming. We are at loss on what to do.... should we file for supervised visitation in fear that she will force daughter to come with her?
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belinda kachmann

September 22, 2014 at 11:45 am

I too have a similar issue going on, but instead of a step father, it is a girlfriend. It is difficult to make a judgment call on this, because you can be painted as a vindictive ex, and instead of protecting the child, the target is painted onto you and you could be the one who gets supervised visitation, or forced shared custody if these people are convincing enough with the court. I am all for having the child speak to the judge, as this helps take you out of the middle. But the judge can refuse to speak to the children as well, as I recently found out when my attorney requested it in my recent hearing for contempt filed against me when my kids refused to be around my husband's live in girlfriend. They are all teenagers, and she is a nut case who keeps everyone in turmoil. My husband refuses to keep her in check around the kids, and it all goes downhill fast... In fact, he will tell the kids it is their fault. It is truly crazy making for them and for me, when I get the blame for parental alienation. I am still awaiting the judge's decision. My attorney had the kid's therapist testify in the hearing that she recommends that he have the kids without the girlfriend present, and refrain from drinking when he has visitation. This only to find out that nothing stops him from doing either, as there is nothing in place to monitor the situation... OK, avoid court at all costs, but protect your daughter by putting her into therapy with a psychologist, (not a social worker), because they hold more sway with the court. Be clear on why you are having her in therapy, (I told our kids' psychologist they were having issues with the situation surrounding our divorce). I was acting as the buffer between the kids and their father until he filed the charges when I refused to settle on his terms. When a parent refuses to take actions to protect their children, instead of taking the side of the child, it is truly frightening, but all too common. These people place themselves above all others, and this is when they show their true colors. Be there for your daughter. Apparently, you are all she has to stand by her as a parent should.
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Erin

September 22, 2014 at 6:26 pm

Wow "Enforcement Order NOT" I do not agree that Fathers only want to see their children more to lower the child support.. Why? Because it is a blanket statement about a group of people that absolutely does not apply. There may be some of them.. I don't know any of them, but definitely not all or even most. But while you are so busy ripping the person that said it a new one, you go and throw out a blanket statement of your own regarding the CP! One that is equally as ridiculous. There certainly might be some cp that behave that way, it sure as heck is NOT most. So can we please just avoid the blanket accusations??? Especially after you read post after post of cases that the child doesn't wish to visit the ncp that actually have VALID reasons for their feeling this way. It is just as disrespectful. Thank you ONE MORE VERY IMPORTANT THING….almost ALL issues with the child not wanting to see the noncustodial parent(NCP) is a SIMPLE MATTER of PARENTAL ALIENATION brainwashing the children against the NCP"
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Erin

September 22, 2014 at 6:53 pm

Oh and I wanted to add that as the cp, I absolutely would never allow my child to not go to the ncp for their visit because they would rather go to the beach. Frankly I would find this to be completely disrespectful to their Father and would NEVER allow that. BUT when the reason they won't go is a valid one, then my first effort would be to get the child and ncp to talk it out. In my case the cp refused. I am not going to go into the whole thing again.. my post was back in 2010 and 2012 which explains it all. I am simply saying that if the ncp is not willing to try and fix the problem between them and the child, then what you do is go to court and req to modify the visitation to supervised till the child and ncp go to counselling and the 3rd party counselor concludes that the unsupervised visits should resume. Then if the child refused I would do everything in my power to make them go. But I certainly would NOT just dismiss their feeling out of hand until I had an objective party tell me it is safe to do so. In my own case the ncp filed contempt actions on me for not seeing his kids. Mind you, he never actually TRIED to see them in the 2.5 years except to call once 6 months after his last visit wanting to have our son come for Christmas and hang up on me when I told him our son refuses to see him again. I told him why. In short he demonstrated to our 9 year old the dance he would do at my funeral. Even worse because I have lupus and had been in and out of the hospital the whole year before. Actually in a coma for a week only a month before he did this. My son was seriously terrified of losing me and my ex was oblivious. The ncp response was that is was BS, our son was a child and had no rights. He was to go where he was told! He owed no explanations or apologies. Then we heard nothing from him for 2 more years till he filed for contempt on my part. The action filed simply stated he had visitation and had not seen them in 2 1/2 years. Well we went to court. I filed a motion to amend them to supervised till he went to counselling with him. The judge agreed and after hearing about all of it (and there was more that I never went into) she ordered him to go to counselling with him and supervised till the counselor said it was time to resume unsupervised. The contempt case he filed was dismissed by the other judge. He refused to go to the counselling. I actually took my son anyway because I felt it wasnt healthy for him to hate his father like he did. After about a year and a half he decided to TRY seeing him again. He went and they were all (ncp lives with his parents) much nicer to my son. For a while. Now the ncp is just as he was.. not interested in bothering and has not even called his son for a year including his birthday. So please don't paint all cp with the same brush and lump us in with cp that practice parental alienation. I
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Erin

September 22, 2014 at 7:12 pm

Joan.. While my own situation is absolutely NOT a case of me brainwashing my son to not want to see his father. That responsibility is completely on the NCP by his actions and treatment of our son. The fact is he was absent and when there abusive. BUT that being said in my brother's case where he had not seen his son it absolutely was a case of the cp brainwashing. We know this because he also adopted her son from a previous marriage, where come to find out she did the same thing with him. But he told my brother all the things she did.. and the one that always loses is the child in that situation. I have not laid eyes on my nephew for 10 years. He finally did come to visit after he was 19. But he was terrified of her finding out because she would disown him if she did. So he not only lost his father, but his grandmother and his entire family on his father's side.. It is a tragedy when the cp IMO takes her anger out on the child. Where I believe my brother went really wrong was he allowed her to win. Because the fact is when you only have one parent there to do the talking, then that is all you have to believe. I understand why he let her win.. but the one who lost was not just my brother losing his only son.. his only son lost having a father.
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Erin

September 22, 2014 at 8:53 pm

lol.. sorry Redbear762, You lost me when you chastized Stephanie for not reading the post "George" posted! The person that you are actually referring to is GREGORY FOREMAN..You either have boxing on your mind or you are really hungry for a burger made on a grill! I thought maybe at first it was just a typo but then you referred to him again as George.. lol Sorry but every once in a while a little humor is needed.
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Jonathan

September 22, 2014 at 10:17 pm

Ok enforcement order? NOT, I was with you through most of your statement. But you completely ruined your credibility with the last part. You talked about the negatives of stereotype and the need to do some "fact based research". Then you said, "almost ALL issues with the child not wanting to see the noncustodial parent(NCP) is a SIMPLE MATTER of PARENTAL ALIENATION brainwashing the children against the NCP". Where are your "facts" for this? Exactly how many of the millions of NCP's do you know? The truth is....BOTH parents play a role in getting married, having children and the divorce. If after the divorce, the kids are alienated from the NCP, then it probably is still BOTH parents. "Some" of the CP's poisons the mind of the kids against the NCP. "Some" NCP's don't work hard enough to keep their kids minds clean. Yes, it stinks that its going to be harder. But NCP's don't have the children as much, so they have to work harder. Simple math people. It is what it is. Then there is the issue of Child Support. Yes the CP's make out like bandits. Tax free income that the NCP has to pay the taxes on. I agree....IT SUCKS!!! But once again it is what it is. But now research what it costs to raise a child to adult and then compare it to what is paid by NCP's. Not even half. I'm a firm believer, that when kids get older, they figure it out. Their memories clear up. They learn about manipulation and dishonesty.... The truth comes clear. Yeah, as CP's and NCP's you lose their youth and the fun times of their growing up waiting for this time. But, never forget that...YOU,ME,US...THE PARENTS, because of your/our inability to stick to the vows we made as married couples or partners, our children were robbed of a childhood with two parents who love each other and provide a happy family unit. The kids will always be the biggest losers in this battle....the sad thing is....they don't even get to fight for what they want or need. Give them a voice. Good or Bad.
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Steven Hurt

January 30, 2015 at 2:53 pm

I am not so impressed with your approach. It's not exactly some earth-shattering new perspective. It is legal BS to attempt to get a win. In fact, the focus should not be the parents, but rather the children. Consider this; Some kids really DON’T want to go with the (non-custodial parent) and not because the custodial parent has alienated their affection, but because the non-custodial parent has done that all by themselves. There are good and bad parents, this is true, and allowing a child to dictate the household is one thing, but I think it’s irresponsible not to determine what the reasons are behind the child’s discontent. To immediately call” BS” may not be in the best interest of the child who is struggling and refusing to go to the non-custodial parent’s house and, in fact, it might be a dangerous and irresponsible stance to take. Every case is different but let’s not be blind. There are rotten parents who care nothing about the emotional or physical needs of their children. There are parents who are so narcissistic, that even a child can sense it! The “encouraging” custodial parent doesn’t have it easy either, often times turning into a liar to the child who is forced to visit, and into the adult who can’t protect them or be their voice-and it’s a horrible, horrible thing to witness, both for the child but also the parent who feels helpless to fix it. It is heart-wrenching to watch as a mother has to force her hysterical six-year old to go with their father. It shouldn’t be that way! Now, we all know it’s not illegal to be a narcissist, to be uncaring, or to be emotionally “vacant”. But it’s sad to think that when the children have made it home safely from the non-custodial parent, you sigh in relief. So when the court’s just default to what is most common, be sure that we have done due diligence for the CHILDREN. I agree that children should respect both parents and this should be encouraged. Have you ever watched while a child you love is forced into a situation that is causing horrible emotional and physical stress, watched while the custodial Mom lies to them just to calm them down while understanding that part of the problem is that they know she is lying just to get them to go, and they know she has no power over the situation. Then we have created a larger problem; who then CAN they feel safe with? Who IS actually there to protect them? And God forbid, you don’t want to hash out all the reasons in court in an attempt to solve the problem because you fear someone will call “BS” on you. Fathers, mothers, lawyers and judges need to find a way to always put the CHILDREN first. If a child is resisting it could be due to something as little as they want to spend time with friends during my school break in which case parents should be encouraged by the courts to be flexible. Kids were not built to be raised in two households. But also, I worry that more severe cases like abuse or other trauma will be overlooked with this so-called “defense.” Accusations of abuse or neglect are more often just being viewed by the courts as some tactic between disgruntled divorcees and not taken seriously at all. This type of “justice” is forcing the mother to choose the lesser of two very horrible evils. Where is the justice for the child in this instance? As far as the children who don’t want to visit or who refuse- put yourself in a kid’s shoes- they didn’t ask to be pulled from one parent to another; they didn’t ask to be forced to go spend every other weekend in a strange home without a bed. Although divorce has become a social “norm” and adults seem to move on from their ex rather quickly, children have a more difficult time of it and the adults need to be adults and help them transition by truly listening, not taking offense and doing what they can to soften the blow, even if that means eating a little crow sometimes. -excerpted from larger article.
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Patricia

March 9, 2015 at 12:29 pm

Greg, It's nice that you can make things sound so simple. My 15 year old son threatened to kill himself because of the treatment that he received at his father's home. Even though it was documented that his father had struck him hard enough in the head to cause visual disturbances and dizziness no charges were filed by DSS. It also doesn't matter that his father and step mother were consistantly demeaning him, calling him stupid, idiot, dumb... Even Mobile Crisis documented suicidal ideation. But still nothing was done. Now I face that wonderful contempt of court charge for not forcing a five foot nine inch male to go with to his father's. I have never stopped him from going, even with the many concerns. I have encouraged my son to see his father, spend time with his father to no avail. His father has used brut force on this young man his entire life. I don't talk about his father, I don't have to. This young man lived the abuse. So, no I do not allow disrespect, he doesn't run the roads, he does what he is told and will continue abide by the rules of a loving home. But since you seemingly know how to force a child, that has threatened suicide and has told multiple people that he will run away because of his father, to go back to his father's house, I look forward to your comments on how to do this with my son's safety in mind.
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Gregory Forman

March 9, 2015 at 1:41 pm

File an action to terminate the father's visitation.
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James

March 21, 2015 at 8:16 pm

Greg, So what I'm gathering from this post is there is no such thing as self help in the family court arena. If there is a visitation order, it must be followed to the letter. Thus, a modification must be sought or go to jail? My friend was approached last week by the non-custodial parent, berated, and slapped in the face through the window opening while she was sitting in her car. The child was in the back seat and witnessed the battery. Visitation weekend is coming next weekend, and the child (twelve years old) is petrified after seeing the violence against his mother. The mother filed charges, a warrant was issued for CDV, and the non-custodial parent will be prosecuted. But as a matter of recourse, he will likely bring a contempt action when the mother allows her son to opt not to visit. Meanwhile, an action to modify will take a year or more. What a choice for this mother to have to make. There should be an interim DSS administrative ruling until the modification can be heard. Is there anything like that in SC?
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Gregory Forman

March 21, 2015 at 8:22 pm

Any reason the mother couldn't file an action to terminate visitation and seek an ex-parte order or expedited hearing? The point of this blog was that the court, not the custodial parent, needs to determine whether to stop visitation.
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Laura Fenton

March 22, 2015 at 9:10 pm

My daughter just called me crying because my 9 year old granddaughter is hysterical about going to see her dad next weekend. She's coming up for a visit with me and he doesn't have visitation next weekend. Amanda just suggested since they'd be near her Dad's house maybe she'd like to see him for a few days. I don't agree that forcing a child to go against their will is not harmful to the child. She's already upset about having to spend the whole summer with him. We tell her the truth that Daddy can have Mommy arrested for disobeying a court order and that the judge decided she has to go. We tell her that when she's older the judge will care more about what she thinks and hopefully she can get the visitation time in the summer reduced to a length of time she will feel comfortable with. Unfortunately, her Dad and his Mom, says things to her like you don't love us, that's why you don't want to come, or you thing your too good for us, because your stepdad has more money. It's terrible to watch her get all worked up, she even has nightmares and tummy aches from the stress when it gets closer to going to see her father.
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Tressa

March 25, 2015 at 9:55 pm

what website?
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Tressa

March 25, 2015 at 10:07 pm

Thank you Steven Hurt, you just stated my case in a nutshell. I am fighting an awful custody battle. My son is going to be 16 this June and he cannot stand even the sound of his father's voice. The courts, and his father are trying to make me the parent who is doing the alienation. Even my own lawyer made light of our situation making statements to the effect that my son doesn't want to go over there because there are rules there. While I have not been the strongest of disciplinarians, what goes on there is far beyond strict rules and is clearly emotional and mental abuse. My son cannot sleep the night before any scheduled visits with his father. He literally lies awake until sunrise. His father tells him he is crazy, he needs help, and that his thinking is schizophrenic, because he cannot even begin to look at what his own behavior has done to his son emotionally. You described how I feel exactly, and how I have felt since my son was a baby and he would cling to my leg and beg not to go to daddy's. I felt helpless, I feel as if I am being condemned for my God given maternal instincts that tell me to support my son's feelings and protect him from the abuse. I am told by a faulty system, than by honoring my son's feelings and protecting him, I am somehow violating someone else's rights and I am facing legal consequences. Perhaps even putting my son at a greater danger of being placed in his father's custody entirely!
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belindakmn

March 26, 2015 at 8:44 am

Tressa, Have you or the court involved a therapist/guardian ad litem? I sensed what was coming, and knew that my children were going to need support and guidance due to the excessive emotional upheaval in the home due to a contentious relationship between my soon to be ex and me. I sought the services of reputable psychologists, one for my daughters and one for my son, (as I thought he would benefit from the guidance of a male therapist). After assessing the situation, BOTH gave their advice on how to deal with the narcissistic tendencies of my husband. My son's psychologist advised that I do not encourage a relationship between my son and his father, as the emotional distance that existed was a defense mechanism for my son, who saw his father clearly for the non-empathetic, disordered person he is. My daughters' therapist said that since my husband is so narcissistic, he basically "hands over" damaging evidence on a silver platter, as I had saved many of his text messages to me and our children that were pretty outrageous, and our children were well into their teens, I could basically drag it out beyond their eighteenth birthday, when they would legally be able to choose on their own. He filed a motion for contempt, saying I was denying him his parenting time, and alienating the children from him. What happened was after our daughters' therapist testified, the judge ruled that my husband could not have his live-in girlfriend around our children during his parenting time, so if she is going to be around, they don't have to go, and he cannot force them. She is as narcissistic as he is, and has a solid mental health "history" that we could bring up, if push came to shove. Isn't it sad that telling the truth is not always enough, and that judges will force children into these abusive circumstances in many cases? Keep up the good fight, and get support for your son by way of therapy, if you haven't done so already. Let him know you are there for him in every way you can be, and that this Hell will not always be his life, or yours. I am praying for you and your son.
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sybil

March 26, 2015 at 11:38 am

This guy is a moron! Forcing visits is not the same thing as making a kid eat veggies! I will never force my child into visits! If a kid doesnt want to be around a certain person there is a reason! Why would anyone emotionally traumatize their kid and claim its for the childs own good?! I mean a kid would technicaly be safer living in a bubble and shut off from the outside world but I won't force my kid into that either! This guy fucking pissed me off.
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Margie

March 26, 2015 at 1:00 pm

Dear Greg, My noeces Dad is an admitted pedophile. ... what I mean is my sister made a recording of him admitting he masterbates to photos of children in bathing suits & played it for the Judge. The Judge ordered an advocate for my niece (who kust waste $ & time). She spent weeks talking to a forensic psychological doctor & said the Dad would have to do a $20,000 psych evaluation. When they went to court the jidge handed her a list & said pick one of tjese doctors to do the evaluation. Joe (my nieces Dad) lied to either the judges in vourt or his psych dr. But it was never questioned ny the judge. He had supervised visits in the beginning, but now he gets her EVERY Saturday & EVERY Sunday for 3 hrs each day..... no one in the court system is protecting or trying to protect my niece. FUCK his parental tights, my nieces safty & rights SHOULD out rank him, but because of lawyers & judges like you they don't. She's forced to visit a pedophile until he assults her or another child...... I guess an admition on video & to a judge don't mean anything until its too late. So FUCK YOU, HIM & THE SO CALLED JUSTICE SYSTEM!
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Jen

April 10, 2015 at 9:51 am

TO all the mothers out there who have best intentions for your child: Try to listen. Many fathers have pissed off ex wives who, for very selfish reasons, make certain that their children fell weird about visiting their fathers. With enough time, and emotional backing from mom, this turns into children who don't "feel comfortable" with their fathers, or "can't be themselves" at dad's house. I was once a 15 year old girl who didn't feel especially comfortable at my dad's house. I had no relationship with my father for nearly 15 years because of the distance my mother allowed me to create. I wish BOTH of my parents had fought harder to keep a secure relationship with my dad. Please stop allowing your children to cop out of important relationships because "they don't wanna". Grow up and be the adult!
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Ashleigh

April 20, 2015 at 11:47 pm

Greg, I'm having the same problem with my 8 year old son. My son informed me a month ago that his father has been smoking pot around him, and heavily drinking around him. I've been informed that his father has even allowed him to drink. I've contacted Jobs and Family Services and they have investigated. Nothing has been done however, with the exception that they referred my ex husband to counseling. My son is scared to visit his father. He's afraid his father will hurt him or continue using drugs around him. According to you I should make my son go with his father?!? How can I willing send my son to a place where his safety is at stake? I know you say it's easy to just file a motion to terminate visitation, but how is one supposed to do that if they are low income and cannot afford a lawyer? From Ohio.
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Dave

April 21, 2015 at 7:34 pm

your examples of how a custodial parent would not allow a child to drink alcohol or do their chores is ridiculous and gives no credence to the children having an issue with the non-custodial parent. guess what kids don't want to go to the dr, but understand getting sick or having cavities and therefore go to a dentist. here is the analogy for all those that may not understand this situation. recently my daughter's college room mate got hit bar a car running across the street during a college day drink. I am sure her parents told her plenty of times as did her friends not to run across a street without looking. guess what, a kid won't even see the consequence until it happens or they have kids and worry about their kids. ugggh. the complete generalization people make about what they would do.
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sybil

April 21, 2015 at 8:15 pm

Comparing a visitation with going to the doctor is absurd. Kids are afraid of the doctor bc they associate doctors with pain. Obviously if the child is behaving the same way when it comes to visiting a parent they associate that parent with some kind of pain. A good parent wouldn't emotionally, physically or mentally abuse their child. And forcing a visit is emotional abuse. Why would you teach your child that it is OK for an adult to force them into doing something they didn't want to do. That's why kids don't tell in abusive situations.
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Patty

April 29, 2015 at 2:41 pm

Sir, I read your article with interest. My husband and I have encountered a situation with my 15-year old stepdaughter. My stepdaughter splits her time 50/50 between her mother and father; every other week. They have been divorced 10 years. My step daughter is a great kid. Compliant, funny, respectful and creative. She began telling us she was not happy about two years ago. She felt her mother pressured her to perform in a way that she could not live up to and when she fell short she would get sent messages that she was a failure. She also began telling us that her mother was not present for her. We assumed these were the griping of a young adolescent. We offered an ear and redirected her back to her mother all the while encouraging her to be respectful and honest. The kid was increasingly unhappy and began to express wanting to be with her father more than her mother. Well, we again just listened and offered support and redirection. Once in a while she would ask to extend her time with us due to a family outing etc. This was not a problem with the mother usually. Let me say that My husband and his ex do not get a long at all. It is not openly hostile rather she refuses to have any contact at all even when he wants to discuss behaviors, grades, medical…you name it. About six months ago the kid became very distress and began revealing things that were concerning. She is not being beaten, starved or denied resources . She is emotionally being neglected and we believe abused. I began talking to her about therapy and this is when I found out her mother had told her if she went to therapy and told her that if she disclosed certain things she would be taken away. I spent a long while working on that belief until she agreed to see a therapist. Then the kiddo decided she wanted to go to the high school in our district. We live in a small town but Mom or step dad would have to drive her in the morning every other week and pick her up at our house when they got off of work. We were supportive of this choice and met with mom to discuss this. It is about 7 miles one way. All heck broke loose. Mom was very angry and became hostile. The kiddo came over and was in tears saying ‘I can’t take it anymore” and reported she spent three hours being raged and told she should have never spoken to her Dad etc. Dad called to see if he could determine what the issue was but mom swore at him and hung up on him. We didn’t know what to do other than support her. She then told us that she wanted to live with Dad full time and have visits with her mom. We could hear her but thought this may pass. We helped her settle down and helped her with skills to use with Mom such as active listening. She went home and called us the following Tuesday. We took her to dinner and she sat and just cried. She told us that her mother and step father had spent days either browbeating her or emotionally shunning her about her school choice. We asked her if she could make it to Friday and she assured us she could. She came back that Friday and slept for 18 hours straight. IN the meantime we have consulted an attorney and made the decision to ask for an amended parenting plan. My husband called mom and asked her if she would agree to this over the summer. She was very hostile, swore at him and refused to speak to him about it. We then made the decision without her agreement. Then two weeks ago the Kiddo refused to go home to her mother. We told her that she must but she then said she would not get into the car with Mom. Mom was angry but what were we supposed to do, pick her up and force her into the car. Now, what is remarkable about this is how compliant this kid normally is. This is very out of character for her so we got her an emergency session with her counselor. I believe she is to young to make the decision to terminate a parental relationship but she may need more distance. Any thoughts would be helpful because we really do want to support the kiddo but we also think her relationship with her mom is important.
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Bombom

May 8, 2015 at 9:28 pm

My case is a little different. I disagree a little with you Greg. I know some parents alienate their kids against their father and use the excuse of not wanting to see their dad. In my case. ..i flee from home bc of DV when my kids were 14,12 and 11 . I lived a whole year with them in a safe house. When i get the chance to placed an injunction infront of a judge I felt sorry for that man so i didnt proceed. I'll pay for that mistake my whole life. Anyway..to make the story short. I always called their dad every other weekend so my kids gets to see their dad. I always brought them over my kids grandparents as a middle ground. My now 20 year old stopped wanting to see his dad when he was 16. I always placed his shoes and clothes at the front door and told him i was going to wait for him in the car as i got ready to drop off my other younger kids. I repeated doing that for a year but continue to encourage him to see his dad even now he is 20. I took him to counceling and his counselor told me to leave him alone. He will do it when he is ready. So i butt out. My daughter who is now 16 stopped see her dad when she was 13-14... I did the same thing with her but i was a bit more firmed with her nc of her age until she dropped them bomb that she didnt like the way he looks at her (as a woman) so I butt out and waited for him to call me to reinforced his visitation rights. He never called. And my now 18 year old stopped see him when he was 16...his father failed 3 times to take him to the hospital when he got sick at his place with bronchitis, pneumonia and a third degree burned. Because of those bronchial infections he developed POTS syndrome. He is now disabled. And my daughter has been recently find disabled thru a disability hearing due to seizures, migraines, PTSD, and GAD I was trying to change the parenting plan but i was always struggling to pay a lawyer. Legal aid was out of the question bc im one of those cases that they cant help bc the case is in another county from where i live. After almost 5 years i finally hired an attorney and she is helping me to have complete custody over my kid. (16) My 2 youngest are still in counceling and myself. I want the best for them...i never have refused their father to see them and i dont think i ever will. If he ever calls ill make sure my kids know but after all we been thru its going to be up to them to see their father. I butted out.
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step parent

May 11, 2015 at 10:51 am

How about a non custodial parent who just was awarded visitation and on the very first weekend instead of staying home with the 14 year old goes to a bar with her boyfriend?
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MO Dad

May 11, 2015 at 4:36 pm

Greg, I bet you thought a simple word of advice would be nice to post... In many ways I agree that a child should not have the right to CHOOSE to visit the non custodial parent. However, I believe a refusal is clearly a consideration. I have been divorced from the children's mother for nearly 4 years. There has been nearly 4 years worth of eminent court hearings, with only going to court twice. There are 2 children (11 yo girl and 14 yo boy). Mom's visits are every other weekend. Mom has been verbally abusive and neglectful. Even recently leaving the 11 yo alone overnights while working. Previous children's division investigations have been horrible (ineffective). The kids both confirmed that she screams at them, threatens to call the police if they don't clean their room (yeah they share one room while at her house). Has been blatantly more aggressive toward the 14 yo even hitting him in the head (ruled unsubstantiated by children's division even though he had a huge knot on the side of his head) but similar to the 11 yo as she gets older. She records them all the time, threatens to take them to juvenile if they argue at all (mostly the 14 yo) and a plethora of other examples. At any rate, the 14 yo has refused to visit for about 6 weeks. He stated he can't handle it anymore. He was getting horrible stomach aches before visits, and I found out that he was routinely being left as the overnight babysitter while mom works. (Note: mom is an overnight private contractor (caregiver) which can make her own schedule). 14 yo said, that he will not go again. I told him that he had to and that if he doesn't he may be required to live there by the court until he is 17 or 18. He said he would just run away then too. I always have both children at the exchange location and tell both kids to go with their mother. Last exchange, she had a video recorder and refused to talk to 14 yo when he went up to her car. Then she drove past my car and pointed the camera at my wife and I. 11 yo always goes and is more of a buddy with mom as she allows her to wear tons of make-up and any type of clothing she wants. Although her moods are up and down with her mother. She has had outbursts and says she wants to live with mom because she doesn't like the rules. But when at mom's says the same to her about staying with me. 14 yo is well adjusted, does well in school and otherwise has a great relationship with everyone. I have encouraged mom to go on afternoon outings or have shorter visits to help rebuild their relationship, but she blames me for his refusal or says that I am denying her the visit. Mom says its ok for 14 yo to not visit, but then sends me messages saying that I am refusing to let 14 yo go. Then she threatens taking me to court. I already spent tens of thousands of dollars and the kids are with me 90% of the time, but there is constantly a problem from the mom. The last modification took almost 2 years and wasn't even close to a court date. So, I gave in and we made an agreement that was approved by the judge. At this point, I feel it's the best I can get for the kids, but there is a constant threat out there. She even calls the police to have "well" checks done on them a couple times per month, stating she hasn't heard from her kids (I show the cops the phone records that they have recently spoken, they look around and obviously see a normal well kept home as well as very safe kids and they leave). How can a kid have any friends when the neighbors see a cop car in front of the house twice per month. It is destroying any normalcy for the kids. I am out of money to keep an attorney while providing for the kids (note: she pays no support as it was part of the agreement). Most people on these simply say, "take the other person back to court." I don't know about anyone else, but there has to be help out there for all of us that are doing the right thing for our kids. I don't think a court is going to completely allow a kid to no see their parent unless it is physically abusive or they are doing drugs or whatever. So, now I guess I just wait to be taken to court. Yeah, I know it is discombobulated mess of a message, but I needed to let someone know.
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step parent

May 12, 2015 at 11:24 am

We feel your pain. We is a custodial father and a step mother. My step son lived with us for 14 months and his mother would only pick him up around the holidays and did not enforce her visitation until she had to pay child support and then all of the sudden the father is denying visitation. After 14 months the well adjusted teenage boy now 14, making great grades, mannerly, good friends, ect. was told by a judge he had to visit with his mother. May I say, white trash now. The very first weekend with him she leaves him at home with his 19 year old drug selling brother and heads to the local bar with her biker boyfriend. Who wins here? NO ONE! The white trash mother gets her overnight credits to avoid child support, but the teenage boy is very depressed. The judge told her to work on her relationship with her child two weeks right before that. There is no way in heck that this step mother who was mom for 14 months will let this teenage boy miss a step in anything..........I got his back and he will have happiness.
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really

May 13, 2015 at 6:37 pm

Really? You must be a jealous step parent since that's all you have to say. There 2 sides to a story buddy/ma'am
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Aimee Martin

May 14, 2015 at 1:36 pm

Definitely not. No jealously what so ever. Non custodial parent does not care about her children only cares about self and money. Very obvious. Get a name really and a life.
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Mary

May 15, 2015 at 6:39 am

I agree with you on every level Greg. My story is different from most.....I was with my ex husband for 20 years in my opinion he was verbally/mentally abusive but in his mind he was not. So difference of opinion there.....I decided to leave him in February of 2014 at the time my children were 13 and 15. They begged me to let them live with their father because they didn't want to leave their friends or school. They have been in the same school since kindergarten and now are presently a junior and a freshman. I didn't see the harm in this considering we have both always wanted what was best for the kids. Shortly after leaving I met a wonderful man we Baca me good friends it lead to more and I am currently engaged to him!! Prior to living with my current fiancé I had my kids every other weekend like clockwork and we agreed on holidays. Once I moved in with my current fiancé my ex husband decided to let the kids pick and choose when they wanted to visit. He decides which holidays I get (last year I missed fourth of july, labor day, Christmas eve, Christmas day, new years eve, and new years day). He will follow the rules when they are in his favor. Recently my son got a job and a girlfriend. Now he is refusing to visit because of his social life. His father let's him make whatever plans he wants and tells him he doesn't have to visit if he don't want to. It isn't an issue of him not liking my fiancé because he calls him dad every once in a while and goes to him for advice. Whenever I try to get my ex husband to see that he is violating my rights he tells me take me to court we will see who comes out on top. I'm at my wits end I can't take it anymore is t g ere anything I can do??
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Reneé Ruhl

May 18, 2015 at 6:32 pm

This is my exact experience. Thank you SO much for taking the time to consider the larger picture. It is a very lonely place to feel like you have no allies in the other parent or the court when you are only, truly, trying to give your child the best unbringing possible.
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CAL

June 7, 2015 at 7:20 pm

Greg- Excellent article. I would like to work with you on matters of PA. I am an alienated father who has been kept from my 4 children starting almost 6 years ago taking my kids 1200 miles away and shopping 4 different judges in 2 different states to find someone to revoke all of my parental rights. Let me know if I could be of assistance. CAL
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CAL

June 7, 2015 at 7:26 pm

Sybil, let me ask you (seeing you have never experienced having your kids taken away from you), do you understand the concept of Parental Alienation or is it that you have alienated another parent from their kids? Just a little confused by your banter. And his description is not very far off base. You are right it is not the same as making a child eat their vegetables.....IT IS WORSE!
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CAL

June 7, 2015 at 7:43 pm

Margie, was your ex convicted of sexual misconduct or as a pedophile? Unless he was there is no need to make such an accusation. If he was convicted I understand why you are venting and have every right to do so. Now with what Greg was stating most women are not in that case and are disgruntled jealous selfish women out either for themselves or out to destroy the lives of their former husband. When I asked my ex-wife (seeing that I have been looking for visitation to be enforced and she refused looking for a judge to give her what she wanted) what she was wanting she told me that her goal was to destroy me. She has said that more than 3 separate times and has trashed my name in so many venues. Upon asking a few simple questions of my kids (before all communication has been cut off) as well as doing a little digging I found my ex aligned herself with a homeless shelter in order to get them to build her a new home. If they want to be suckers on that that is their issue but what bothers me is the caviot they gave her to get the home and the scare tactic she used with the children only to find out that the last judge and GAL are connected with this said organization and paid for her legal defense. She was told that they wanted her to claim domestic violence and be their spokesperson to raise money in lieu of getting a brand new home. What she told my kids was unless you accuse your dad of abusing you we will loose this home and live on the street and it will be all your fault. Do you want to be homeless? She used this as the excuse to refuse ordered visitation then manipulated the judge to revoke my visitation under the pretense of defamation and character assignation. This is what Greg was talking about. I feel that no parent should have their parental rights revoked. There are some who should have restricted visitation, especially because of sexual of physical abuse, but the courts need to have a plan to restore the relationship and if that parent doesn't comply then they cannot increase time with their child. As for your situation I am sorry you went through this.
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sybil

June 7, 2015 at 10:15 pm

My child's father is A PEDOPHILE! HE CONFESSED IN OPEN COURT! The judge gave him unsupervised visits anyway (clearly she has no kids and daddy issues) Yes I teach my child to fear and watch out for him as any Good parent would. I feel sorry for your kids if you agree he has a right to molest my daughter.
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sybil

June 7, 2015 at 10:20 pm

I am margies sister. My daughter is her niece and I have the bastard on video admitting what he is. I caught him in the act of masturbating to photos of children and the legal system failed my daughter bc the picture were of partially clothed children not technically child porn so he was not arrested. The law is not black and white and bc of these father's rights advocates the law is working against some children. Not all people deserve to be parents.
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CAL

June 7, 2015 at 10:55 pm

It is very disturbing that judges work in a reckless and self serving way. I have seen this time and again that judges play the political game for their own reputation rather than the best interest of a child. This would be a red flag that a judge should jump at. The problem, which I am sure the reason he did nothing, was simply because there was no criminal investigation done. If there was a criminal conviction he would have, at best, gotten supervised visitation. Did you take this info to the state's attorney to investigate? It would not be a bad idea to do and let them see if they have enough evidence to prosecute then go back for a modification.
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April Conant

June 10, 2015 at 12:55 am

My situation goes back along way. the man who has custody of my son told the courts he was the father when he is in fact no blood at all i was there but under such heavy medication at the time i do not remember anything he took advantage of my situation knowing i could no care for him at the time but i do have visitation and he moved as soon as the order come down i did not see my son for two years he was told i had died. Now he is 12 coming up in 7 days and so called father doesn't even let him speak to me it shouldnt be my sons decision as it always has been. what can i do i live off of ssi i can not afford a lawyer but can not afford to lose my son for good again. Please helpme
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April Conant

June 10, 2015 at 1:05 am

I only want my visitation his father hates me and in turn if my son shows any affection he gets yelled at so is forced to agree he stole my son when he was 18 mths old i did not see him til he was 4 and half then i married his father to be around so i could raise my son and couldn't take the verbal abuse any more i had to leave my son behind he hates me or does he i will never know unless i get help
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Patrick Reddy

June 12, 2015 at 6:21 pm

Hi Greg, I am a father who just won custody of my 13 year old son. Mom has never refused me of seeing my son, but as my son has gotten older, he started having problems with her boyfriend. To make a long story short, the problems escalated to the point where my son has had to call the police on his mom (several times) and have started showing disrespect towards her and her boyfriend. His mom lashes out at me and would threaten to drop him off at my house to live. So as time went on I decided to take her to court to gain custody of my son. My problem is that, since I have gained custody, she has not tried to contact our son not once and it has been a month now. My son finally called her and he asked when she planned to get him and she told him within two weeks from that day. Well she didn't show up. My question: Is there anything that can be done to make this woman be a responsible mother to her son? The judge required her to pay child support and she was granted shared parenting as long as she moved to the vicinity of where we live. She has yet to do that as well. What can be done when she neglects to exercise her visitation that has been pointed out in our divorce decree?
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Alvaro

June 12, 2015 at 10:00 pm

Greg, Just received a notice from a lawyer's office representing the mother or my kids for which she has primary custodial privileges. For the last (10 years) I've had the standard visitation rights one week Thursday to Friday, following week Thursday to Sunday. The kids are 13/17 years of age and with plans here and there, so we have been flexible to allow them to stay for the most part with the mother due to sports and now one acquiring a job. We did have a discussion for which one of the children requested consistency to stay primary with the mother. No abuse issue what so ever, nothing denied at all, I have been an active father and provider, and I do not want to change the visitation arrangement because it will affect me and my family in more ways than one. I love my children, and I feel their being influenced by the mothers partner. What can you recommend and do I stand a chance to keep things as is. Thank you in advance for your time.
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step parent

June 25, 2015 at 1:17 pm

Let's talk about consistency: Non custodial mother who boo hooed about her visitation in court proved herself again to only be interesed in money. Already changing or declining weekly visit to be with boyfriend. The soon to be teenagers are not stupid. Their mother chooses boyfriend over them.
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Melissa Craddock

July 14, 2015 at 12:00 am

I couldn't agree with you more!! The courts claim they want what's in the child's best interest. Yet, I have been on that end. I've forced my kids to go when they didn't want to. Its the worst feeling in the world. I think the parenting plans and courts need to add additional provisions. If the child is truly upset they should NOT be forced to comply. In my opinion, that itself is a form of emotional abuse. The recent judge that threw 3 kids in juvenile detention BC of failure of visitation with the father is ludicrous! Some parents dont deserve the visitation if the child is constantly being dumped off on a neighbor while supposed to be visiting. My ex recently was going to allow my daughter to have a sleepover with the neighbors 13 yr old boy!! God works mysteriously, I ran into my child that night at the theater, the mother came and introduced herself, my child actually text from boys phone at 12 a.m., I immediately text father and demanded he go get her. Its inappropriate, and I'm not willing to take that risk.
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stepmom

July 30, 2015 at 1:44 am

So here's my question. My husband has full custody of my step daughter. She is 12. Last summer her mother tackled her to take away her phone while she was drunk. A week later her mother was charged with domestic violence for repeatedly hitting her boyfriend while she was drunk. My step daughter recently went to her mothers house for a week. We recieved a call from the police in the middle of the night because my step daughter was so afraid of her mother that she ran to the neighbors house while her mother was drunk. The next day her mother took her to the carnival where she drank an entire bottle of straight vodka before putting her in the car and driving her 30 minutes back to grandma's house. She is scared and has begged us not to make her go back. What are our options? What are we to do if we force her to go back and something worse happens? My husband is working on filing a motion but there's no way he will get a court date before her mother's next weekend visit.
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Victor

August 27, 2015 at 1:26 pm

I requested a custody evaluation and my ex was found to have engaged in alienation and interference with my visitation. I was falsely accused of all sorts of things, all ultimately found to be utter bunk. My son refuses to speak to me, and probably never will. My daughter and I enjoy our time, but my now ex still subtly engages in what I deem to be alienating behavior. I really have no recourse ... apparently the court thinks my kids being raised by someone less mature than they are is fine. And she can cancel my dinners and phone calls for whatever reason - they forgot, they were shopping, out to eat, etc. and no one cares. But I darn well better have the check in on time. In the end, that is all the "system" REALLY cares about IMO - the money.
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CAL

August 27, 2015 at 1:55 pm

You are 100% correct Victor. Visitation means nothing and when you push to withdraw support until visitation is honored the courts say child support has nothing to do with visitation yet if you go for a modification of child support, in many states, the child support is based off the amount of time you have or don't have with the child. You can't have it both ways. In the end matters with the child have far more to do with the money and less to do with a child's well being. What state are you in? 12 states to date have Parental Interference laws yet the punishment varies from state to state and trying to get a judge to comply is equal to becoming a millionaire by digging for gold.
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Marina

September 2, 2015 at 5:13 am

Hi dear people, people suffering as I am. I am struggling with a 14 years old daughter refusing to see her father. Main reason - he is not flexible with her when she wants a change in days or just needs a rest of moving between houses, constantly arguing with her or in two words she doesn't feel good when he forces her to go due to a court order. last weekend she ran away and came back to me 3 times and every time I brought her back. Still I was held in contempt of court and tomorrow is the hearing. I am very shocked by two facts: First - the inability of parents especially non-custodial to understand that relationships are not build through court orders but through love, compassion and empathy. I cant even imagine to be in situation to have to tell my kid to be with m because it is court ordered. I would never want my child's life to be managed by orders. The biggest weapon of a parent to win the kids heart is their love and understanding. The issue is that the non-custodial parent should be looking for a way to the kids heart and this way is never through forcing but rather through understanding. What if you force a child and one day when it turns 18 never wants to be with you and holds only negative memories. Second- the current practices have nothing to do with the best interest of the child. The best interest of the child is to feel good, to be understood and not to have to be forced all the time. The best interest is for kids to focus on school and forming their friendship. The parent should find a spot in the kids heart. And parents should give the kids the freedom and understanding that no matter if we like the other parent the kids are part of both of us and hostile comments should never be made against the other parent. In Europe - the custody disputes are solved quickly. The court looks who is the main caregiver and this is it. If both parents were equally involved there will be 50/50% division, if not the parent who was mainly involved. The short procedure prevents parents to reach such a stage of conflict as we do here because of the lengthy battles in court. If two parents don't cooperate how would the child feel and by cooperation I mean be friendly with each other, consult with each other. I don't know what else to say but there is something very wrong but to all of you non-custodial or custodial parents I have to say - Think of your children. Give them the freedom to chose and show some sort of respect to the other parent. make children be with you because they want it not because they are forced to. Think about the memories you are creating for them. And they will come back to you. 2 hours of quality time with your kid is much more than a long weekend where the kid hates you and hates to be with you.
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Machell gould

September 5, 2015 at 9:16 pm

I have the same situation. I have begged him to be involved and help. He only chooses to for a short while when he has a new girlfriend but it never lasts. He won't stick to a visitation schedule or keep his word about anything he tells them he will do. He doesn't pay child support either so if my kids say no they don't want to talk to him or see him I give them that option cuz he has the dn option to do that to them mr thinks he knows it all lawyer
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Lynn

September 12, 2015 at 1:02 am

To Jen. My husband is currently going through everything you said with his almost 15 year old and crazy ex. He want's nothing more than to have a relationship with his daughter but his ex has been driving her away from him for years. It is so frustrating! He doesn't think she is ever coming back or will ever come back around. Sad. I wish I knew what to do or say for him.
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Christy

September 18, 2015 at 11:12 pm

In my case, when it is my turn to visit my children who are 10 and 11, their Dad packs their schedules full with super fun things with their friends from school or neighbors. Of course the kids don't want to miss out on these fun things. I live 2 hours away. Then I am made to be the bad guy because they have to miss these fun things. However, it is all a situation created by the father. He creates the turmoil intentionally. It all seems narcissitic to be for him to behave this way and his behavior is never ending. Thank you for writing the blog. I believe I am your intended audience.
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John L.

September 19, 2015 at 9:07 pm

More terrible advice from a bad lawyer, as well as probably a less than desirable parent. The formula is pretty simple- spend quality time, care and respect to your child and they will Want to spend time with you. Hopefully your license gets revoked before you damage more lives.
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Joe

October 7, 2015 at 11:22 am

Wow - I could have not said it better myself.
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MK

October 8, 2015 at 2:56 am

I have read these comments and they are all insane. The lawyer is completely correct. It doesnt matter that the child doesnt want to go and unless there is physical danger or harmful danger they need to be as equally with both parents as possible. The court even requires children to visit jailed felons for the child own good because they are the parent. You all need to read and understand the damage caused by not spending lots of quality time with both parents. For example a daughter not seeing a father destroys her self esteem and self worth at an alarmingly haigh rate. I hear alienation in most messages on this board. I beleve as they now do in Brazil that it should be considerd a crimal offense. It is clearly child abuse without any doubt.
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JM

October 11, 2015 at 3:23 pm

Wow, some of the posters on his site seem quite enraged for one reason or another. I'm currently going through this with my ex and my 13 yo daughter. I have to say I agree with the lawyer. My ex has riddiculed me, broken my nose, and left me literally on the side of the road all in front of my daughter. Just recently I was served with a restraining order, all because my ex can't seem to stay in one place for more than a few months. I brought up to her that maybe my daughter should come stay with me until she can get in a stable household. This sperned resentment and a good cussing. A few days after that I was served with papers stating I beat my daughter while screming her mothers a whore, and other quite ridiculous accusations. So I got a pretty good lawyer and tomorrow we go before a judge. My daughter is supposedly scared to come over, and my ex wants me to just disappear and forget about my baby. That's not going to happen. Her mother is more interested in being the cool friend mom and not the moral guide she should be. Mr. Forman is right, maybe not about every case because they all differ in some way or another, but in my instance he's spot on. A few months back my daughter was sick complaining of a sore throat. I contacted m ex and she demanded she be the one to take her to the doctor. I figured ok doesn't matter as long as she gets seen by a doctor. I met my ex infront of the doctors office to drop my daughter off, asking her to let me know what the doctor says. While i was pulling out i got no more than a 1/4 mile away when I see her vehicle leaving the doctor. I call her no response so I message her asking what's going on. I was informed that my daughter said her throat wasn't sore anymore and she didn't want to see the doctor. So I asked what no better safe than sorry measure, when I recieved a cussing stating she knew better and if she actually gets sick she would worry about it then. Three days later my daughter was in the doctor for strep throat and I was informed she needed her vacinations and thats why she went. I informed my ex that next time it's better to play it safe because they wouldn't be called children if they could make choices of such for themselves they'd be called adults.
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Brenda

October 26, 2015 at 4:39 pm

My husband is dealing with the same thing. His ex has a pattern of alienating herself from those who piss her off. Her mother, her father, her brother (whos dying of cancer!) and this is what she has taught her son to be acceptable. He lives within walking distance of us. The kid has got a job now, so he can buy his own games and system- all of a sudden dad aint so important. Neither she nor his son will respond to texts, calls, or messages sent through the xbox. This has happened before. Lasted 2 months. The 16 year old came back as soon as his dad offered to take him to a Sox game. Really?? And to keep the peace, my husband spoke to him about empathy, and the importance of keeping communication open. Fast forward 8 months, the kid and his mom are at it again. If my husband visits.the house it will get ugly. She blames the kud. The kid blames her. Its so twisted! And he mentioned to his dad a couple of years ago about him wanting to remain the only child. We dont have kids yet. So, darling, let me get this straight, you want him to be your dad and your dad alone? Then you strip him of all the joys being a father can bring? Pff! I can understand if the father was abusive, but he is not. I am respectful toward his son, and even play board games as a family. She claims the kid doesnt want to go. Ok. I believe it, but who's the adult? Who's calling the shots? The court visitations mean nothing, but I guarantee that if ONE check would be missing for child support THAT'S when the court intervene.
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Dale

November 9, 2015 at 2:31 pm

I think there are no reasons whatsoever besides abuse where one parent should decide whether or not another parent can see their children. In many cases the women are lying, not all cases but many more than you could believe. My son was accused of being abusive to his kids and hasn't seen them in 2 years. This all began when he got a new girlfriends, after the divorce. The legal system automatically believed her and my son had to go through abuse counseling, child raising counseling, supervised visitation, and over a year in court. He never got the visitation because by then my ex had the kids convinced my son was evil. He did everything the court has asked while his ex was using drugs, making money (big money) from being a paid sex escort, and who knows what else. Today my son won his court case. But because my ex got the children to hate their father, my wife and me, she is in a dilemma and has to convince the children to see their father starting in 12 days or she is in contempt of court. The judge told her, "you created the mess so fix it" If the children do not see their father he get full custody and the mother gets supervised visitation. I give it a month and the children will be with their father. Btw, children do not run their lives the parents do. Any parent who uses the excuse the kids do not what to see their parent are not good parents and let their kids run them. My ex honestly believe she is in the right so I have a difficult time believing any parent who makes excuses to not let their kids see the other parent. It is not up to the parent to force their relationship with the other parent on the children. Yes, even if the other parent was a deadbeat parent. Also, ANY parent that talks bad of their ex in front of the kids is a terrible parent.
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Mary Lea Home

November 9, 2015 at 10:53 pm

Part of the problem with co-parenting is that the plans that lawyers draw up for shared custody are grey lines. They do not state in specifics what each parent gets or needs to do. Judges also share in this. They know that when two parents are not in agreement on parenting and they know that one of the parents is going to be causing problems for the other parent by not following parent plan...yet when presented to judge parent has violated the plan..nothing happens to the parent...other than a violation fee and told to comply. This continues over and over again as the parent who violates the plan continues to not pay child support, child sport fees, uniforms, school tuition etc. This is not a parent with their childs best interest at heart. But our STUPID LAWS allow this. When are our State Officials, Judges, and Lawyers going to wake up and do the right thing for the children. Forget the Parents...Do the right thing for the children.
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Peter M.

November 13, 2015 at 4:13 pm

Sorry, but I have to call "BS" on a lot of the comments here. You think the children's behavior described occurs in a vacuum? Did anyone posting a comment stop and think about their own behavior, and how it might affect their children? Were you never children yourselves, and did you never manipulate your own parents? Short of actual abuse, or some other criminal behavior, the non-custodial parent's right to see their children as ordered is the same as the custodial parent. We do not let 9-year old, 12-year old or 15-year old children run our businesses, governments or militaries, so why do we let them run our households? By that I mean, we tell them what to do around the house, we have rules and we enforce discipline when they cross the line. Court orders do not usually give decision-making rights to children; they are minors administered by the adults mentioned in the orders. So why the comments apparently elevating children's rights to that of the adults? The State authorized the courts to settle these kind of disputes, and their wisdom is reflected in the binding orders meant to be a compromise between what each parent demands. In every other way adults follow those rules and others, but when it comes to a crying 10-year old, whatever they want suddenly trumps adult obligations and responsibilities. What the heck do tell them when they refuse to do the dishes or go to bed on a school night? Gregory Forman is correct. Do not enable the child, and by extension the parent, by acquiescing to their doorway tantrums. You are doing yourself, your ex and the child a disservice. Parents are not authorized to overrule the court's orders for any reason. IF there is really a problem of abuse, then there are remedies for that; USE THEM. Doctors, psychologists, police, CPS and the courts have a purpose. And if there is no abuse, family counseling and therapy can help understand why the child is acting up. Maybe it IS all in their head. My ex, the custodial parent of our 12-year old daughter, has leveraged the onset of puberty to completely alienate me. But if you listen to her, it's "all my fault." I'm asked by counselors if I can change things or adjust my behavior...sure, a little. But I've been doing that for 11 years now; I can't appease them anymore. I can't be a parent if I'm not free to act like a parent. When does the focus shift back to where the problems really are, in my ex's household? Why can't she be forced to make changes that could actually help me have a relationship with our daughter? Maybe she needs to do more than "make her available" and "not interfere." I've watched her coax carefully coached words out of our daughter in counseling. I've caught her in lies. She's made decisions for my time with consulting me. I've listened to her impugn my credibility and watched her exceed the orders with impunity, yet I'm the "bad" guy who should just "give my daughter some space." And if I talk to a lawyer about all this, they usually say, "well, she's making her available and besides, the judge will see that your daughter is almost 13. The judge won't find your ex in contempt because you can't control a teenager." Then they ask me for thousands of dollars to proceed anyway. Because of my ex, I've lost control of my daughter. I can't tip-toe around eggshells when she's with me just so I don't upset her and she yells "I'm not staying with you!" The inmate is running the asylum. I can't give up on her either because then my ex will be free to alienate me to irrelevancy. I'm only useful as a source of child support and visitation when it suits her; I'm a token parent, deemed unworthy of respect by both my ex and our daughter. I may have been a lousy husband but I'm NOT a bad dad. What to do, what to do?
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Heather

November 19, 2015 at 4:56 pm

Mr. Forman, I just wanted to see if my Daughters Bio dad had any real rights. He after not seeing or calling for four years wants to file for joint custody, only because my husband wanted to adopt my Daughter. We were NEVER married and he's never been apart of our lives in 12 years. does not pay child support as he has been directed by the court. He asked me for $15,000 to save his farm and then and only then would he sign papers to give up his rights. Asked the very next day if I wanted to pay him and when I said no he, said fine that he would be talking to a attorney for custody for the summers. Can he do that? My Daughter has been in competitive gymnastics for several years now and I have NEVER asked anything from him. Summer is when she goes to gymnastic camp and this year has been chosen to be a speaker in DC. She does not want to see him nor does she know him to stay any length of time alone with him. I don't even know him and have not had any contact with any of his family in 12 years. Should I be concerned?
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Lynn

November 19, 2015 at 5:38 pm

Hi Dale. Mind if I ask what state you are in? My husband is going thru a similar situation and us getting hosed by the Guardian. Complete crap. Congrats to your son!
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Aaron

November 25, 2015 at 10:41 am

Peter M., it's taken quite a few trips to court for me to realize that the non-custodial parent doesn't have any right to see his kid. The courts are tasked with looking out for the child's right to access both parents and right to financial support. That's all. You might want to ask yourself if what you're doing is looking out for your daughter's rights or if it's all just to get back at your ex. Quite frankly, if in my daughter's case it was all about me, I'd have to take a pass on all the stuff my ex has put me through.
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Ss

November 25, 2015 at 2:23 pm

I would be concerned. He does have rights if he didn't sign them away. He can go to court and they may start visitations off slowly for them to get to know one another. If you want him to stay out of the picture since it seems he is all about money and not really wanting a relationship, stay low and don't seek adoption. Sounds like that got the bio father thinking.
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Mike

November 26, 2015 at 11:30 am

I have a full hearing in a couple of months ... and my ex didn't even show up for the last hearing. Well, at least I got Christmas! My daughter and I have been going to the same restaurant for months every dinner night we have together. The staff knows us and remembers us. There is NO WAY the ex didn't get wind of this ... and low and behold her and my son whom she has alienated me from elect to go to dinner at the same restaurant a couple weeks ago. She texts me during dinner and asks if we can do the exchange there instead of back at the police station (that I mandated in the temp order.) I refuse ... the dinner was ruined, and my 8 year old saw them there and was very uneasy - expecting some issue. She didn't know I knew and the poor little girl just sat silent and uneasy until they left. The ex even let my now alienated son parade past us to take the long way to the restroom. She did this on purpose to ruin my dinner - and she sped away from the police station after dropping my daughter off to ensure she got there first. She's a horrible person and pulls crap like this to disrupt and frustrate my visitation often.
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SM

November 27, 2015 at 7:46 am

I honestly hope you're still reading these comments, since your original post is a few years old. I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on you and the court system. I am SICK of the courts deciding that blood=best. Did you grow up in a split home? I highly doubt it. My mother faithfully had me visit my father until high school, when I said I absolutely would no longer go. My father was not physically abusive, but the damage from his emotional abuse still lingers and I am in my 30s. I won't get into the details, because I really want to write about my step-son and his situation. My husband is the custodial parent and there is no visitation order. In fact, our custody order states that we determine visitation as we deem necessary/safe. You see, my step-son's mother is a lifetime criminal, drug addict who hasn't held a job for more than 2 months in the last decade, nor has she had a stable home and all the men she's been with after my husband have beat her (we have photos). She was shocked when we took her to court for full custody. Only once has she attempted to take us back to court, but she dropped it because she was going back to jail before the hearing took place. She went as far as to request a guardian ad litem and then call CPS on us stating that our house was full of feces and that the child was unclean and sick from hygiene issues. I obtained a copy of the CPS report after the visits as the worker wrote that she believed it was a malicious reporting and we wanted to have the proof should we ever need to go back to court again. My step-son did want to visit her in his younger years, but she has taken him on such a roller coaster ride, I think he's finally sick of it. Today is his 14th birthday, and yesterday he said he did not want to see her. We have no obligation by order to let her see him, so, until he wants to see her (we only give him the choice when it's safe), he won't. She has a hearing for her 3rd felony next week, and she has already told him that she'll probably be going back to jail for a year or more. Oh, I'll also say that she has another child that she still has custody of (different father who does not care), that child is 3 and has already been molested by the birth mother's husband (yes, he is now convicted, this is not bullshit). This poor 3 year old has already lived in 10 different places (including hotels), witnessed her mother being beaten, been molested and probably more in her short life. How much shit do children have to go through because of their birth parents before they deserve a chance at a good life? We would love nothing more than to have the birth mother's rights removed for my step-son, but basically, in our state, the birth parent has to nearly kill a child before they'll take their rights away. So, we're just counting down the years until he's an adult and hoping for a long sentence for her. Birth does not equal best, I hope the courts will stop thinking that way. To say that continued contact with a birth parent is always in the best interest of a child is utter BULLSHIT.
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Gregory Forman

November 27, 2015 at 11:41 am

I do still read these comments and your comment inspired two blogs: It’s called vigilantism and Remedying the visitation of an emotionally abusive parent. I am very sorry to read about your problematic relationship with your father. I think you misread this blog as I never wrote that, "continued contact with a birth parent is always in the best interest of a child." I do not believe this to be the case. However, while it is likely that you accurately report an emotionally abusive relationship with your father, my experience–and the experience of others–is that you may have been the victim of a mother who alienated you from your father. When custodial parents resort to unilateral withholding of visitation it is hard to determine why the child is alienated from the non-custodial parent. However, from the perspective of the child in these situations, it is the non-custodial parent who is the problem. Either way you clearly suffered from abuse as a child and I hope you find healing.
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SM

November 27, 2015 at 7:17 pm

Just to clarify, I wasn't really quoting you in regards to the birth parent being the best interest of the child, but stating an opinion based on my experiences. And no, my mother did not alienate me. She never said a bad thing about my father, and in fact, still encourages me to reach out to him in the hopes that it would give me closure. She did not stop visitation until I chose to stop in high school. He also did not attempt to have me visit after I stopped going. I did reunite with him for a short time in my college years, only to learn that he was exactly the same person I perceived him to be as a child. I'll read your other blogs, thanks for the response.
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Brian

November 29, 2015 at 4:16 pm

COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS and DEFINITELY not in the best interest of the child. For ONE parent to "dictate" even through ALLOWING a child to "determine" whether or not they "want" to go to see another parent is COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE. Children typically dont know what they want from minute to minute let alone with regard to visitation. Everyone has different parenting styles and many parents "allow" children to do whatever they want and approach parenting from an "Im your buddy" vantage point. Other parents are stricter. Of course they are going to want to hang out with their buddy than a parent who is REALLY WILLING TO PARENT. If there is abuse CERTAINLY children shouldnt be allowed to spend time with a parent who is abusive but FAR TOO MANY PARENTS are manipulating their children through alienation tactics to NOT CALL BS on a parent who is allowing a child to dictate their visitation.
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Peter M.

November 30, 2015 at 1:00 pm

Aaron, I appreciate your comment but disagree with at least part of it. Your realization is no doubt a result of the family law and courts in your state. I live in Texas, and my orders state that I "have the right to possession of the child as follows." Call it splitting hairs, but that is different than your statement of "the child's right to access both parents." Maybe your comment reflects the reality on the ground as opposed to the wishful thinking of lawmakers. Other remedies notwithstanding, my understanding of my orders means that I can go to court to enforce my right to see my child when the other parent does not make it happen. The cops called to mediate my recent attempts to begin possession have said as much; they do not believe my ex's statements of "making the child available" and "I told the child she is required to go" go far enough to avoid contempt of court. My ex is clearly relying on her attorney's advice, so the reality may be that the judges in our court consider those statements dutiful enough. Still, my daughter refuses to go with me. It appears that only an enforcement will settle the issue. My ex would love to turn my enforcement action into a cause to effectively emancipate our nearly 13-year old daughter, at least from me. Through insidious manipulation she has essentially transferred her obligation to provide me with visitation to our daughter, who will likely have a guardian ad liteum attorney asking the court whether an unwilling child should be made to go. My ex has transformed our nearly 13-year old daughter from a child who should obey a parent into a quasi-adult who believes that she can do whatever she wants. Nowhere in our decree or orders does it state that our daughter has the right to make such decisions, but through my ex's enablement she believes she has standing to challenge my authority (i.e., my rights) over her. This is why I said in my comment that the inmate is running the asylum; I've effectively lost control of my daughter. You may read that as me trying to be dominating and overbearing, yet think of it this way: in a non-divorced household this would never be allowed. Sure, in dysfunctional marriages the child may be biased toward one or the other parent, but that does not constitute a grant of standing to challenge being with the other parent while in the same house. Parents scheming to do this must divorce and then alienate the child to create this perceived but artificial "right." I want to spend time with my daughter, yes. I want her to spend time with me, too. I think it is very much in her interest to spend time away from her mom, but she can't see it because she's been alienated against me. She has been made to forget all the opportunities for a different experience while with me. I don't see spending time with me as getting back at my ex but my ex apparently perceives this as a threat to her self-delusion of being the only "true" parent. My ex has never considered me an equal so depriving me of visitation, one way or another, rationalizes the corruption of the relationship, and resulting alienation, between our daughter and me. So yes, in a way it IS all about "me" because right now I need to re-establish the natural balance in our Joint Managing Conservatorship. Everybody knows divorced kids do better with two well-behaved, involved parents. Right now, my daughter is being skewed away from my beneficial influence by a co-dependent mother deluded by her own sense of superiority and infallibility. It's my duty as my daughter's father and dad to do what I can to shield and inoculate her from her mother's toxic influence. And if you think I'm being paranoid, let me tell you how it will turn out if I DON'T remain involved: our daughter will eventually turn on her mother and hate her as well, to the point of wanting to live far away. How do I know this? Because I've known my ex's family for 30 years and she is a clone of HER mother. My mistake is not seeing it 13 years ago.
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Teresa

December 1, 2015 at 10:13 pm

The system is grossly flawed - my x got default custody of my teen daughter he hasn't seen in years & the new judge won't view her councilors notes on abuse so I went go jail for contmempt when I have never done anything wrong but try to serve a status quo to protect my baby. She is 15 and I can't see her AT ALL because that's what he put in the order he served my po box knowing we were in Cali with my cousin. God SAVE me.
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Peter M.

December 2, 2015 at 11:32 am

Steven, I have to disagree with you. The sense of entitlement, i.e., rights, you apparently wish grant children of divorced parents is not normally available in a non-divorced household. I can be a parent and partner in a poor-performing, but functional marriage and household. I can be emotionally detached and a lousy dad and yet be married to a good mother, but that does not grant the child the right to say, "I'm not spending any time with daddy!" The child cannot be given the option to "opt-out" of a relationship with one or both parents, absent any bonafide abuse or other justifiable circumstance. Although not exactly the same kind of decision, you wouldn't allow them to decide whether they should do their homework, chores or go to bed at an appropriate time on a school night? You have rules for a reason, right? Children can be listened to but must obey in the end. Today's kids are probably much more expressive in their desires than previous generations. They probably have more channels to be heard, too. The court should consider their testimony, or expert analysis about the child, as a supplement to adult testimony and evidence. It should NOT, however, allow them at any immature age, to dictate the rules of visitation. Without just cause, this inappropriately empowers children to dictate their relationships and future when they are not mature enough to consider the ramifications of their decisions. In my decree and subsequent orders, there is a statement to the effect that, in the absence of mutual agreement of the parents, the rules apply. A child's whim, or constant refusal, should not be the cause to make a modification. Both parents should seek to understand what is causing the problem before jumping to conclusions and allowing a unilateral by-pass of the orders. YOU are the PARENT of a CHILD. A teenager may not be a "child" but is still considered an un-emancipated minor who is otherwise not allowed to make life-changing decisions. A mother telling a dad that their 13-year old daughter doesn't want to go on visitation, for any reason short of abuse, over his objections, demonstrates a lack of respect to the child of the dad and the system. It empowers the child to inappropriately think of themselves as quasi-adults who hold veto over their own parents. I have always been involved in my 12-year old daughter's life. It's only because her mother and I couldn't get along that I was put in the situation where by default, I can spend only about 1/3 of the year with my child. Looking back, I can see subtle distancing in our relationship, no doubt manipulated so by a co-dependent mother who had twice the time to influence our child to the point we are at today. A year after the onset of puberty she now violently refuses to go with me, shocking me and the police called to intervene. I can only shake my head in disbelief and wonder what, What, WHAT did I do to deserve this? I told her I loved her every day. I hugged and tucked her in at night, usually at her request, until she turned 12. We played games and went places together. I made her her favorite foods, listened to music we liked, and talked to her about life. And then? She tells me to FO. Of course I am not perfect, I do yell, but I rarely laid a hand on her. (I was spanked a dozen times for every time I did the same to her; I knew from the onset of being a dad that I wouldn't repeat that kind of parenting.) I live only a dozen miles from her mother, and have been married to my current wife for over 10 years. We are not so far away that she cannot contact or spend time with her friends, as long as we are informed. Her mother signs her up for activities on our time but we usually acquiesce in order to support our daughter's interests. That said, I reserve the right to say no to something wants to do, or not do, because I am her father, her dad and her parent, and sometimes I have to say "No." Is my saying "no," and all the irrational, nonsensical, trivial, and unjustified statements, demands, accusations and allegations cause enough to evict me from her life? It's sad to say, but it must be that her mother, using the standard time granted to her in Texas, has been able to gradually alienate our daughter against me. Right now, I don't know when I will see her again, because apparently I can't force the issue short of a contempt action, which is something that doesn't phase her in the least, and it doesn't address the underlying programming done by her mother. But to solve that problem, I will have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to try and convince a judge that her mother is the problem, should be held accountable for what she has done, temporarily removed from visitation and possession, and the child put into serious treatment to de-program her. Because I know, deep down inside, is the child I helped raise, who I know still loves me, but just can't see or feel it anymore when her mom's around.
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Peter M.

December 2, 2015 at 11:35 am

"If the child is truly upset they should NOT be forced to comply. In my opinion, that itself is a form of emotional abuse." Sorry Melissa, but I have to call BS on the first part of your comment.
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Peter M.

December 2, 2015 at 11:44 am

John, sometimes you can do all that and it won't be enough to counteract the slow-drip poison of a co-dependent mother who gradually alienates your child against you. Clearly, you have NO experience in this situation. Mr. Forman's observations are far more accurate than anything in your comment.
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Mj

December 5, 2015 at 12:06 am

18 months ago my son went to his dad's for the weekend. Ten minutes before it was time to pick him up. His dad called and said "he won't be coming home. He doesn't want to live with you, he has major issues and problems with you, but I can't tell you what these are as I told him I wouldn't, you need to speak to him" my son was barely 11 yrs old. I called my son. He wouldn't tell me of any issues or problems. All he would say when I asked why he wasn't coming home was "because. I just wanna stay here for awhile" up until then he was with his dad 6 out of every 14 days for 7 years! No court orders. Just an agreement between us. Bad mistake there. My ex changed his schools so that I couldn't go pick my child up from school, wouldn't tell me what these issues were. Nothing. I went to court and sought a recovery order and interim orders. In the first court date my ex stood up and accused me of child abuse! I have never once laid a hand in my child ever!! In fact the reason I left him is because he was physically abusive and an alcoholic. He accused me of being a drug addict, alcoholic, abusive, always yelling at my child. None of which was true. After 6 months of court we finally agreed in mediation that my son will visit me every 2nd weekend from Thursday afternoon til Monday morning, one Wednesday night a month and half the holidays. My ex and I also had to see a court ordered therapist. Everything was fine in the next 12 months. No issues. His father and I spoke regarding his xmas presents so we don't double up, schooling etc. he even reported to the therapist 9 weeks ago everything is fine. I saw my son on Monday night for my bday as per orders, dropped him at exchange place at 9pm on 30/11/15. Two days later my ex sends me a msg saying "he doesn't want to see you. He won't be coming this weekend, he has major issues with you that you need to talk to him about" and yet again will not say anything else besides "he will not be seeing you and I don't care if I'm not following orders it's in his best interests. I know my rights and he knows his rights. The orders do not mean you see him it's only if he wants to" he refused to turn up for the next exchange. Sent me a text saying he would not be there. I spoke to my son and asked what the issues are. His reply is "I just wanna stay here for awhile" with no other reasons. He was not sent to school on the days o would usually pick him up he was kept home with his dad. I spoke to my son again and he said to me "well once I'm 13 I can live wherever I want and that's only a few months away so yeh" the last time we went to court he said "mum hit me when I was a baby but I don't remember it but dad told me about it " and things like that. His dad is filling his head with stories like this and no one at the courts cared. I will now not be seeing my son until at least February next year as courts are closing for the xmas break. I am worried as I am a good parent. I work. I pay my child support. I attend everything my son does. I have never said anything bad about his father in his presence. But his father will now have another few months to turn my son against me. What do I do???
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Laurie

December 5, 2015 at 8:56 pm

Dear Greg, My grandsons bio father never had anything to do with him for the first 10 years of his life. Including not paying any support. Last yr he took my daughter to court to get court ordered visitation because he had a new girlfriend and she found out he had 3 sons, but was only an active father to 2. My daughter has a fiance and little girl with him and for the past 7 years he has been the only father that my grandson has known. The courts granted his bio father the routine visitations even though he didn't even know my grandson and increased his child support due to arrearage. The bio father was not given permission to attempt to change his religious preference which is Christian, father is Mormon. My grandson enjoyed getting to know his older half brother but his father would constantly threaten him about church, punish him when he did nothing wrong and allow his younger half brother to damage his belongings and even made him give his only xmas gift from his bio father back and it was given to his younger half brother. The visitations stopped when he broke up with his gf, they only lasted 3 months after he got visition. She told us about the treatment at his father's house which she didn't agree with . My grandson can't stand his father and never wants to go back. Last month after no contact for 5 months he texted my daughter and told her that he tried to have a relationship with his son, but essentially tried to blame her for his irresponsibility and poor parenting and stated that since my grandson and he don't get along and he does not want to be in his life that she should not force him to pay child support so he wants her to voluntarily tell the courts to relieve him of the responsibility. My daughter told him she would only sign off on child support if he would modify the visitation to none since he hasn't seen or talked to my grandson in almost 6 mo. I'm not sure if the judges will allow her to do this but she in no way has she ever alienated his bio father and at first tried to help him relate to his Son but he just doesn't care and never did. On his last visit he even told my grandson that he knows he is a lousy father and has his phone alarm set to remind him to call and ignores it rather than calling him. He refuses to pay support at this time and is pressuring her to sign off on it. My daughter's fiance even wants to adopt him but I fear the judges will take action against her for trying to take away his rights even though he doesn't want them now. The "Best Interest of the child" needs to be looked at more thoroughly when allowing deadbeats access to these kids because my grandson was doing well before his bio father decided on a crash course of his own alienation. My grandson constantly worries about his bio father now and begs us to do something about it.
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Laurie

December 6, 2015 at 3:58 am

Greg, My husband had 4 son's with his ex and the courts gave him custody of the oldest 2 and she got custody of the youngest. We got married 6 mo after they divorced and they moved in with me and my 3 kids. His ex has been a hoarder for 30 years and since the divorce she moved into a smaller home and started her hoarding again. The boys would tell us that after visiting with us thier mother gives them the third degree, and constantly question them about what happens at our home and tells them that thier father doesn't give a crap about them or he wouldn't have left. She has called CPS on us multiple times with false allegations of abuse, molestation etc...all lies and found to be unsubstantiated. The older boys were 15 & 17 when we got them and due to thier mothers hoarding issues and "OCD claims", refusing to clean the house, wash thier clothing or let them use the washer, and complaints of physical, mental and emotional abuse from her while thier father was at work absolutely refused to have anything to do with her. They are now 28 and 30 and still refuse to have anything to do with her and do not let her near thier children. The younger boys are now 17 and 19 and we have been back and forth to court since they were 4 and 6. The 19 year old finally got away from her and moved across the country, the 17 year old is disabled and she now recieves his disability checks so she doesn't want him to go anywhere. The home she has was recently sold and she has no where to go. She calls us constantly demanding that we should give her money to help even though my husband still pays her 753.00 a month for support and we supply his clothing. We just won a judgement in Sept ending her Alimoney of 11 years. We have spent thousands on Atty fees fighting to prove that she was neglecting the boys and the most the courts have ever done was give us temporary guardianship until she had pathways in her home so the kids wouldnt burn inside if the house caught fire. The 17 year old sleeps in her bed because his was used as a litter box for cats. The home looks exactly like the municipal dump. Toilet doesn't work, shower is broken, electricity in the kitchen doesn't work. The kid doesn't even know what normal is because he was born and raised in the filth. I just wanted to let other families know what we have gone through for the past 12 years. The courts don't really care what the custodial parent or non-custodial parent does to these kids. They only care that both parents see the kids not whether the parents are actually capable of being decent parents, but when the kids become teenagers and start displaying behavior issues because of one they blame the other. We got the boys counseling, spent a fortune in court and went into debt for nothing. No matter how many CPS substantiated cases of abuse, neglect and physical harm we had against her the judge still gave them back to her. The best outcome that we have had in court was getting supervised visits with her during the year it took her clear pathways so she could get them back and not having to pay her atty fees during the last 4 years. We teach the boys that it's important who you have sex with because you never know what kind of crazy ex you might wind up sharing your child with.
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Peter M.

December 7, 2015 at 2:27 pm

Mj, that sounds a lot like what I'm going through now. (See my comments and replies.) You could try an enforcement action to compel visitation, but you need money to hire a lawyer and even if you win that probably won't change your son's mind. Even if you're in the right, the cops won't force the child into your car, and you shouldn't try that either (if your son is as strong as my daughter, you can't do it without really hurting them, which is a CPS case and restraining order just waiting to happen). You can hope that after several contempt rulings the judge will throw your ex in jail, but even that may not get the kid in the car. Kids can be awfully stubborn, and if you can't get them to come with you, you can't get them to a therapist for treatment. I don't know what to do, either. I don't want to spend thousand and and thousands of dollars on seemingly endless legal battles. I wish I had more encouraging words for you.
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Jennifer Talbot

December 11, 2015 at 8:06 am

My ex was awarded temporary custody pending mediation to establish custody over two years ago and was recently awarded a garnishment of my wages for child support of which no hearing was ever served upon me. I have a lawyer who is attempting to get this thrown out, but in the mean time I have lost my home and my job due to the financial trauma, and I still do not get to see my 3 teenage daughters all due to the systematic brainwashing by my ex which caused them to sign elections and a bogus therapist who agreed that the children should not be forced to see me because I would make them feel "uncomfortable" for showing favoritism towards my ex and his family. My current attorney agrees with you about making them see me, although my first attorney was no help in this matter and went along with everything the opposing counsel tried to do initially. My question would be in reguards to the amount of time that has passed in the interim. We were to continue counseling which neither party did, I have been making a sorry attempt at moving on with my life and realize I have been having a nervous breakdown this entire time, but regardless of the 15 years which I raised them on my own, my lawyer thinks these two years without contact doesn't bode well for my chances of getting the right to visitation instated. And what about the total distruction of my life which this flight of fancy on my children's part has caused. This all has seemed so far from justice it is sickening.
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Amy

December 11, 2015 at 5:24 pm

I think you're absolutely on point. Sadly, my husband hasn't seen his children for four years. As a revenge tactic, the custodial parent filed a restraining order stating that he is abusive and that they did not want contact (they were 12, 13, 15, 17 at the time). After two,10 minute hearings, The Magistrate vacated the RO, but ruled they didn't have to have contact if they didn't want to and she further ruled he could not contact them. My husband was and is a tremendously supportive Dad and a steadfast provider. Since my husband was not allowed to initiate contact, he didn't. The kids now believe that he abandoned him. Terribly sad stuff. We remain an actively blended family with mine and ours. My children, my husband and I have a very positive relationship with my ex-husband and his wife and my kids are proof that recognizing two parents and encouraging healthy relationships makes for well adjusted human beings. I have always thought my children would be mentally healthier if I encouraged rather than discouraged a relationship with him. Of course, while we don't always agree in approach, he is a good and loving father and man and I am mature enough to recognize that as an equal parent, he also has a right to make decisions for our children.
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Cathy

December 15, 2015 at 2:01 am

I have been searching through for some kind of answer and I am instead coming up completely short. Everything I read encourages me to "force" my children to uphold their court-ordered visitation with their father. Just to offer a little insight, all three of my children (9-year-old boy and two girls ages 11 and 13) have the same father. We split approximate 4 years ago. Despite the messy split (he was good to the kids but extremely abusive to me both physically and verbally) I tried to remain friends with him for the sake of the kids. My mother forced me to grow up without my biological father. I didn't have the chance to meet him until I was 15 and he has been a great father. I wanted my children to have their father in their lives. My husband (together 3 1/2 years, married for half a year) has been a great father figure, but he is in no way trying to replace their father. Since their father and I were not married, we did not go to court when we split. Instead, we verbally agreed to a 50/50 custody arrangement that involved the kids going back and forth every other week. My ex would continually have various troubles, reasons why he couldn't assist me with things the kids needed (medical bills, clothes, school supplies, etc.) Instead, he would constantly borrow money from my husband and I for gas. I even purchased him a used car at one point because his broke down and he said he needed one to find a job so he could better care for the kids. Back in April, he met a woman and fell in love. I was happy for him. The kids, not so much. However, I told my kids to keep an open mind and an open heart. In order to convince my kids to be accepting of the new woman in their father's life, I tried to befriend her and show them that working together was the only way to make the co-parenting situation work. Three weeks after meeting this woman, my ex asked her to marry him. Strange, but again, I was happy for him. I told the kids that having two moms and two dad could be a very excellent thing because it was more love to go around, but the kids were just very uncomfortable. I noticed that my ex became increasingly hateful toward my children and I. I tried talking to him, but it was to no avail. The kids would come home crying and very upset over the way their father treated them. Finally, the beginning of August, the kids begged me not to send them back. They showed me marks that they had where their father had hit them. He had been hitting them, jerking them around by the arms, dragging them by their feet, pulling their hair, and even throwing them down to the ground. He threatened to choke them, put their heads through a wall, and called them terrible names. I tried talking to him yet again but he denied it all and then took his anger out on them for telling me. After that, I went to the sheriff's office seeking help. The deputy sheriff spoke with the kids privately and agreed the situation was extremely concerning. I was advised to visit our local Department for Children and Families (DCF) and to go to the courthouse and fill out a PFA on behalf of the kids. I did as instructed. DCF did not open a case against him and instead looked at my children as though they were completely crazy. My oldest daughter even informed DCF that her father was smoking pot and had done so in front of her and even tried to get her to smoke it with him. When we met in court the beginning of September over the PFA, the judge granted my ex supervised visitation one night a week and every other weekend under the watchful eye of his parents. Unfortunately, his parents had been witness to the past abuse and were angry with my children for telling on their father. The kids would come home from their visits and cry. They would tell me that their father and their father's parents would treat them badly, call them names, and make them feel like crap for saying anything about what happened. Just before we went back to court the beginning of this month, my oldest daughter pulled me aside and begged me not to make her go back to her father's. She said that he had been recently coming into the bathroom while she takes a shower and opening the curtain to either talk to her or just stare at her. She also said that he has grabbed her leg up near her private area, but not actually touched her there. She also said that her, her sister, and her brother had been forced to change in front of each other and in front of their father. When we went back to court, the judge was very quick to usher us right back out of the court room. Both their father and I went pro se because we could not afford the legal representation. Their father has not had a job in the last 9 years and my husband and I have been buried trying to ensure we keep up with all of the things the kids need without the help of their father. Therefore, we didn't even have a chance to tell the judge about the allegations my oldest had raised about her father. Instead, supervision was lifted and he is to continue with his one day a week and every other weekend visits. Ever since the court date, my ex and his parents have been verbally harassing and threatening us. The kids are terrified and my oldest is extremely nervous and uncomfortable. None of them want to visit with their father and yet I am being told I could be held in contempt of court if I do not force them into a potentially dangerous situation. I have absolutely no clue what to do and yet everything I read seems to lean toward the fact that a CP HAS to force the child to visit their NCP otherwise they are a bad parent that can be punished. If he were a good father who did not HURT his children, I would have no problem with that. That is why I agreed to the 50/50 in the first place. I am not the vindictive type. I agree that children need both parents in their lives. But I am concerned for my children's safety and I am currently backed up against the wall with no help and advice to guide me in the best way to proceed.
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The Upgrade

December 18, 2015 at 2:43 pm

Sybil-there are some reasons that kids don't want to go the non-custodial parents house: 1. they don't get to play minecraft all day because they are FORCED to interact with their non-custodial parent. 2. They are told "no" a lot-especially when the children fight with each other. 3. Their custodial parent is able to provide them with a constant and thrilling entertainment schedule which the non-custodial parent can never duplicate. 4. The children don't get to take any of their precious belongings with them to the non-custodial parents house, because the custodial parent doesn't allow it, and the non-custodial parent can't afford duplicates of said items. (ipods, game boys, books, special blanket). I wouldn't want to go to the other parent's house either, sounds soooooo Boring.
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ken nodal

December 20, 2015 at 5:15 am

Gregory Forman I call bullsh*** on you hope your still following I was child of divorce as I look back on it there is a lot of things people don't consider. I wasn't forced to see my dad he was good to me but I really didn't like going to his house I did regular visits until junior high were I told them I didn't want to go as much most the time I tell him no he respected my decision he remembered what it was like being a teen. when I was little playing at his house I want to play with something that was at home mom let me bring anything I wanted but you cant take everything. the kids around my dads were ok but since I didn't go to school with them I was still a bit of out sider never was close to any of them. I do remember missing friends and family's Bdays or come home and hear about something cool that happened while I was gone not being able to spend night at friends or have friends stay with me. I had my own room at dads but it was more of a guest room in my eyes. dad lived over a hr away hated that ride the older I got also settling in at his place unpacking answering same questions over and over if step mom didn't come when he picked me up how was your week anything exciting happen I wasn't abused or missed treated never slept as well there it just wasn't home. I think part of it was dads side of family was older dad was 15 years older than mom so my cousins on his side were not my age so i was closer to moms side of family. As my teen years hit I wanted spend more time with my friends and dint forget the girlfriend my dad was cool about it. the older I got more time was about being with a girlfriend than being around either parent. I know if I was forced to go to dads I would of had attitude all weekend that wouldn't been fun for no one any one who has or had a teen should be able to relate. I would of grown resentful for being kept from friends kids can hold a grudge. I am divorced have 14 year old son I am custodial parent but I dint have to deal with the visitation his mother hasn't had contact for over 8 years. I have gave it some thought what if he did have to go see his mom now and she didn't live here and was a hr or more away. It would restrict his life he wouldn't be able to play sports since they practice sat mornings starting between 6 am and 7 am, they also practice on holiday breaks. I know you say he could miss them of them of coarse the coach would have to let him but it would affect his starting position on foot ball what he could do in other sports. what about when we go to state on weekends sorry son has to go to moms and she cant bring him here to catch bus or if she could think about his sleep before match Sports are very big here in the school and town. Then there is scouts witch is Wednesday night and they have events meetings camp outs on weekends. my son also goes to church his choosing I go with him some time she started going with a friend. schools have gotten so demanding between home work extra activities and sports most of children's socializing time is weekends at least for my son it is. this would be a lot of life experiences to deprive my son of so his mom could see him. A lot of you parents are forgetting what it was to be a teen and thinking more of what you want. Do you really want to force your teen to be with you that will only breed resentment, hate and that god awful teen attitude. Even if it the other parent is behind them not wanting to see you that parent will look as the victim and make sure the teen knows you are one forcing it. Then again it just might be a teen being a teen. Just keep loving your child and keep trying to keep line of communication open even if its just one way cards mail email. They will make up their own mind in the end even if its once their an adult. I know as a kid I would blame the parent I was forced to spend time with. Gregory Forman being a teen is stressful enough with out being forced to see some one they don't want to. yes we make them go to school eat right brush teeth don't let them do drugs drink and so on, we do that for their health and well being. yes some of the parents are behind them not wanting to go but forcing them will only make that parent the victim and the non-custodial parent the bad guy. Teens might be kids but in their minds they know everything, forcing them to go will put them in the mind set that its going to suck and it will cause they will make it that way. Your job should be to prove its the custodial parent behind it and work on getting the child help counseling to find out why. Like with me I just didn't want to go my dad respected that and I didn't close off communication with him I know i would of if I was forced.
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Peter M.

December 21, 2015 at 12:37 pm

Ken Nodal, if you hadn't written that you are divorced with a 14-year old son, I would say you sound like a selfish, self-entitled millennial brat. Most of the reasons you give for not visiting your dad, the non-custodial parent, sound like the laundry-list of complaints my daughter and her mother give me for refusing to visit. Uh hello, teenagers are still legally kids and do NOT have the authority to just blow off the other parent because they don't feel like going over there or it cramps their style. Kids are being allowed to exploit the situation by the custodial parent who wouldn't dare say no their precious little angel. You do bring up valid concerns regarding activities and friends. The child stays with the custodial parent most of the time and it is that home that is the center of their lives. Extra-curricular activities don't follow a non-custodial schedule, so if a child can't participate because of who they're with that weekend it can be frustrating. But that's where the two parents have an opportunity to discuss what the child wants to do and work out a compromise. It may be that a compromise means that not everything on the list can be done; it may mean saying "no" to the child about some activity. So tell me Ken, why does that make the non-custodial parent the "bad guy" in the relationship? Ever thought that the custodial parent's scheduling of activities on the non-custodial parent's weekend WITHOUT discussing it with them is just a setup to make the other parent look bad? I can't tell you how many times I've told my ex to NOT schedule stuff on my weekend without discussing it with me first to make sure I can bring our daughter. Not that it's ever stopped her, of course. I can't tell you how many of my weekend activities I've had to reschedule or cancel because my ex planned something for our daughter without getting my buy-in first. This includes school and social events. The vast majority of the time I just give in and accommodate her, but this sets the precedent that I am not truly free to do things that I want with our daughter. It shows a lack of respect for me and my role as a dad. And when we do get into it about "no, sorry, you can't go," *I'M* the d!ck of a dad who won't let his daughter "do anything." And just so you know, I'm the same d!ck of a dad who provides a more-or-less equal home for his daughter, with all the accommodations and distractions that kids use to ignore their non-custodial parent. She even has her own friends in my neighborhood. And I tell her that I love her and can't wait to see her again. But I do have rules, and she has responsibilities at her other "home." I guess this is enough for her to tell me FO when I insist she come for her visitation as ordered. Ken, I will point out that you never praise your dad in your comment. Oh sure, he was "good" to you, never abused or mistreated you, and let you bring over stuff from your mom's house so you could have familiar things in your own room. That doesn't seem like it was enough for you, though. But this leads me to believe that your mom set expectations for your visits unreasonably high, unfairly contrasting the Shangri-La you were forced to leave so you could spend 48 pissed-off hours without your friends at your dad's boring house. I guess you never noticed your mother manipulating you against your dad. It didn't have to be verbal. She probably never said "no" to you and gave you everything you wanted. Your dad sounds a lot like me: he did his best but because it interfered with your social life, and his familial relationships didn't line with your expectations, you chose to jettison your dad from your life like something inconvenient. Your comment has little, if any, empathy for your dad. You go on about your feelings but never mention his. And you don't mention anything about your current relationship with him now; is he a good grandpa? Did the two of you ever go to counseling, an option you bring up as a way for parents and kids to better understand each other? I'll speculate and say no, because your own speculation about your son's potential visitation with his mother doesn't indicate that you've learned anything about the role of the non-custodial parent. You put the proverbial cart before the horse by writing that your son's activities trump the proven benefit of the child spending time with BOTH parents. You've written-off your son's potential relationship with his mother as being inconvenient. You mention nothing of what she has to offer. If that isn't selfish, I don't know what is. I find it incredibly ironic that you learned from YOUR mother.
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CAL

December 21, 2015 at 10:16 pm

Ken, I have to agree a little with Peter M. I don't know your situation beyond what you shared. Yes you shared some valid points, but it is easy to tell non-custodial parents to conduct themselves when you yourself are not a non-custodial parent. Let me ask you this. Suppose you were the non-custodial where your kids were kept from you since they were 6, 8, 10 or 12 years old and were told that you would kidnap them if you ever saw them, your ex discusses child support with the kids and convinces them you you are a danger and everything you say or do should be questioned. If that was not bad enough she would refuse you court ordered visitation or communication and her new boyfriend says he wants to F*$# your 12 yo daughter. Would you be passive and dismissive where you give in to whatever they say or ask? Would you file for a contempt of court for her failure to abide by the court order? As Peter said, kids take advantage of the situation and as a parent YOU are here to raise them regardless the age provided they are minors by the law. Yes there is flexibility, but no kids do not make the rules as that is your job as a parent; married, divorced, custodial or non-custodial. Parenting is about training your kids to make proper decisions so they have the tools deemed necessary as adults. As I stated not all of what you said is bad, I just think that maybe a full scope of the situation has not been taken into account. I hope the best for you, your son and the other parent. I pray that he never has to experience a divorce personally as it would be a second brokenness. May you have a great Christmas.
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Scott

December 22, 2015 at 5:29 am

Dave- What would you do if your kid had an issue with you and refused to come home at night?
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Scott

December 22, 2015 at 5:31 am

It is her right to do so, just as it is yours.
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Scott

December 22, 2015 at 5:32 am

What would you do if your kid refused to come home to you at night?
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ken nodal

December 22, 2015 at 7:27 am

Peter M No I didn't praise my father also I didn't praise my mom they were my parents I loved them both didn't have resentment for my father he was a great man. both my parents were there for me when I needed them. I still talked to my dad several times a week same as when I saw him every weekend. As an adult I probably called dad more than I did mom. It wasn't about who I liked best It was as a teen it felt more like a interruption and a chore to go, as a teen I was wanting more Independence not more mom time more dad time. I also didn't mention I had jobs as a teen I couldn't have worked weekends If i was forced to go to dads. As I said my dad respected my decision and understood why I didn't want to go he knew I loved him. My parents passed before my son was born they would of been great grandparents at least in my opinion. Peter as learning from my mother I learned from both my parents and from what I am told I am just like my father. Teens are legally a kid but they are not children we start to let them go places by them selves we let them stay out later let them decide what clothes they wear how they wear their hair classes they want to take we give them more responsibility. With all these decisions we let them make why can't they have a say whether they spend time at the other parents house. I have read alot on this I see alot of parents who play with there kids heads But some times its just one parent thinking its that way. that is when a parent needs to talk to there teen or get out side help a consoler find out whats really going on. I Also see parents who are just butt hurt their kid don't want to spend time with them. Even in a house were parents are not divorced some teens don't want to hang with their parents and rather be with friends. There also are alot of parents both (custodial and non-custodial) who hold resentment hate toward the other parent and feel the other parent is always at fault. Cal as your example you gave I call that mental abuse and would get my kids help and get it documented and fight tooth and nail. when Ifirst divorced my ex he spent every weekend with her till she started being busy and slowly started to cancel till they stopped and disappeared.
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CAL

December 22, 2015 at 11:58 am

Ken, I agree with you and if (big IF) the parents are amicable what you point out works correctly. The unfortunate thing is that is the exception to the reality. Most people in a divorce with children are so bitter with the ex that they enter into some form of interference or to a greater extreme of alienation. My case is 6 years of wickedness from my ex and the kids are affected greatly whether they understand it or not. I cannot go into the details but after judge 3 was brought in from state 2 in hearing (roughly) 30, the judge told my ex that she needs to be amicable and that the kids need their dad in their lives and when they get older they will want to spend less time with either parent as they want to do their own thing. She continued "with that said, if you (my ex), if you continue to not allow their father in their lives it will be the responsibility of the court to force the visitation and allow him to make that flexibility necessary for them. I don't like to go down that road but the wrongs need to be righted." I understand that sounds extreme but she is right. When a parent interferes with a relationship with a parent/child extreme measures must be taken. It is similar to anything with bad habits (obesity, drugs, alcohol or abuse). It requires that what is creating the damage must be remedied in an extreme fashion and in some instances those things are permanently removed while others are temporarily removed and brought back in with limitations base on matters of self control. In PA I don't necessarily believe any parent should ever be removed from some contact with their kids but there may be a need for temporary remedy or different levels of contact that could be enhanced for less restrictions based on what steps a parent needs to do to improve the relationship but never complete severing of a relationship as they are minors as kids need both parents for different reasons.
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Rob

December 25, 2015 at 7:59 am

Greg, right on with this article. My ex is the type that "let's the kids decide" and is disobeying the court orders. She's even blaming his therapist to try and get away with custodial interference. I've been shut out of his life for over 2 years now through numerous efforts on her part, and she's trying to completely terminate my visitation (legally, she already did it physically). Children are taught to fear and comply, then they "get to decide". It works. I find it interesting that the majority of the commenters are those who do the same as my ex. Just a thought.
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Bombom

December 26, 2015 at 8:37 am

My ex stopped seeing my kids completely 2 years ago. He even failed to go to see his 17 son year old at the ICU at the hospital. This child is 18 already. But my daughter is now 17 and since I did a modification he filed a contempt on me for not allowing him to see his children. Off course i proved on the court that was not true. I saved text messages. (Kiss my phone) The thing now is that his lawyer ask for timesharing and was granted. I ask for exchanges to happen in the police station and i showed up with my daughter. She didnt want to get out of the van so i called the police and after talking to her, the police documented and let us go. I want my daughter to tell the judge why she didnt want to see her dad but his lawyer got in between saying she is a minor when he saw her there. My daughter is in counseling for anxiety, PTSD, panick attacks and suicidal thoughts. Am I going to be found in contempt for this?
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Kit Callahan

January 3, 2016 at 1:01 am

I call BS on almost everyone here. Why should your kids have to shuffle around because you make bad decision? Why should they have to have sleep in different beds, haul their junk from place to place, leave their friends? Are you okay with moving from place to place each week? What happens if you forget your favorite jeans at your other parent's house but desperately need them for the party of the century? Oh right, teenage superficial problems. You all suck. Your life is so messed up that you need a stranger to make decisions for you! Maybe your minor children should be making all of your decisions. You messed up and now you expect your kids to dance to your tune. They weren't the ones who married a wicked psycho who you now can't even work with to do the best for something as important as children. If you expect teenagers to suffer by your bad decisions with a smile, good luck. You are a tool and you are getting everything you deserve. A couple hundred years ago your 15 year old would have been a mother or father already. If your kid is smart they will use all the loopholes available to them. After all, they are not a party to your lame divorce decree, and you are just treating them like property. When my parents divorced I went to my father's, not because I wanted to but because they were both strict and I did not talk back. While Dad was building his new house for his new wife, we stayed with Uncle L. I was nine. I was molested by creepy Uncle L. Luckily my parents found out and believed me when a neighbor came forward. But my Dad somehow blamed me. He's an incredible emotionally abusive, pompous ass. I started working at 13 (babysitting) and at 14 I got a real job in a nursing home kitchen. By the time I was 16 I had decent money saved and I didn't want to go to my father's house and I was more than capable of eating my vegetables without being told. So I ran away. Since I was a good student, not a "youth in crisis" and never got in trouble so this was quite a shock. I didn't run far (the house of my friend who's parents were away for the weekend). But when the police found me they confirmed what I already knew. Ha. Ha. The police can't really do anything severe to a sixteen year old runaway. I agreed to come back to my Mom's. At first everyone was happy. After all, no good parent wants their kid out on some ratchet street doing meth and turning tricks. But then Dad tried to call some kind of legal/contempt BS on my mom just to be a prick So I ran away again, for longer, just to make sure there was no misunderstanding. I missed two days of school. The school counselor acted like it was a code red. I was an honor student, a prior abuse victim. I agreed to come back only if my Dad would leave me alone. He did. Everyone played by my rules. They all knew I would really leave forever if needed. And I think my Dad feared I would somehow expose his true character. Some jerk lawyer tried to throw down some crap about emancipation. Another talked about counseling and documenting all the abusive situations with my Dad. Anything to keep the billable hours going for them while I wallowed in misery. In the end I got what I wanted. I am not property to be divided. So I made the legal system work for me. I don't care what the courts say about minor children, teenagers deserve the right to have a say in their living arrangements. Within a few years they will be adults on their own. If you have to force someone to be with you how could you find any joy in that? You have to be their parents for the rest of their lives not just until 18. Do you think they won't resent you? I refused to play by rules I did not agree to. My advice for kids - take control if you truly don't want to keep living in misery. If you can't run away, at least get your own lawyer. A real lawyer. The guardian ad litem is just the court appointed cog looking for a paycheck. And by the way, the teenage runaway theme was pure college essay gold. Now that I am an adult I actually have a good relationship with both my parents. I call and visit them because I want to not because I am forced.
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Thomas

January 3, 2016 at 8:20 am

For as long as parents are legally responsible for what their kids do, kids need to do what they are told. Period. Advocating angry kids run away is immature and irresponsible. Parents don't lose their time with their kids simply because the kids have something "better" to do. They and their psycho mother are cashing my checks, demanding gifts from grandparents they ignore, and then claiming that they have "rights." You have rights when you're paying your own way, kiddos. Sorry - non-abusive, non-custodial parents should not have to forfeit being a part of their kids lives because the other parent alienates them. Fortunately, one of my kids is smarter than her mother and sees through it all. I monitor their calls and it's one alienating question after another. Good luck denying it in court in March. But, my daughter tells her nothing about her time with us ... just keeps mum and lies to her. Sad a kid has to do that ... I have told her repeatedly she can tell her mother everything she sees, hears, and does - and she chooses not to. My daughter on the other hand feels completely comfortable telling me her goings-on at home. You went to see your grandma? Awesome! Did you have fun? Great! You went swimming? How long can you stay under? When psycho ex calls my daughter, it's "Are they ignoring you?", "Is daddy playing with you?", "Did daddy work today? Who did you stay with?", "What did you have for supper?", "What time did you go to bed?", "Are you at daddy's house now?", "Is daddy in the room with you now?", "Did he make you go to church again?" and so on. In spit of the interrogation, my daughter is excited to come here and enjoys her time. My old child - not so much. Totally alienated ... wants to stay with his Borderline mother because she spoils the crap out of him. Hope he realizes that nearly two years later, she still has no job and I am still paying for her cigarettes. She contributes nothing, and blatantly takes credit for the support I provide. So, my high schooler is allowed to avoid me because honestly he'd make us all miserable if forced to visit. He gets that from his mother - if you don't get your way, make everyone miserable and complain about how no one appreciates and understands you. Then create drama for everyone to see. Irony is he use to complain to me about her when she acted like that - embarrassing him in front of his friends. Now, I am blamed by him for everything she did.
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C

January 5, 2016 at 8:25 pm

This is exactly what my fiancée is dealing with. His teenage son refuses to go to his house and his mother allows it. Of course he doesn't want to go...she works nights as a nurse and is never home. He gets to stay on his X-box all hours of the night and have no rules. He's getting all Ds & Fs in school. His father, who is a damn incredible father (both of his daughters prefer to live with him), has rules. He has to do homework at his dad's house, he also has to eat dinner with the rest of the family, and turn the video games off by 9:00pm. He is nowhere near abused...quite the contrary. He is spoiled and the only time he wants to come over is when there's gifts & money involved...he was more than happy to come over Christmas Day! It infuriates me that his mother doesn't make him go to his dad's and doesn't honor their parenting plan, and doesn't respect their father. He would like to have the court force them to honor their visitation, however the process takes so long that by the time it goes through, his son will have graduated high school (hopefully, if his grades come up) and will be emancipated. It kills me to see my fiancée so hurt when doesn't get to see his only son who he loves dearly.
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Debbie

January 5, 2016 at 9:45 pm

Maybe your fiancee, should have thought about what happens to a father/son relationship, especially at the teen years, and if you think that gifts are what he wants, it's not, of course he's going to take them, but what he really wants is one on one time with his father, you need to step back and let that happen, hard as that may be for you, I have a teen son, his father left for another women, 2 years I forced him to go, as soon as he was told about the new women, he stopped going, and I stopped forcing, he hasn't seen his father in 5 years, and he's a well adjusted , outgoing, active 16 year old. Try to understand how he feels, be gentle.
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Kristie

January 13, 2016 at 10:30 am

I have s daughter who is 17 now and she wants nothing to do with her father! He has never really been there except when he wants and he has been just blowing her off because she was in a school sport and he refuses to take her to the meets so she did not go and 2 1/2 years passed and now he goes to court and says I am not letting him see her.. She has said she wanted to herself so I had to take her to the hospital and guess what dad never came or checked on her.. Now he takes me to court and if doesn't go with her father my daughter and I can go to jail huh what? How does that make sense! She keeps saying she is gonna run away when she gets there then what she has a police record cause her dad is a crappy parent.. Great job friend of the court!!!!!
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CAL

January 14, 2016 at 10:31 am

Kristie, first off may I say that I understand what you are saying. Custody and visitation issues are never easy as there is not only the battle of wills between child/parents but also parent to parent. As a child enters into the adolescent years they tend to fight the wills and best interest of the parents but in a broken home they feel as if they are fighting (2) parents rather than two likeminded parents even if they are both saying the same thing. Here is my suggestion for you and you have nothing to loose trying. If I were in your shoes I, being the adult, would reach out to the other parent and do some damage control for your daughter's behalf. What would help is to explain the concerns and background of what is going on. You cannot make him to get together with his daughter yet you can ask both your daughter and her father to start a visitation schedule they decide rather than you or the courts. It removes you from the liability and teaches her to confront uncomfortable issues. On the hand of your ex it allows him the foundation of being a parent as you are a third party to their relationship. If the relationship doesn't work out as a result of his inaction that is on him, not you and your child will see it and deal with it as she needs to. Children need both parents in their lives but their will and attitude of having all of the answers as a teenager is almost laughable, but in a broken home it validates, in their mind, that their thinking is even more correct but in fact is less on target. Children are always seeking stability and in a broken home their foundation is shattered. Until you both understand her brokenness in full and correctly, you will never be able to correct this problem until they are mature enough to do this on their own. The two of you will need to be in like mind as parents in order for her healing to happen and the madness to subside. Understand I am not saying like minded as a married couple yet in some ways that is hard to separate. Remember you both brought her in this world and as a result you both are needed for her success even if it is in a different way.
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Kristie

January 14, 2016 at 11:24 am

Dear Cal, thanks that's awesome advice.. I will try that even though I have tired a dozen times but I will always keep trying for my daughter.. She does need to learn to face things for sure.. Thanks very again.. It really touched my heart. My daughter is my main concern.
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C

January 14, 2016 at 12:27 pm

Lol...you have no idea what you're talking about. Sadly, his son could care less about family which is encouraged by his mother. His mom was like that when my fiancee and her were married. In the 17 years they were married, she went to very few family functions because she "doesn't like family stuff". His family is wonderful and loving but she comes from a very dysfunctional family and has no concept of what traditions and family time are all about. And no matter how hard my fiancee tries, his son won't budge and his ex supports him. I love the kid and get along wonderfully with all three of them, but he absolutely is spoiled. And he's got that "I'm 18 and I'm an adult" attitude and thinks he's now above household rules. He wants to stay at his mom's where he has no rules, no bedtime, no chores, no homework enforcement, etc. The only time he comes over is when he needs something material. His actions have nothing to do with me. I work an opposite schedule as my fiancee so the kids get plenty of alone time with their father without me, something I've always encouraged. Yes, we do things as a family but it's important to me for him to have time alone with his kids. It's garbage that you'd jump to blame me and tell me to "step back" and imply that it's "hard for me". For the record, I met my fiance 2 years after his divorce. His son's actions started before we met, when he turned 18 and became an "adult". I'm no where near the other woman as in your situation. Quite the contrary. His ex-wife was a serial cheater who ended up pregnant with another man's child while they were married. I'm sorry about your situation, but not all of us step-parents are evil homewreckers who are trying to come between our loves and their kids. I'm a good person who'd give anything for my family. Their happiness means the world to me, including my step-son's, no matter how bratty he is being at the moment. I'd love nothing more than for him and his father to have a great relationship. My husband died of leukemia and I was widowed young. Him and his father had a very strained relationship which was mended when he was dying but his dad missed out on so much of his adult life and both of them had so many regrets. I'd hate to have my fiancee and his son go through something like that.
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C

January 14, 2016 at 3:56 pm

Debbie, I should also add that my fiancee and I don't even officially live together yet. He "lives" with me when the kids are at their mom's but has his children at his own home when they're with him. They've never spent the night at my house and I don't sleep over there; they are not forced to share their time/home with me...yet. A counselor-friend advised us against cohabitation for the kids' sake and we're taking her advice. Like I said, my guy is a great dad...it was important to him to set a good example for them and we will not be combining households until we are married which will be in the summer. And we planned it that way so there is no disruption caused by the wedding and move during the school year. We are doing everything in our power to be good parents and good role models and put the kids' needs and feelings first. The issue is not with him/us...the issue is with his ex not not encouraging a positive relationship between her son and his father and not enforcing/following the parenting plan that she agreed to which is in the best interest of the kids. She'd rather be a selfish and bitter ex-wife and alienate her son from his dad to spite him.
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C

January 14, 2016 at 6:01 pm

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. I'm wondering if you were married to the same woman as my fiancee.
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Sharon

January 19, 2016 at 4:49 pm

It is real..my husband and I deal with it now..we know we ate not aweful ppl. We live her yet she creates things like dadfy wishes I was never born, never wanted me.I ask her he said that to you..she said I just know.. His other daughter told us mommy tol
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MichiganMother

January 28, 2016 at 8:08 pm

My 12-year-old daughter woke up to her dad masturbating next to the bed that she and her sister were sleeping in. Her father verbal admitted to me that he has a sexual sleep disorder called sexsomnia. That he had on multiple occasions been told by other people of committing such an act. That he has no control, recollection or these acts and further, that he has know about them for two years. I reported to CPS, the court, my daughter reported to therapist. Guess what? He denies it and I have no "proof" unless the judge allows my daughter to testify. So, while waiting for our trial (possible months from now) should I force them to visit their father overnight per COURT ORDERS, or be held in contempt for protecting my children? By the way, the friend of the court caseworker called BS on me for letting my daughter decide not to go and likened the "incident" to "not abnormal for kids to walk in on their parents during sex." So, I'm calling BS on the ENTIRE SYSTEM claiming to have children's safety and health as a priority.
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CAL

January 29, 2016 at 1:53 am

Michigan mother, I am concerned about the account you stated and there are other legal recourses you can take BUT I strongly suggest that your facts and information is 100% spot on. I am an advocate that all parents should have a right to visitation and communications with their children, yet in some cases there may need to be restricted access to a parent either by sexual or physical abuse especially if convicted. Now with that said, if it were me I would file a police report then an emergency restraining order for child endangerment. Both of these issues fast track the problem and must be heard by a judge within 72 hours (minus weekends/holidays). If you want you can always file for a modification of visitation or ask for a court appointed GAL. Remember Newtons Law applies with every filing (with every action there is an equal and opposite reaction). Be careful of being unreasonable yet be a parent who protects the best interest of your children. Make sure your facts are true and you find some common ground if you decide to proceed forward with anything and make sure to talk to your lawyer.
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Zack

January 30, 2016 at 8:54 am

I agree sybil. My son when he entered high school did not like my my wife (his step mother) and chose to not visit. Did not want contact, etc. I left him alone. Call after a little while to make sure he didn't want contact. After 3 years (senior in HS) he came around do to issues with his mother. We have a great relationship after the brief departure. With his brothers, there have been similar stents without contact 6 month etc. Again if anything it strengthened our relationships instead of forcing something on them. 16+ children need to learn the repercussions of their decisions, right or wrong. And yes forcing to eat veggies is a cop out on why lawyers get paid and argue useless points. Our oldest refuses to go to his moms, we have talked to him and she has agreed that "when he is ready, she is waiting" but yet I get constant banter about being in contempt when she has agreed to wait. Flip flop flip flop
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nikki

February 1, 2016 at 8:55 am

My daughter is 7yrs old and her father drinks alot in front of her and has gotten into street fights covered in blood.. gets drunk and starts punching holes in walls in front of her... refuses to help support her in anyway even being court ordered.. he has 2 other children that want nothing to do with... she has stated many times she doesn't wanna talk to him or see hom because she is scared.. i currently have a protective order against him because he can be very violent... i dont want to force her to go... what should i do?
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Jane Smith

February 12, 2016 at 7:56 am

If my daughter, who has only met her father once and whose father has made it clear he wants nothing do with her or me, doesn't want to see him then I'm going to make damn well sure I do not enforce the law on her if a judge was to order joint custody. If a child is UNCOMFORTABLE with a parent then something is definitely WRONG. Its not bullshit its a major factor to consider in the case. The non custodial can visit the child(ren) at the custodial parent's home with supervision if they feel they want to visit. But NEVER force a child to go to a home and or location where they feel unsafe and or uncomfortable. I speak as responsible parent whose not afraid of facing a judge and telling it like it is. I'd much rather be held for contempt for protecting my child than dealing with lawyers like you.
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Gregory Forman

February 12, 2016 at 8:13 am

When what you fear actually happens let me know.
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Peter M.

February 12, 2016 at 3:44 pm

Well said Mr. Forman. Sounds like another chicken-hawk mom who's never been forced to experience the consequences of her words and actions. Being confined in the county jail for up to 180 days should be something to fear.
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Trisha

February 16, 2016 at 2:39 pm

My husband has 3 children from two previous marriages, ages 25, 18 and 16. His 16 year old is considered to be a teenager out of control. Skipping school, sex, drugs, bullying and assault to name a few. She assaulted her mother last year and was institutionalized for psych review. They determined her to be bipolar (which her father is) and began medical treatment. Last summer she asked to come for a visit (we are in Connecticut) during school vacation for 10 days. After returning to her home (Massachusetts), she called and wrote begging to come live with us. I was very skeptical of her as she is a high maintenance kid. However, I ended up relenting and allowed her into our home. Now she has friends and specifically a boyfriend. has decided she doesn't want to take the medicine anymore nor go to counselling. She was being grounded for skipping school and could not make it past day 3 before she broke curfew. We then implemented the no friends over rule as permanent because we could not get her to comply with the grounding rules, she decided to not return home after going to a friends home. She is staying at the mother of a 13 yr old friend of hers who lives directly across the street from her boyfriends house (very bad neighborhood). We have tried to get her to come home but she refuses and says she is never coming home. We have found out that this woman (single mother) has done this before to teenagers (was a foster mom) and has a notorious reputation for doing this confirmed by the Juvenile court here. What should we do? Right now we have not involved DCF hoping that without giving her $$ she will force the daughter out of her home and she would have no choice but to come home. We believe this woman to be attempting to profit from a naive teenager. I am not sure if she will be granted any support by the court system as my husband has joint custody and their is no support agreement attached to it (he has a spotty work history due to his illness and is not currently employed). I am hoping this woman is between a rock and a hard place. My husband and I provide a much better environment than she does. This woman is despicable letting teenagers run her house, smoking pot and having sex!! There is very little adult supervision in the home. And this is a person who is approved to be a foster parent?????!!!! Screwed up system! Anyone got any suggestions or knows if she has a case?
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Mary

February 21, 2016 at 7:31 pm

My daughter gets visitation with her daughter. Her ex has custodial custody. For the last year and a half they have ignored our phone calls, texts, and mail/cards to my granddaughter. So finally at Christmas he let her talk to us on the phone. Then meet at a pizza place to exchange gifts. He also informed us that she doesn't want to see us or come over. But when I talk to her she says her step mom blocks mine and my daughters phone number. He.states he let's her make her own decions. But I ask if she wants to come over she says I'll ask and then she says dad said no....who is making the decision. So yesterday I confronted the step mom and she stated it's her decions and made my granddaughter tell me this. My granddaughter said it is to overwhelming. ...what to see your mom and other siblings or me. When I told the step mom she tells me she wants to see us and then she says no around yall. What is going on. ...also they dont.like the person my daughter is married to (biracial ) and her. Isn't against the law for him to hold her visits? ??? But he will be the first to report no child support
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justin

February 23, 2016 at 7:55 am

I have had full sole custody of my daughter her whole life, she is turning 15 in a couple months, her bio ex last year got out of prison and decided she finally wants to be a parent. So last year, the courts ordered reintegration therapy, which ended when the mother got sent back to prison for a couple months, fast forward to yesterday, shes back, we were in court, the judge listened to my daughter, who DOES NOT WANT TO SEE HER MOTHER, but yet the courts seemed bent on forcing her to visit, what can i do? My daughter was in tears yesterday after i told her, "sorry hunny, you have to see your mom" This is complete b.s.
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Gregory Forman

February 23, 2016 at 8:25 am

Is there a stepmother in the picture? If so you should have attempted termination of parental rights and stepparent adoption while the mother was in prison. You still might attempt this but it will be harder. Failing that you tell your daughter that she only has one mother and she should make the best of the relationship that she can. If the visitation goes poorly you can always ask the court to terminate it.
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justin

February 23, 2016 at 8:36 am

Thank you for your prompt response, i really appreciate it. No, since our divorce 14 years ago i have remained single and raised my child, ive never received any form of support from the bio mother. My daughter was in tears yesterday after court when i told her i may be forced to take her to the 2hour supervised visits every other weekend. I was surprised the judge is forcing her after the judge listened to the reguest of the child. Ive explained to my daughter, that while i may be forced to take her, she (child) can choose to participate (talk) or not, my daughter wishs to tell her mother, who has been absent all 14.5 years that she does not want to do this. If and when the visit does happen, if the child chooses to go in and tell her mother she does not wish to participate and leaves, i will not force her to sit in a room with a stranger. Ive told my daughter she can choose, and who knows, she might enjoy it. If i take my daughter to the visit, and the child goes in and decides to end the visit, is that contempt?
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Angela

February 23, 2016 at 3:54 pm

So I am the grandmother of a 7 month old baby boy. My daughter and her husband got a divorce while she was pregnant. Her and him agreed for his visits to be twice a week on his days off, he could visit in our home or take the baby out from 9am to 5 pm. For the past 5 months he has been taking the baby out of the house for the visit. But she realized baby was only eating 1 to 2 oz of milk each time he would take him for the 8 hours. Now the doctor is getting concerned that he is not gaining a lot of weight. So my daughter has asked her ex to visit the baby in our home so he can learn how to get the baby to take his bottle. I do not mind doing the visits!! But he now has brought his tv and Xbox to his visit so he can play it while he is at our house for the visit. Also out of 40 visits available in the last 5 months he has only showed for 18 of them. What do we do!!
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Gregory Forman

February 23, 2016 at 4:47 pm

I don't know what you do. Your daughter can seek to modify the father's visitation if the situation bothers her.
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Chris Andexler

February 23, 2016 at 11:28 pm

Normally I would agree with Greg's assessment as he is spot on, but in this one topic I would have to say I disagree. Parental rights is a for all or for no one decision. You cannot say that you advocate against parental alienation yet ask for one parent's rights to be terminated. In my opinion Parental Alienation/Interference needs to be abolished in full. No parent should be cut off from a relationship with their minor child unless THEY sign over their parental rights to another in adoption. With that said all parents should have the right to love and have a relationship with both parents regardless of being incarcerated or not. You say that it is BS to "force her to visit," but do you not force your daughter into things she may not want to do that is not a visit? You force children to go to school when they don't want to. As a parent you force them to take a shower, clean their rooms, contribute to helping out with the family chores, so what is making a "visit" with the other parent a matter of "force" being more evil than these other things that they too don't want to do? Now with that being said it does not mean that all relationships are created equal as not all visitation schedules should be created equal. Just like in a criminal case if a judge thinks that a parent is a danger to a child (PROOF of physical of sexual abuse) the judge should issue a probation period whereto the parent would have to work on and strive for improvement going through several steps to earn time with their children. This may only be telephone calls or supervised visitation or build up into those steps with a short period where there may be no contact. If this gets violated they get demoted. If things improve so does the terms of the visitation. As for your case, sure the mother has obviously made some mistakes, and has paid for those mistakes through incarceration, but don't punish her twice and punish your (yours and her) child as a result of stupidity, selfishness, anger of any other feeling as it is not healthy for the child. There will come a day your child will come to judge you on how you handle this, right or wrong. Yes she may need restrictions but forcing her to give up her rights is purely wrong. Give her an incentive to clean up her act. Think about it this way. If this was you child who has screwed up would you want to see them endure further pain if you could control it?
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Chris Andexler

February 23, 2016 at 11:36 pm

Greg is correct here. A suggestion to consider is see if your county has what is called a "Visitation Center." I know that this is something that several counties throughout Illinois has which allows for parents to drop off a child for a pick up or supervised visitation. It may be helpful to have the outside help to direct him on being a parent and give pointers as needed. I do know that in most divorces they require both parents to take a parenting class so they understand how and what to do with their child. My thought is that he needs to take the X-Box and TV home as your home and this time is not for his entertainment rather it is for him to get to know his child. There are boundaries that need to be formed and you need to decide what is acceptable and what is not. If he is violating those boundaries then you need to get a modification which is written boundaries to be enforced.
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justin

February 24, 2016 at 9:19 am

Chris, please stop comparing apples to oranges. Do i force my daughter to do homework? No, she does it in her own because she wants to be educated, do i force her to do chores, absolutely not, that's how she earns her allowance, do i force her to bathe, no, she does it because she doesn't want to stink. If this was a matter of a younger child who WANTED to know her mother, heck yeah, i wouldnt have to force her. If her mother did what the court wanted almost 15 years ago, we wouldn't be here, if she hadnt come back last year and messed up reintegration by commiting more crimes, the child would probably still want to do it. The child has no desire to know her mother at this point and was in tears after court monday that even though the judge listened to her, shes gonna be forced to sit in a room with a complete stranger. My daughters plan is to tell her mother she doesnt wanna do this and not say another word and probably go sit with whoever is supervising the visit. Would you force your 15 year old child to interact with a complete stranger against their will? Tell me you would
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justin

February 24, 2016 at 9:51 am

All that being said, a final question is, who are we really doing all this for? For my benefit? No, i have much better things to do with my time, like spending as much time with my daughter before she becomes a legal adult in a few short years and probably goes on to live her own life without me. Are we doing this for the childs benefit? No, she doesn't want to do it, and by FORCING her to do so, what are we really teaching her? That you can shrug of a lifelong responsibility in every manner (emotionally,physically,mentally, and financially) and still feel entitled to something? Or are we doing this for the bio mothers benefit? So she can feel better about herself being a completely non existent parent. Im sorry to go on, but as someone who has broken the mold that a man cant raise a child, it does upset me that you, and others, feel that no matter what someone does or rather doesnt do, that they are entitled to something. If the show was on the proverbial other foot, and i disappeared almost 15 years ago, was ordered zero contact by a judge, and never paid a dime of order'd support, do you think i would be afforded the same opportunities? Not likely
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CAL

February 24, 2016 at 11:04 am

Justin, I know you don't understand the dynamics of parental alienation/interference, but the truth is unless a parent elects to give up their parental rights, they are still a parent and have the rights to be an influence on their child's life. To answer your question, yes a child should be required to spend time with a noncustodial parent regardless of their resistance. With that said the noncustodial parent needs to give the child, typically a teenager in high school or middle school, the flexibility and freedom the opportunity to negotiate that time between them without your influence as this is THEIR relationship not YOURS. You cannot get in the middle and seeing you have a teenage daughter allow her to fight this battle with your hands off. What she works out with her mom is between her and her mom and doesn't need outside influence on the matter. She does need your validation in the matter, but be careful of influencing her decisions. What you can do is encourage her to tell her mom how she feels and see if there can be some kind of compromise. That is to her benefit as it is her mother's. This teachs her an important life lesson that she can use later in life. Justin I am on the receiving end of the alienation of my ex with my kids and has been in litigation for almost 7 years as she has refused to obey court orders for visitation, took the kids over state lines, has trashed me because as she say "I am out to destroy you." My kids are all teenagers and they don't want to see me either for petty and outlandish reasons as well as false accusations. I do feel my 16 year old son and 17 year old daughter need that flexible to not always be required (and remember is is required not forced) visitation to be able to hold a job, hang out with friends or do some of those things they so desire. I have also seen that they have been subject to mental and have been told physical abuse at the hands of my ex and they will carry those scars for the rest of their lives which is purely evil and heartbreaking. Remember to be a bystander in the situation out of future respect to her and the relationship she will have with her mother. Live in peace with her as best as possible regardless if you like it or not.
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CAL

February 24, 2016 at 11:22 am

Justin made a tell telling sign that maybe you are interfering with visitation for your own gain just in your first comment. You said "I want to spend time with my daughter in the last few years before she becomes an adult" claiming it is in the best interest of the child. Them you ask the question "whose benefiting me forcing my child to have visitation with her mother when she doesn't want to?" So let me ask you the question. So it is okay for you to spend the last few years before your daughter becomes an adult, but it is not okay for her mother to spend those same few years with her daughter before she is an adult? Don't you think this is a double standard? How would you act if your daughter were saying that about you and her mother were saying exactly what you are? Would you be okay with that our would you fight for that time? From what I am hearing from you is that you are an alienator and it needs to stop for the best interest of your daughter.
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justin

February 24, 2016 at 12:19 pm

Lol, you assume to much cal, but i dont blame you amd dont hold it against you. Ive always told my daughter it is her choice and will support her no matter what. I understand your frustration and im sorry for what your going through. But please dont assume i dont understand how a family works. My daughter doesn't want this, i may be "obligated" to take her to these appointments, but if she chooses to not participate, well ill support that. Life is to short to be so angry
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CAL

February 24, 2016 at 12:59 pm

Well stated Justin. Have a great day.
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justin

February 24, 2016 at 1:32 pm

Ive been thinking about the post here, and ive realized, that maybe somethings are misunderstood. So here's my attempt to clarify some of it. 1: i am not opposed to mother and daughter seeing each other if 15 year old child wants to do it. 2: ive always supported my daughter and her decisions (i.e. when we tried the visits last year, child wanted that) 3: there has been no negative criticism about mother, no "coaching" or accusations or nothing. 4: my original post was more in regards to or along the lines of, if kid doesn't want to do it, why force it?
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Tim

February 26, 2016 at 1:57 pm

Amen Greg! It is so obvious from the commentary of those who oppose you that you have it nailed it. It is like reading commentary from sports fans talking about how the other team should have had 20 penalties called on them, while their home team should have had maybe one or 2.
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michele

February 27, 2016 at 2:39 am

My 3 boys and I need so much help. We're all at the point of feeling as though no one is listening. Here's our extremely brief bio: we ran from abuse in July of 2014. I'm almost wishing we stayed, if I knew this was the HELL we were going to endure. I'm disgusted with myself for even thinking that way because my boys and I have had the crap beat out of us - physically, emotionally, financially...u name it, we've gotten up from it. But this custody trial is destroying us. Yes, I said Trial. Someone used the word Entitlement in a previous post, and NAILED it! My boys are 12, almost 10, and 3.5 years old. Therefore, they are also being forced to see their father. The 2 oldest boys obviously remember the hitting, screaming, put downs, etc. Even though they want nothing to do with their father, they're still forced to see him every Saturday. They've had to give up friend's birthday parties, sports events, school functions, etc. to go see a man who NEVER gave up his Saturday's when they lived with him! Their dad didn't go to their baseball, soccer, football or basketball games (not exaggerating, I counted MAYBE 5 games TOTAL! NOT FOR EACH OF THEM! NOT EACH SPORT! BUT A WHOPPING 5 GAMES TOTAL!) Their dad never went to a school concert, church event, or spent the day at a playground with them. He's even gone as low as admitting to "having something else to do" instead of attending his kids birthdays. Their dad has admitted to burning theirs and my personal items: furniture, books, toys, pictures) and a month after we left our home, their father sold our things at his garage sale (his mother and sister actually helped!) So here's what we want to know: 1. WHY on earth would a Judge expect them to want to see him? Would u want to hang out with someone who repeatedly put u down, beat the crud out of u, ur brother and ur mom? 2. Why can't anyone hear us?! Now, just to set the record straight, I've been encouraging and supportive on BOTH ends. As much as I despise doing so, I've honestly tried to foster a relationship between the boys and their dad. But now I'm DONE...He's been over stepping his boundaries (restraining orders are still in effect) and recent alarming behavior from my boys has me extremely worried. No one is suggesting a modification to the visitation. No one has checked to see if my ex has started therapy. And I was recently referred to as "a pain in the ass" by my boys law guardian when I asked for an earlier appointment (FYI, their office called ME twice that hour!?) we are all overwhelmed, anxious, angry, and just fed up. If there's any one out there who can offer any advice or resources, you have no idea how much we'd appreciate it...thanks for reading. *We're in NY, btw
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michele

February 27, 2016 at 2:59 am

I forgot to ask....has ANYONE actually forced a child to see their non custodial parent only to have that child turn around in 10 years and THANK them? I'm NOT trying to be a wise guy, I'm seriously wondering. Because my boys DON'T attempt to jump from a moving car because I asked them to take the garbage out. They don't have nightmares or panic attacks over brushing their teeth. I WANT to meet the parent with the kid that THANKED them for forcing them to visitation for all those years!
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Mike

February 27, 2016 at 12:16 pm

Every situation if different. There ARE cases when custodial parents falsely claim abuse, and then use that as justification for alienation ('it's for the children.") There are ALSO cases where non-custodial abusers allege alienation to escape any accountability for their actions. Furthermore, there as cases when custodial abusers alienate the children to avoid accountability for THEIR actions. This is my situation. I've been bitten more times than I can recall to point where I was bleeding. I have had a broom handle broken over my left forearm. I have been hit in the head with pan. I have had two fingers broken on two occasions. I have been threatened with divorce, "taking everything", "you'll never see the kids", etc. for my entire marriage. My ex is alike a 4 year old, spoiled child, and she gets to keep the kids. She calls my young daughter a bitch. Pulls her hair. Smacks the kicks across the face, and then spoils and entitles them. And, she gets to keep the kids. After $80,000, CPS, the police, etc. I ran out of money. So, she gets to keep the kids, one of whom won't even speak to me. Hopefully, I can still help the younger one who I see regularly to not grow up to be an abuser OR a victim.
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Rob

February 27, 2016 at 1:01 pm

Michele, he now has restraining orders / "overstepping his boundaries" yet at the same time he and your children are being reminded of every time he didn't spend time with them in the past during your marriage, and all the things that are more important than their relationship with him. He divorced you, not his kids. Let him try to be a father on his own.
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Leslie

February 29, 2016 at 7:03 am

Chris, I absolutely HATE how some people use children to punish the Ex. As bad as it can be for the parents, the damage done to the children can be life-long and extensive, especially when active alienation has occurred and the child is led to believe the non-custodial parent has elected to abandon or discard the child. You'd be surprised at just how often this nastiness happens, especially when the alienating parent can then turn right around and explain their contempt by painting a picture that they are "afraid" of the "angry" ex. But, with respect to the issues Justin described above about the 15 year old not wanting to visit with a mother who spent 14.5 years incarcerated; this seems like a completely different scenario. There might be some very good reasons that the teenager has for not wanting to visit her mother. 14 years + in prison isn't usually done for petty crimes and what mom did does matter, especially if mom's history is such that the teenager doesn't feel safe around her. If the teenager has a logical, rational reason for not wanting to visit, she is at an age where she can be involved in self-advocacy. She should communicate her wishes and more importantly, the rational reasons for those wishes to the court, DCF, and a Guardian Ad Litem or Children's Best Interest Attorney.
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Lindsey

February 29, 2016 at 7:17 am

I genuinely understand both sides here. I've been divorced for 3 years, and live with my 5 year old daughter in a different state than her father. He could've moved (he works in a job he could find anywhere), when my daughter and I did, to have more of a presence in her life, but he chose not to. I've tried to initiate communication between the two of them, and never speak poorly of my ex-husband, because I want my daughter to think highly of him in spite of the fact that he has made little effort to be involved in her life. In the divorce decree he asked for "up to 14 days a year" of custody, and in the last 3 years, he's seen her a total of 11 days. Basically, he's missed out on a great deal of her childhood by choice. I've never told him that he can't come see her, but he's only come to her once (the other 3 visits, I took her to visit his family). When he came to visit, I drove 45 minutes each way (he booked a hotel on the opposite side of town), 8 times in a weekend, because I wanted to make sure she spent as much time with him as possible, but she panicked at the idea of sleeping over. Now, he's insisting that he is going to take her on a vacation this year whether I like it or not. I am not opposed to my daughter seeing her father, but her mental health is most important to me in this situation. I'm a teacher, and every day I see the impact custody battles and inconsistency in parenting decisions has on children. I see kids who have lived with their mother their whole lives, have things turned upside down when suddenly, at 11 years old, their custody schedule changes and they're staying with their father 50% of the time. They develop behavior problems, don't know where to direct their anger, and they become visibly unhappy. I understand non-custodial parents wanting to become more involved and I support that. But the well-being of the child should be the number one concern. Is it really "best for her" for me to send my child on a vacation with her dad because HE wants to take her? My daughter is 5. She doesn't make decisions, because she's 5. If she'd had it her way, she would've never gone back to visit her father during the weekend he was in town. That first night of a 3 hour visit was enough for her. But I made her go, because I want her to have some childhood memories with him. Now,she bursts into tears at the idea of traveling with a man she barely knows (which is his choice, not hers), and I can't blame her. I've told her father I'll try to work with him on this (I could travel where he's traveling and he could have her during the day), but he seems to see it only one way. I'm trying to give him an opportunity for involvement, without completely messing with her head. No, I don't think kids should make the decisions. And I also know that sometimes custodial parents make poor choices in how they present the other parent to their children. But I think it's important for children to be heard. In this case, I don't have to force her to go, because of the way custody is spelled out in the divorce decree. If she wanted to go, I would let her go. But I'm not going to force her to do it.
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Leslie

February 29, 2016 at 8:05 am

Mr. Forman, Thanks for putting up such an informative and excellent post. I think a lot of parents are stuck in a mindset where they can't or don't want to put aside their grievances and dislike of the ex, and they either intentionally or unintentionally work to program the child(ren) to be on their side. I think in an awful lot of examples, children are probably going to go along with the custodial parent's version of things because the child doesn't want to get in the middle of yet another conflict. In some cases though, the children get caught up in a punishment game where one parent actively seeks to damage the reputation of the other parent through saying horrible things about the other parent to the kids. I think when children start believing this, then you get situations where the child genuinely doesn't want to have anything to do with the other parent. However, this can backfire ion a really big way. When I was a child, I was told horrible, terrible things about my noncustodial parent (who was an interstate truck driver). I was told that the parent didn't love me anymore, that the parent didn't care about me, that the parent was a criminal, that the parent was amoral... (you get the idea). What really happened was that visitation was routinely foiled by the custodial parent (I'd always be elsewhere, like a relative's or friend's or even at camp when visitation was to happen), letters, cards and birthday gifts were thrown away before I ever saw them, I never got phone messages, etc. Actually the alienation extended to the entire other half of my family and I didn't get to have anything whatsoever to do with the noncustodial parent's family until I was an adult. When I was a teenager, I had a half-day from school and intercepted a bouquet of flowers with a letter that the noncustodial parent had sent for my birthday before it was thrown away. This let to me asking questions and over time it came out that I had been lied to for over a decade by the custodial parent and my step-parent. As an adult, I refused to have anything whatsoever to do with the custodial parent for over 2 decades, and it was hard going to build a relationship with the alienated parent because I had absorbed and believed so many lies. All this turmoil made a huge and negative impact on my self esteem and self worth, and my interpersonal relationships were very rocky from my lack of trust issues for a long time. The good news though is that now, I have a fantastic relationship with the formerly alienated parent. So, when there is a custody mandate, the job of the court NEEDS to be ENFORCEMENT of the visitation, unless there is a valid and significant risk to the CHILD from that visitation. I'd never suggest that parents who physically or sexually abuse a child be allowed contact, or that parents who have exposed the child to danger or harm through neglect should be given timesharing. However, in my opinion, withholding children from visitation and poisoning a child against the ex IS CHILD ABUSE. I wish the courts would take this more seriously and impose meaningful sanctions on parents who alienate their children.
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Chris

February 29, 2016 at 8:48 am

Leslie I feel that Justin's concerns are valid with her behavior, yet I do feel that each parent should have the opportunity to be a parent and build into their children. When there is a case where a parent has been out of relationship for an extended period of time a reintegration process should be instituted and it is beyond me to understand why judges don't take that into account and award more time for good behavior and less time for bad. As for the teenage issue, I had a discussion with judge 3 in my case after my ex tried to obtain an order of protection to justify violating my visitation with my kids. She looked at both of us and said "learn how to get along for the children's best interest. There will come a time where they will become teenagers and want to hang out with their friends more than you. Don't be offended because this is all about growing up and truthfully as a result of the pain it is an understandable escape to think about better things." I have a 17 year old daughter, a 16 year old son, a 15 year old son and a 13 year old son. I grieve for the 7 years I lost with them but at their current ages I cannot expect them to relive those lost years. Rather I need to deal with that pain and be able to enjoy that time of them being young adults when I get that chance again. My kids have jobs, friends, school and so much more, yet at the end of the day allow for the noncustodial parent to set a date to go to dinner with their kids or to spend some time and hear their heart. It can make for them to be better people. Note that I am writing this 1 hour before stepping into court to try to bring resolve to a case that has been nothing short of a bias mess.
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Leslie

March 1, 2016 at 6:40 pm

Chris, So very sorry to hear about the alienation that has been happening and it seems to be something courts rarely care about. My husband put his ex-wife through graduate school and she got a doctorate in psychology. He was also the primary parent for their children during their early years (mom was teaching classes while getting her doctorate.) The marital deal was that she would return the support ans he would be able to get to go get his BA degree after she finished her dissertation and got a full time teaching position. However, she reneged on the deal, reconnected with an old boyfriend who also had a doctorate, and filed for divorce. Placement during the separation was 50/50 until the mother decided things weren't going her way and she started making false allegations of "grooming for incest." Amazingly, the incest allegations were disproved (not deemed "unfounded" but were disproven, which I guess has more gravity in court, as I understand it.) However, since the mother had accepted a teaching position out of state (close to the boyfriend), she got primary and he got most of school breaks. This went on for a few years until after Mom published a number of papers on high-conflict interactions of divorced couples, with the biggie being a professional paper on how custody mandates "harm" the children and victimize the woman, especially when she doesn't like the ex and he makes her "feel like she has less power". The year after the biggie paper was published in a Sociology journal, the mother made another round of unfounded and false child abuse claims (mostly neglect this time) to DCF specifically to create a document trail to justify withholding the kids, and then she withheld the kids from visitation. She also ran down to the court and petitioned for a modification. By this time, the mother was making 3 times what dad made, and had married her boyfriend who makes significantly more than she does as a toxic pharmacologist. Mom drove the litigation costs way up with getting a best interest attorney and getting venue shifted to her home state (so the father was paying out of pocket for every meeting, conference, appointment, ect.) The father couldn't afford an attorney for round 2 of the custody litigation. He broke down before the trial in the last round of mediation and told the mediator that all of the conflict was damaging the kids (the eldest was seriously acting out by now, including being sexually promiscuous, sharing prescription meds with her friends, shaving her head, skipping class, etc.). He said that one of the parents had to just stop fighting, so he was going to make the sacrifice. He begged that he be allowed to have unmonitored phone and email contact with the kids, and he could send presents as he saw fit to his kids; and he got that in the modification. Fahter also got visitaiton, but it could only happen in the children's home state and the mother had to approve the visit time(s). The second they stepped out of the court room, the mother violated the new order when she refused to let the father give his son the Nintendo DS that he had brought for Christmas. The father was allowed to see his kids all of twice (I think, it might have been only once). Father's phone calls are never returned, dad is lucky to get a 5-10 minute call with his son every other Sunday, No gifts have ever been received by the kids, no emails responded to... you get the picture. The older child (daughter) is now 20 and refuses to have anything to do with her father, spouting vitriol about how he "abandoned her", and how he "doesn't care about her", and "how he wasn't around for 7 years", and she told her father that she introduces people to her step-father as her "dad". The girl has even dropped her last name on all of her social media. We don't know if she has had it legally changed or not. In the past few months, the only contact the father has had with his 14 year old son, being the every-other Sunday phone call, has almost completely stopped. The timing is particularly hurtful because the phone calls pretty much stopped right after the father's dad passed away. So, the father has no choice now but to go back to court as a pro-se litigant and try one last time to get the court to enforce contact. He doesn't think he will be very successful, given that he's going up against an adversary who, according to her resume, is a "social scientist" specializing in "marital separation, families, identity and conflict". She also has the gender and now is earning about 4 times what he earns. I feel for you. All I can tell you is that alienation hurts everyone, in the end. As a person who was alienated against one of my parents, I know that once the truth does come out, the alienation is going to backfire. The child might be grown by the time they find out the truth, but secrets never stay buried. The best advice I can give you is to start preparing yourself for reintegration, and your best assets will be proof (like legal documents that show you fought to be part of your child's life, and documents that prove timelines, in case the alienating parent has gone so far as to spin a "dad doesn't care about you" story.) When I,as an adult, looked at the actual documents from my parent's divorce, it became crystal clear who was lying and who was not. Although I love both of my parents, the only one I would trust was the one who I had been alienated from, as a child. While you can't get back lost time, consider the fact that you have a lot more life to live. In all likelihood, reconciliation will happen. I highly recommend having a therapist help with this, since there will probably be a lot of information that the child will need to take in. Naturally, you're angry and frustrated. However, you need to make sure that when the child does seek you out, you don't unload that anger and frustration in a way that makes the child feel even more guilty or bad. However, time is on your side here, so don't give up. Best of wishes to you.
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Chris

March 1, 2016 at 7:24 pm

Leslie I am so grateful to hear your story especially after seeing the wickedness of the judge yesterday and the irrogance of my ex-wife and GAL yesterday. The judge very clearly told me that he refuses to allow me a new hearing unless there is a significant change like my kids telling him that they want to see me and talk to me. I pray God's judgement on him and his family is great and unforgiving. He then went on scheming on how best to screw me out of every dollar I have and can make in the future for attorney fees and giving it all to my ex. He has already told me that he is going to make his own rules on how he will figure child support demanding the last 2 years of financials, ignore a previous order of indigence and refigure child support on gross income rather than state law of net income including reducing for any medical costs. These people are evil and payback is a bitch and it is coming their way.
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Holly

March 2, 2016 at 9:07 am

My stepdaughter is almost 9, and over the last 6 months or so has frequently said she doesn't want to come see us. My husband and his ex separated when she was a year and a half, and the divorce was final a year later. She was a preemie, and due to eating issues has had a feeding tube in her stomach since she was 6 months old. Now, the tube generally goes unused, but her mother will feed her through it when she loses her appetite when she gets sick, and from what I understand, it must go unused for 6 months before they will remove it. Unfortunately, when the custody agreement was written, my husband had a 75 hr/week job, and it was agreed that he would visit my stepdaughter on Friday afternoons in her home until the feeding tube was removed, and then they would arrange a more traditional every other weekend schedule. Her mother has had 2 more children, gotten married, and moved twice since then. Right after her last child was born, and my stepdaughter was 5, she started allowing my husband to take her to his home during the day on Sundays instead, and that has been the arrangement for almost 4 years since, but it was never formally changed in writing. His ex goes back and forth between being civil and amicable and being hostile towards us. For example, when her current husband filed for divorce twice, she was very nice to us. When they reconciled, she went back to hating our guts. My stepdaughter is well aware that her mother hates us. Every Sunday morning, my husband texts his ex to let him know when my stepdaughter is ready. There used to be a set pick up time (10 AM), but then his ex would let her stay up late Saturday nights and then sleep late on Sundays and would refuse to wake her early on the weekends. In the last several months, my stepdaughter has been reluctant to come see us and sometimes just refuses. When she's here, she has a good time. She seems to love her little brother (my son, who is almost 2), but more often than not says she doesn't want to come. Is there anything we can do? The visitation in the custody agreement is no longer appropriate, as she's in school during that time, and my husband's ex won't allow him in her house anyway. Can a judge enforce the verbal agreement?
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Mike

March 2, 2016 at 9:57 am

Enforce a verbal agreement? Probably not. It sounds like there has been a "change in circumstance" that could warrant a judge to make an alteration to the visitation schedule, but of course you have to go to court for that if both parties do not agree. If both parties DO agree, the attorneys can simply file a new order with the court, skipping the thousands of dollars of expense for a full hearing.
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Jason

March 7, 2016 at 7:35 pm

Hi everyone, my son is ten years old and I have been in his life since day one. His mother and I are in a battle right now. I've always been apart of my son's life but only on an every other weekend bases. I've always wanted to spend more time with him. However his mother wouldn't have it. I wasn't in a great place financially until now. I have always had to work overtime, plus the weekends just to stay afloat child support makes it difficult. I'm in a place now where I can spend more time with my son. So we went to mediation I wasn't completely happy with the arrangements. But I will be spending much more time with my son. Presently my son's mother has decided she doesn't won't to sign the agreement and wants to go to court. I'm devastated, my son's mother's excuse is my son doesn't like the new arrangements. Which I find hard to belive, he loves to stay with me and he even pitches a fit when he has to go back to his mothers. Now here's my question my son's mother is bipolar and she has been committed in the past for attempting suicide I know this because someone close to her told me. However I don't know if I can prove this in Court. My son is also a type 1 diabetic which his mother has done a great job of staying on top of and i would like to say I don't think she would ever harm our son. I wouldn't even be playing this card if she wasn't backing me in a corner. Another thing she does not keep her house up its nasty. She has had much trouble getting our son to school he was tardy 77 times last year and absent 17 times. I was pissed off I had no idea this was going on. The only reason I found out was because the school called me to let me know they were having a meeting about my son's attendance. I showed up to his mothers surprise. The meeting consisted of ways to improve my son's attendance. Which his mother deflected by blaming our son. I have never had any troubles with him getting up in the morning for school. I asked my son why he couldn't get to school on time he replied it's moms fault she want get out of bed. Anyway the school is pretty determine on him getting to school on time. The next step was possibly going to be in front of a judge. I know this year she is still having trouble with his attendance. I know this is really long and I apologize please bare with me. I should have mentioned earlier that we had decided go ahead with the agreement before the judge signed it. The time my son was with me he was never late to school. My son has trouble learning in school because of his diabetes makes it hard for him to concentrate but since he has been spending time with me he has not only gotten his first a on his report card but two A's and a B. I know this sounds like I'm gloating but I really think I would be a better fit for him. So what is my chances of getting shared custody or possibly full custody.
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CAL

March 7, 2016 at 8:12 pm

Jason, First let me say that I feel your pain and I understand. You have asked a very difficult question that really doesn't have a simple answer..."What are my chances of shared custody or primary custody?" Here is the long and short to your answer, but before I do I would encourage you first to seek common ground with the other parent and obtain legal counsel. As my attorney stated to me in my case "Family court cases are based on 10% facts and 90% possession of the children." Do you have a chance on obtaining custody, sure you do, but the fight especially for a guy is much harder and much more time and resources involved than a woman. This is not taken lightly on my comment only as a standard of fact. If you are going to fight this you will need to be fully engaged and it can and will get ugly. This is why I said what I did to find some kind of common ground if you can. Now as for shared custody, if you have visitation you have shared custody but truthfully that means little more than seeing your child at the permission of the other parent as the judge is not likely to get too involved unless you can prove physical harm. The other mitigating factor to take into account is the judge and if you are representing yourself. Look up the record of the judges in your county and find out who they are and how they stand. If you are representing yourself, you will realize you will get much resistance and if a judge has a bias the resistance will be increased. I hope this helps. Good luck and continue to be a part of your son's life. CAL
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Margaret

March 14, 2016 at 1:05 pm

Have to agree with Justin. Maybe I missed something in the back and forth, did the judge talk with the teenager ( with neither parent present) to ask WHY she doesn't want to see this woman who happens to be her biological mother? Let's face it- she is not "mother" Greg, being a parent isn't a right and creating a child doesn't make one a parent- it's a privilege and with this privilege comes responsibility. The biological parent in jail, it appears has demonstrated what?? At the center is the child, not the mother. Listen to the child. Why, why, why doesn't she want to be forced to spend time alone with a near stranger? 15- now that's a great age, isn't it? Anyone out there want to re-live 15? Add having a mother incarcerated. Validate this young lady, her wishes are more important than her mothers. Each case is unique.
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Justin

March 15, 2016 at 6:48 am

Thank you for the reply Margaret, Yes, the judge did listen to the child alone, and when court was over the child was in tears because he wouldn't adhere to what she wanted. Last year, when her mother got out of prison, she took me to court to get visitation, the judge ordered reintegration therapy, and the child wanted to do it then, then-the mother got sent back to prison for about a year. When she got out, she took me back to court. After she got sent back to prison, the child was hurt and disappointed, i believe this is why child doesn't want to do it. Now weve been ordered to do supervised visits through casa, which i believe is good, casa will listen to the child. So im forced to take child to visits, but child can refuse visit apon arrival, if this happens a handful of times, casa will cancel further visits, and report to the judge that CHILD refused visits. Could be the best thing. This whole thing should not be what either parent wants, but what the child wants. If we were dealing with a younger child, i could definitely understand forcing child to do something, but we are talking about a 15 year old, who is highly intelligent, and knows exactly what she wants. Throughout this whole thing, ive always told her that no matter what she SHE decides, i will support her.
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Slays

March 17, 2016 at 7:17 pm

My ex has not seen his children on his scheduled visitation days for about 3 years...he will see them maybe 1 time a week for an hour or if he is in a really good mood maybe twice. He has never been denied visitation he Choose not to. I have never brought him to court about either because to be honest he is soo unstable. All of the sudden he send me an email "he is enforcing his litigate rights" knowing my 15 year old was going to a dance and does Lacrosse. He is stating he is making the rules of what she can and can not do on his visiitation days...Get the heck out of here? Can he do this??? Just jump in 3 years later and start ordering everyone around???
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Lyn Sanso

March 19, 2016 at 9:24 pm

My ex has not seen his 16 year old in 6 months. He calls once a week and now wants to take our son to Italy. My son does not want to go. He must attend summer school anyway. He has a fear of flying and a fear that his father will not bring him back. I have not influenced his decision and told him HE must discuss this with his father. I don't believe I should force him to go. I hate the situation, but it was his father's choice to move out of the country. Advice.
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Sandy

March 20, 2016 at 11:01 pm

Cal, Of course you can force a child because "you can". You like to control the living human beings like they are your possessions and they have no opinions of their own. The lawyers like you are making money and supporting emotional abuse over kids. You are making money and you will prefer that there are cases that you can fight in the legal system. Question -- what happens the night child turns 18 -- does he/she acquires sudden wisdom to make independent decision of what he/she wants in life? You do not think that kids should have an opinion. You want to force it down their throats. It is about time that kids are treated as humans rather than slaves or pets.
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James

March 23, 2016 at 8:01 pm

I am divorced and have primary custody of my two son's. It was agreed she would have them every other weekend and every other Wednesday she could exercise a overnight visitation, but it ended up say she could exercise a every Wednesday visitation. I signed it knowing she wouldn't have them on Wednesday's. So at first I would remind and schedule the Wednesday visitation with her, every other Wednesday. However if I didn't remind her she didn't call to arrange the Wednesday over night stay's. My oldest explained that he felt uncomfortable around her at times. The reason I believe he felt uncomfortable is because she called the sheriff to have me arrested. He was there listening to the lies she told about me, when I got home and was being told what I was caused of, her father vouched for me. When the sheriff left I walked in our house and he grabbed me saying, dad it's not your fault why is she lieing. I told him to go play with his cousin. He doesn't want to go stay with her at times during the week. He says it's a inconvenience because I have to take my computer and printer so he can complete his school work. I believe they need both parents. But after having 4 false abuse charges and several restraining orders, at what point through this should I stop making excuses. I am a firm believer that the children need both parents. So over the years of having her curse at our boys, enough is enough. I no longer feel I need to inconvenience them during the week. I still ensure they go every other weekend. But if I quit reminding her it's her weekend she would forget. There is much more to some stories, then my kids just want go. Frustrated and tired of reminding her of her visitation. So there are always two sides to every story, this one is my boys and i. In court the stories aren't complete unless proper questions are asked to both parents. So your advice would be
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Amalin Breton

March 27, 2016 at 7:49 am

I am in court with my ex because and the court granted him supervised visitation. The problem is, during the very first visit he was rude to her and she decided not to be part of the visits, so visits were never supervised. My problem is, i live far away from my mother ans i just had a baby( not working) and now is harder to travel there. My mother also is leaving the country soon for medical reasons. So if i bring my child to him overthere i will still be in violation.what should i do?
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Mike

April 1, 2016 at 7:41 am

So, my son is already alienated from me at 16 ... and now apparently she's gotten to my nine year old daughter as well. She sometimes have behavioral issues, such as lying, "drama queen", horribly poor sportsmanship, and bossiness. Frankly, she learned these behaviors from her, and it's sad. No parent wants to hear their kids teachers say she lies, get angry when she doesn't get her way, and is a drama queen.They used those words. During her last visit, after some example of horrible sportsmanship in playing with other kids, I had her come in the house, took her to the other room, and privately told her that this behavior was not acceptable. She refused to pay attention, kept turning and walking away. I held her arm and at that point raised my voice. This week at therapy, she told her therapist - exactly what I described. Now, the therapist has called social services and I am under investigation, again for this third time. The "charge" - emotional abuse. Because I held her arm and raised my voice. Seriously - this is the complaint. I have now lost Spring Break with my daughter, and she will miss her Easter basket form me, gymnastics class, a surprise birthday party we had planned for her next week, and a belated Easter egg hunt through church. Frankly, I told the therapist off on the phone ... maybe I should not have, but this is ridiculous and I have had it with this process. I cannot afford to go back to court - we just settled a month ago for God's sake, after spending $80,000 total. Now I have to pay my attorney to call social services this morning, and I told her that I will NOT speak to them. I'm just not going to. It's a 50 miles drive each way and I refuse to do it for something so ridiculous. In this state, you can spank you kids. I held her arm and raised my voice because she was being a brat? My guess is Mom wants to do something over Spring Break. Or maybe this is retaliation for two weeks ago when I had to explain to her that yes, she needs to pay taxes on her $35,000+ in alimony last year. It's like she sits around all day and just thinks of ways to ruin my relationship with the kids. Emotional abuse. Really. My daughter has a blast here when she visits. I have hundreds of pictures and videos, as well as multiple witnesses who are regularly here. And the therapist don't care. "She's afraid of you." Her mother would slap her across the face, pull her hair, and call her a *itch at 6 years old. And she's afraid of me? I think she's afraid of her mother and she's projecting or something. It's like it's hopeless. I can't keep doing this forever, it's affecting my job performance, which is suffering. I have never missed a payment, been late for a pickup or drop-off, and I have paid every since medical expense for which I received proper documentation, well within my 30 day window. And none of that matters. The only thing the "system" cares about is that my check clears every month.
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Rena

April 2, 2016 at 7:40 am

My son has been traumatized by his dad since he was born. I am humiliated to say I married my sons dad so my son wouldn't be picked on as he is biracial. Ignorant excuse. Horrible excuse now considering he is 9 and we left die to extreme abuse from his dad. My sons dad told him that God listens to children more then adults therefore left it to my son to get me to come back to him. Recently I found out he has been yelling at my son saying it is his fault I never came back. His neglect and manipulative practices and abuse are known but in the government's eyes. It's a cultural difference. My sons has been being raised as a Christian and his father went back to practicing Islam and told my son I am not his mom because I am not Muslim and other things. We have put up with so much my son says he doesn't want to see his dad but is afraid of what he will do if he decides not to. When the only witnesses to abuse are the abused. No one listens.
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Yvette

April 5, 2016 at 7:06 pm

I CALL complete bullshit on your theory especially if you don't have a complete hx of the unavailable parent. In my situation I have raised my 14 year old ALONE from the time he was born because the father was absent doing drugs and screwing other women. He was even taken to court for child support and got away with years of not paying. Fast forward to now, he is married to someone that works in CS enforcement and he pays outside of the court system. Fot several years when my son was 11 I tried to get this man to spend time with his son only for him to come up with excuse after excuse. Now all of a sudden he wants.to spend ti.r with my son, but my son is not interested saying his father doesn't know him and clearly aware of him being absent for all of those prior years. Jis father is verbally abusive to me when he doesn't get his way amd personally I don't think he has any say so whether he can see his son or not at this point. He is very unhealthy emotionally and clearly has a lot of growing up to do.
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Yvette

April 5, 2016 at 7:17 pm

Addendum to last comment. I forgot to mention my son is now almost 15 so for 4 years I tried to get this man to interact with my son on a regular basis to which he failed miserably and now wants to see him. Now that my son is almost an adult he wants to demand to see him. My son doesn't want to stay at his home, he will only agree to spend a few hours with him every.other weekend which is ok with me. Do not judge me or my reasoning for this when you don't have the whole story.
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Darren

April 9, 2016 at 7:24 pm

If there is coaching from the custodial parent your theory may have some but only some merit. Fortunately my position is just the opposite more often than not my ex spouse chooses to not exercise her right to visitation and there is no court in the land that will force her to honour her commitments and obligation the children. I definitely call bullshit on your practice. Most of your arguments presented are in either or form, can a child choose to do what's not in their best interest as opposed to being forced to do what's in there best interest? In that case the answer is no. Having said that forcing visits on a child is not always in their best interest. As for parents having a right to influence their children's lives that goes along way to explaining the high rate of substance abuse in children of split families. To put it bluntly their crack head parents have been allowed to influence their lives. Forcing a child to spend 2 hours with anyone they dont want to be with is akin to kidnaping and unlawful confinement.
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Sarah

April 15, 2016 at 4:06 pm

Is there any point in trying to go back to court when a custodial parent says a child doesn't have to visit? The custodial parent will bring one child, but not the older one. Then tell the younger child that she can make her own decisions about what time to meet and so forth. It might not seem that bad, but the custodial parent moved 4 hours more away. We spent thousands of dollars on a court order that appears unenforceable. With just three years of (possible) visitation left, what can really be gained by going back to court? Or is there anything that can be done?
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Richard Forester

April 15, 2016 at 4:38 pm

My ex wife does that to me all the time and I hate her for doing that to me. I love my girls and only see them every other week. But since 2010 she tells me instead of asking me if I mind that they are not coming to see me on my weekend. I live 3 hours from them so when I get them I drive 2 hours one way compared to her 1 hour drive one way and she refuses to drive any further. But that is not my worry not seeing my kids when I'm supposed to is my worry. In order for me to do something about it I would have to take a day off from work drive 3 hours one way just to do the paperwork to take her to court which only takes 5 minutes to do just to get a court date and take another day off for court. She knows I can't afford to do that so that's why she does it to me. Over the last few years she has made me think to myself many times why do I even try to stay in their lives but I've never acted on it but I have told her that she makes it wear sometimes I hate being a dad and I should not ever have to feel like that ever. The only thing I ask for is when our kids are supposed to come to me I want them nothing more. It's very frustrating and hard.
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Lucy

April 18, 2016 at 8:53 am

Currently in our fifth round of court visits...the only difference this time is my step children now reside with us full time! Both children (twins) have been subjected to emotional and physical abuse at the hands of their mother and step father. They are nine...and both live in fear of ever having to see their mother again. As a mother myself to my own two children I can imagine how hard it must be if you are told your children don't wish to see you, but I wouldn't encourage two 9 year old to ring up and say they don't want to see there mother (which is what their mother wants them to do). We have asked for help and support to build relationships from social services (who placed the children in our care) the police, the doctors and all have failed miserably in helping any of us! What are we supposed to do to help our whole family? Force two nine year old a kicking and screaming crying to go to someone they dislike and fear? Absolutely horrific that people think it is not emotionally more damaging for everyone involved for that to take place!
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Donna

April 23, 2016 at 9:46 pm

Apparently we are all so wrapped up in the NCPs "rights" to see the child that it doesnt matter whether they are a good or bad parent. Oh and the teens dont have any rights either I suppose. The entire timesharing guidelines need to be revised to include what really is best for the child, not what rights the parents have.
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Angelica

April 26, 2016 at 8:03 pm

My question for you is do you force a child to visitation when they are being emotionally and mentally abused? The court in my area thinks this is ok.
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justin

April 26, 2016 at 8:15 pm

This site and thread is garbage, bunch of attorneys looking for money or ncp's that are to salty to see their own fck ups Let the kids choose, scary isnt it
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Mike

April 27, 2016 at 9:28 am

I love those who assume the NCP is trash and the CP is the one looking out for the kids. Let the kids choose? Sorry, I won't by a 16 year old a $19,000 car, she will. I lose.
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justin

April 27, 2016 at 9:52 am

Only 19k for a new car? That's a pretty good deal Lol
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Mike

April 27, 2016 at 9:54 am

Lightly used. Ridiculous for a 16 year old with poor grades.
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Shannel

April 27, 2016 at 12:32 pm

I am the custodial parent and I live in FL, the dad lives in NY. I moved here legally and I have full custody of the child. I encourage communication with her father and I encourage visitation but I also encourage him to make more of an effort to make her feel comfortable enough to go with him for a long period of time. He makes an effort when it's convenient but has taken me to court twice already in NY, in which I call on the phone. The judge has dismissed his petition for more visitation, in the court order it says visitation should be discussed among the parents. He refuses to talk to me on the phone and he texts in a manner thats almost condescending. I told him he could have spring break, a few weeks in the summer and christmas break this year. He didn't take spring break and wants over a month in the summer but my daughter said she will go with him the max is 3 weeks. I keep telling him that if he wants her to be with him longer then he has to make her feel comfortable. He's arrogant and egotistical. He continues to threaten me with court and now he says he's going to get a lawyer. I'm not refusing him to see his daughter. He's only made this difficult since I filed for full custody and to move. Before that, he would go weeks without seeing her or any contact at all. This is just a power trip for him but its giving me anxiety and grief. I understand he can't see her when he wants but I believe he should show her how much he loves and cares for her. He has 3 other kids, one is a baby and he refuses to send a picture of the baby to my daughter and he was born in October. I'm stressed with this situation and I'm sorry for the novel.
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CL

April 29, 2016 at 11:15 am

My only question would be, is there really much of a difference between 3 weeks and one month? It would be one thing if he was a terrible father, abusive, etc who she isn't even comfortable spending one day with but she says she's willing to go 3 weeks so clearly that isn't the case. Legally or not, and whether or not he's a jerk, you did move her away from him so for the sake of keeping the peace, keeping your sanity, and keeping it out of court (which is always best for the kids/family), you should maybe consider compromising. I'm not condoning his behavior at all, he does sound like a jerk, but you could make it easier as well. The reason that was my question is because it was the argument my guy used in court. His narcissistic ex tried to tell the court she didn't want him to have 2 more days per month because he's an alcoholic (not true at all!). She lost because they said he already has them 11 days - if he truly was a danger to the kids, she would be fighting for him not to have them at all. 13 days per month doesn't make them any less safe than 11 days would.
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Anna

May 2, 2016 at 9:37 am

I am just now skimming through everyone's responses and I came across this blog whips searching for parental rights and responsibilities. From a legal aspect, shouldnt each situation be looked over sensitively? These are little kids we are talking about here, proving that the other parent is emotional harmful is very difficult. I don't make my 13 year old daughter go to her dads. She ends up calling me crying because he makes her so uncomfortable and he allows his friends to call her names and make sexual remarks to her. I can't prove this. How am I supposed to prove that? She doesn't want to go. He decided a long time ago he didn't want to be a "weekend dad" so I have them legally, Wednesday through Sunday. They meaning our 9 year old son and 13 year old daughter. They usually get on the bus Monday morning from my house and come back Wednesday afternoon off the bus. Well, what's your opinion. My son likes going because they basically do nothing but play outside. Bio dad doesn't work, has a crappy house, ridiculous rules, talk shit about all women, and treats them differently then one another. HOW can I prove this? And I'm supposed to make her go there? He laughs at me and says I'm filling her head with lies and the only reason why she stays is because I have no "rules". Ugh. It's a mess. I pay for everything, he doesn't work, he refuses to pay child support, we finally settled after an 8 year battle in two different states, that we would split custody half the week. I try emailing changes in the schedule he never writes back or confirms. When please tell me when can they be old enough to at least decide when they want to visit? I mean seriously. She's pre teen, puberty, on her periods when she doesn't want to go there because he refuses to help her and says gross strange things to her. Really, I'm supposed to do what? Drop her off in tears? And leave? He's a total child when it comes to communicating and cannot see any other side but his. As for my son, he comes back from his dad's, in a different mood for the first day. He tells me his dad does nothing but complain about me and how his daughter won't visit. Ugh
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Anna

May 2, 2016 at 9:46 am

*can I also add in, I DO honestly give them the freedom and choice to go or stay. I think as far as I can tell their dad abides, but also then uses it against us. I always ask my daughter to try to talk to him or go there, she often replies "what's the point he won't listen". It's sad. I feel sad for her, and that he's missing out on spending time with his child. I encourage them both to go to see him, sometimes relentlessly. My son always goes and that's great. My daughter... Lately these past couple weeks just won't go more than one day a week. I have offered to him to change the schedule or days or custody or whatever would work, he just won't do it or budge or try. His answer is always, "I'll think about it". This is also the answer he gives them, and her for the past 13 years. No commitment no follow through nothing and now she knows that and sees it and I can see she is giving up trying to talk to him. I've been trying to tell him and email him, he needs to try harder with her. He just hates me anyway so it's no use.
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Bombom

May 9, 2016 at 8:31 am

Im the custodial parent of 3 kids..ages 21b,19b,17g now. Their dad stopped communication from them 5 years ago. I requested a modification on CS based on my youngest medical issues. Because of that he dragged me to court trying to find me in contempt for not allowing to see his children. Obviously I saved all proof so I wasn't found in contempt. My youngest two shared diagnosed of PTSD, Anxiety, depression,gastritis, acid reflux and migraines...but only my 19 boy has esquizophrenia. We come from domestic violence and they have been in counseling for the last 4 years. The judge granted make up time sharing with her (since she didn't listen to what my daughter had to say) The sharing time didn't happen since my daughter ended up in a behavioral hospital after several attempts of her father pressuring his court order at us and she refusing each time on spot at the presence of a police officer. He stopped after she was baker act. I called CPS and they opened a case to protect my daughter even against the judge. I'm so hurt because that man took so much from us...even took my daughter last opportunity to graduate from high school. She was having one last shoot to graduate since her medical issues was paying a toll in her education but she was making it happen. ...until he showed up back again in her life. ...she was hold back again and this time has been so hard to help her. I'm still waiting on him to show his financial since feb/2016 so we can proceed to trial. So to whoever wrote this ....not every case is BS. We have a right to protect our children from abuser narcissistic men.
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Tim

May 9, 2016 at 7:51 pm

Thank everyone for their input. It has helped with insight as to my struggle. My daughter visited and Easter and was excited about coming back for the summer. Her mom and I are in the midst of a custody case. The doctor who completed the evaluation found alienation with my son, 11, but stated that with my daughter, 15, the signs of alienation are not always visible. He recommended that my son comes with me to live and that I would be the better custodial parent. Alienation is something I struggled with my daughter, and now my son, ever since the courts allowed her mom to move out of state. There has been a number of calls over the years, similar to the call I received today from my daughter, stating that she only wanted to come for part of the summer and that she wanted to find a job, do a class at a local trade school and be near high school friends. She could not provide me with a place she had in mind to work or information as to the classes she wanted to take. When I asked her to provide me that information and we would talk she yelled at me and hung up. Same thing that has happened before for different things when she is at her moms for a extended time. I feel as if her mom should have come to me and discuss my daughters goals and not allow her to call and yell at me. It has been working up to this were my daughter has not responded to calls and her mom ignores my text asking to speak to my daughter. I feel that the history and recent custody report verify my concerns as to alienation and that if my daughter was mature enough to have constructive goals for the summer she would not yell and hang up. I do not blame her as I know where she is lacks structure and her mom promises the moon.
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Tanya

May 13, 2016 at 12:14 am

My husband and I have custody of his 16 year old daughter and have since she was 13. You kep talking about forcing her to see her bio mother just as we force her to do other not so fun things and potentially harmful situations. But we do not force her to do other things that emotionally abuse her and damage her ability to become a happy, productive adult, we keep her away from those things. Her 2 older siblings will have nothing to do with their mother, she doesn't know their phone numbers or even where they live. She has men in and out of her life and is so verbally abhsive that our daughter has threatened to kill herself and we've had her in councling. Now why do her mothers desires to pretend to be a good mother out weight the child's desire to not see her? If the 16 year old committed a crime, she'd be charged as an adult, but she's not old enough to know how she wants to be treated? I agree with you for when the kids are small, but not when they are teenagers.
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Chris

May 13, 2016 at 7:38 am

Tanya, seeing that you are not the biological parent you will never understand that logic behind the philosophy is having a child maintain the parent/child relationship with the noncustodial parent. With that said she is not an adult by law and therefore a visitation order is enforced to allow A noncustodial parent exercise their God given right to parent their child. With that said IF there is truly abuse going on (which is different from an accusation or the resistance thereof) the custodial parent would have safety nets for the best interest of the child with restricted visitation of supervised visitation, but by no means should that decision process be through a step parent or foster parent and cannot be understood fully the ties that bind a child and parent. First let me ask about the suicide issue. Did she attempt suicide or just threaten to kill herself? There is a big difference between the 2and can be as a result of many things and not just A noncustodial parent. Understand noncustodial parents are the easiest target as they are away and seeing that a child (most under 25) do not have the capacity to understand or reason why a dissolution of a relationship has happened and desire to make logical sense of it as the stability of family is where a child thrives and because the trauma is so great even through counseling they never address this issue of trauma and instability. On the flip side the same trauma is experienced by the noncustodial parent but in a much different level. The damage on the child is only compounded in the teenage years as they are also coming into their selves as they are on track to becoming adults. What I say to you is this. Understand the emotional state of both the child and other parent as it will allow you to make better decisions in the best interest of the child. If you look at it as a single sided issue especially if you are not the blood parent you will make decisions that are a disservice to the child.
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Sarah

May 13, 2016 at 7:54 am

To say that non-birth parents cannot understand what a child needs is ludicrous. We are all humans, we have all had parents even if we were not naturally able to have our own children. We all have different experiences which may lead us to believe different things about parental bonds and the needs of children, but your close mindedness is astounding. I am a step-mother and an adoptive mother (two different children), I know that my step-son is safer without his biological mother who is incarcerated every year for all the crimes she constantly is committing. He has already had a couple of years of therapy because of her poor parenting skills. The assumption that people that can give birth are automatically decent parents is disgusting. I get the feeling that many of the people who post on this thread, including the lawyer, live in an upper class world full of custodial parents who use children as bargaining chips. Please understand that we live in a world of biological parents who beat, molest, and kill their own children. The assumption that a blood relative is any safer than anyone else is misguided at best.
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Chris

May 13, 2016 at 8:59 am

Sarah, Sorry if you are offended but your loaded accusations are over the top as what you claim has been said has not been said and is misinterpreted by yourself. Let me try to address your concerns. 1) You claim that our society is 'full of molesters and abusers.' The question is were you abused and what is your definition of abuse and molestation? Do you really think that generalization means that most if not all society has had a bad life? Really? I believe that my parents have made wrong decisions here and there but that doesn't make them abusers. They are just human but your generalization would make all people, including yourself, unfit to be a parent. 2) To take offense because the issue of understanding the psychological toll on a biological parent is silly! You claim that foster/adoptive parents are exactly the same, but you are only partially correct. They are similar but different. Although they both have the ability to provide, care and nurture a blood parent has a slightly different tie regardless how much a foster/adoptive parent provides. This doesn't diminish the role of a foster/adoptive parent rather explains the psychological matters and struggles a child may feel or experience. It is for this reason the majority of adopted children seek out their birth parents; to understand who they are. This normally doesn't happen though until they are in their mid 20's or later. The same normally happens in a divorced family. Although it happens there is much to have happen to bring restoration to that relationship and many times never gets to the point where it ever could or should be because the now adult child has a strange loyalty to both the birth parent and adoptive parents and struggle with that balance of loyalty. In your analogy you claim that foster/adoptive parents are better because they are human beings and some birth parents are bad. I don't dispute the claim that some adoptive parents are better than some birth parents but that is not the case in every instance. I have seen bad birth parents as well as bad foster/adoptive parents and just because you are willing to take on that role electively doesn't make one a hero as one who bears a child a perfect parent. It is no different than saying because you live in a house you understand the ins and outs of the construction of a house. As for your 'privileged' comment it sounds like you may be bitter. Not all people on this blog, including myself, are 'privileged' or 'rich.' Just like not all attorneys are bad or assumed rich. It is sad that you decided to attach people in general rather than bring a quality discussion to an important issue. I don't feel you would be able to understand the issue of parent alienation unless you lived it and I don't wish that he'll on anyone as that is not a privilege that you want attached to you. Most of us who have lived there have become homeless, jobless, abandoned by friends and family, struggle with depression, anxiety and PTSD and as a result have experienced health issues all on top of loosing every dollar they have and make as well as in extreme cases struggle with a substance abuse or suicide. So to say that an alienated parent is either unfit or a bad person I ask you to take a step back and take a large understand to the bigger picture. This is a dark prison that is imposed by a failing judicial system that adversely affects everyone involved and brings havoc on all.
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Sarah

May 13, 2016 at 12:54 pm

In response: 1) Saying that the world is full of abusers does not mean everyone is an abuser. Perhaps my word usage was misleading to you. There are many abusers. A day does not go by that I do not read about a new way a toddler has been abused or killed by their biological parents. My point was that blood is not always better, because it is not. 2) I did not claim that adoptive parents are "exactly" the same as biological parents. I only claimed that it is unreasonable to claim that being able to reproduce makes someone a better parent. You are putting words into my mouth. I am a step-mother/adoptive mother, but I am also the child of a divorce and have a step-mother and step-father. My father is crappy person, but he was not physically abusive. I stopped visiting him when I was in high school, and even though he was always insistent on his rights as a parent, he did not take my mother to court for not forcing me to go. If he had, I would hope that the judge would have taken my perspective into consideration instead of deciding that it was in my best interest to be in contact with my biological father. Again, I did not say that adoptive parents are better, I said they can be and they definitely are in my situation. Stop putting words into my mouth. You apparently are bitter about something to read into my comment the way you did. Catering to a birth parent for the SOLE reason that they reproduced is wrong. If they are a good parent, they are a good parent, it doesn't matter how the child came to be their child. To recap, adoptive parent does not equal better parent, but CAN. How is it the best interest of a child to be returned to bio parents who were such a danger to their children that they were taken away in the first place? The bio mother of my step-son AND adoptive child (yes, same woman, different fathers) has had FOUR children and has custody of one. Why does she have custody of that one? Because the bio father does not care enough to even attempt to establish paternity. That child is 3 years old, has lived in over 10 "homes", including several hotels, has witnessed her mother being physically abused and has been molested by the mother's husband, who yes, has been convicted (he took pictures of the acts). But you know what happened when I went to the police (before the husband was arrested)? They told me that because I have no familial relation to the child that there was nothing they could do. They suggested I try to convince the bio father to call the police, and he did not. It was merely a coincidence that the husband was arrested on separate charges and then the photos came to light. So, the bio mother is in jail for several months now on unrelated charges, but will she lose custody? No. She will get out and continue to endanger that defenseless child. But hey, she was fertile, so she's the best person for that child to be with. You're bitter about your situation, I'm bitter about my situation, but really, that other child is not a part of my family and I just think it's a shame that children like her have to endure such a life. I am worried about all children, not just my own. I think it is wrong for bio parents (mother's especially) to get preferential treatment because of their DNA, but I am just one nobody in a sea of people that disagree.
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Chris

May 13, 2016 at 1:43 pm

Sarah From my assessment of your content you have been hurt and not fully recovered from the divorce issues you have experienced. I understand that which you have experienced was unfair as a child of divorce and no child should have to experience that. As one of my sons told me "I didn't sign up for this divorce. All I wanted was a normal life." I will take his comment one step further. Children need and desire stability and with how the legal system is set up in hand with bitter spouses it creates a vacuum that is detrimental to a child and leaks over into adulthood. The question, which I think you miss on this blog, is how can we create a better life for children where they have the freedom and security to love both parents? It is not about the tallying of time between biological parents. There are not as many stories of abuse as one may think but because it creates for a sensational story for ratings it is the thing advertised and put on Dateline, TLC and all other crime and touchy-feely shows including the news. Let me ask you how many times have you seen a show of the injustice of the courts to demonize a parent or wrongly remove a child from a good home? This happens daily and it is something never talked about but saying the madness that is going on is acceptable is crazy. As I stated I never wish the hell of PA on anyone. Let me ask you if you feel that this is abusive. "Suppose a mother was so bitter with her soon to be ex husband takes their kids 1200 miles away and convinces a homeless shelter to build her a brand new house. According to her she tells the kids the only way they can get the house was to accuse the father of physical abuse and if they don't that they would loose the house and have to live on the street and it would all be their fault." Do you think this is acceptable behavior or do you find it abusive? How do you think this would affect a child? It is things like this that happens each and ever day and that is what we are talking about. How do you protect a child from things like this?
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T. De La Torre

May 14, 2016 at 1:17 pm

I am a bio mom to two children, and a step mother to one. My step daughter is 14, I married her Father when she was 7. That same year her bio-mom moved away, across the country. Bio mom wanted the child full time when she was 9 years old. Up until my sd moved, she made approx. 3 visits a year. SD returned after one school year, refusing to ever return. Many reason were given, and she has remained with us. At 11 years of age, sd left for what was to be a month visit (Summer), as usual. SD called crying demanding to return home after 3 days, we made her stay a full week, at which point she demanded to return home, bio mom agreed. Cause was determined to be bio mom got drunk, to the point of vomiting, this was confirmed and promised, by bio mom, to never happen again. It was mutually agreed by both bio parents and child, that further visits will be conducted in the child's home state from now on. Bio mom has two other children here, that do not live with her, so the benefit is obvious. Fast forward to a year ago, sd makes weekly calls with bio mom, only 3 out of all the calls were horrible. Bio mom called drunk on 3 occasions crying and telling the sd things such as "Your Dad didn't even want you, I have to force him into having you" The other two calls were drunk cuss sessions, yes we have heard them to be sure the sd was not over exaggerating. We sought help with our youth pastor and with sd's school counselor, to step in and attempt to mediate the situation. Bottom line is we have a young lady who is an honor student, athlete, who sings and volunteers all of her free time at church and in the teen homeless shelters here in our city. SD is doing well overall until the bio moms recently told her "you need to come visit me, or I will have your father put in jail". While both parents agreed via email all visits would be done in town, he never filed it with the courts. Following the call we caught sd attempting to "cut" herself. We as her every day parents feel like failures for this, but glad we found out (by doing a check on her cell phone text mesg.) We are seeking therapy and have offered the bio mom a place to stay, and a car free of charge during her stay in our home town for visits, if she would please not force sd to visit her in her home state, we are also trying to not to be held in contempt. Bio mom has utilized our offer recently, staying with my mother in law, but is still demanding the daughter visit her in her state for a month, status quo has been not as such since 2011.......we want the two to have a healthy relationship, and we have gotten therapy involved, all to no avail. What would you suggest?
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Chris

May 14, 2016 at 2:33 pm

T.- It is very rare I would support most custodial parents as many, especially in a contentious case, can be both heartless and selfish with a perspective on some degree to look at children as a possession of their own to some level. You are that rare exception per what you have said. The only thing I will say about the child is listen to her and do the best you can on her behalf. Don't get into the way of a relationship with the bio-mom even though she has her issues. Instead you may need to consider a motion to modify the visitation that visitation takes place near where you live rather than sending her away. Seeing that the bio-mom has not invested into the relationship and until she can show otherwise. Take care of yourself.
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wendy

May 14, 2016 at 8:48 pm

Angelica, that's my concern as well. At what point does a child's right to NOT be emotionally and mentally abused take priority over the noncustodial parent's visitation rights? My child is resisting staying overnight with her father, especially after visits where his "episodes" occur. He speaks to her in ways not even an adult should be spoken to, always with the excuse afterwards "if you didn't piss me off, I wouldn't have to treat you that way". She's nearly eight. She should not be called a "stupid f^@^ing b!&@h" if she asks to go home or mocked when she cries! And this, after he's blown her off here and there for years whenever he's felt like it. I think the tactic of trying to flip it around to "Don't you make them do anything they don't want to do? Brush their teeth? Chores?" is reprehensible. Brushing her teeth and doing her chores whether she feels like it or not doesn't result in nightmares, terrify her, or emotionally scar her. My question is how is emotional, verbal, and mental abuse proven to a court?
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Chris

May 15, 2016 at 12:49 am

Justin I followed what was going on, but what ALL parents need to understand that the law under UCCJEA requires the courts to weigh the facts independent of what a child so desired until they are 18 yo. Now with that said the states (ALL) have adopted the federal law with a caviot which allows a judge to do things on a case by case basis for the best interest of a child which may consist of instituting DCF, a GAL, a CASA or some other child advocate and may even interview the child or have a psychologist involved. The greatest issue though is that the judicial system has some extreme flaws to it where judges become bias in many cases and paint all non-custodial dads one way and all non-custodial moms one way as well. In most cases a non-custodial parent is stripped of their parental rights on the most rediculous reasons, and in some cases as yours where the mother is not engaged and clean up there act get benefits that maybe should not be afforded to them as it should be in some other case. I don't know your ex and I have only heard one side of the story from you, but imagine for a moment how you would feel if you were cut off from your child for many years. Would you fight to keep in contact in some way? Being a parent requires unconditional love and truthfully the reason a teenage child wants to cut off ties with a non-custodial parent is for 2 reasons: 1)They thrive on stability. The teenage years are probably one of the hardest times of development for a child as they are coming into themselves and learning how to transition into becoming an adult in the next few years. This is especially difficult on girls. 2) There is a level of guilt and shame a child has as a result of a dissolution of a relationship. Even though they have had nothing to do with why the relationship ended they take on a level of ownership in order to give understanding to what happened with the implosion of the stability that they once knew. It is very rare that a child would ever discuss this with you unless they were asked the correct questions and sometimes not even then. They will typically not give you an answer until their adult years around 23-25 most often because they do not understand how they feel and this is commonly ignored in the courts and never touched on in counseling. The only advise I can give you is put your motions out for restricted visitation, but never try to sever off that relationship with the non-custodial parent as it will boomerang back on you in some form. If you allow her to do what she needs and stop the battling so that you can give her the consistent stability without the interference in her relationship with her mom, it is the best thing you can do. As for the mother being in and out of jail and the courts doing supervised visitation, I find that this is a good call. Just let your daughter know having some kid of contact with her is in her best interest. If things go south and become harmful allow the CASA to know and it will be brought to the judges attention. Good luck!
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Chris

May 15, 2016 at 12:58 am

Michele You asked why the custody case is putting you back in the game with someone who has abused you. It is simple. Unless you had a hearing for abuse a judge has a hard time going off of just what someone said especially if they do not have evidence that has been properly submitted. If you leave and there is nothing to support why you left it paints you as an alienator rather than an abuse victim. The best thing you could have would be either medical records or witnesses of abuse. As a result a judge is obligated to go off of the evidence and information he/she has before him. Do you have a GAL or CASA involved? You may want to consider that option but be forewarned, those who request may be on the hook to pay the fees involved so make sure you are able to pay and check with your attorney.
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Chris

May 15, 2016 at 1:29 am

Wendy and Angelica I agree with you both that ugly talk should not happen with anyone, child, spouse, employee, ect. It is completely uncalled for. Answering your question though becomes a slippery slope due to our politically correct society. The swearing and verbal humiliation is one thing, then you have some crazy parents who would say that a parent who tells their child to clean their room and they are resistant is abuse. If that isn't bad enough children see how the game is played and are likely to inflate and make up stories against one parent of the other in order to get what they want not knowing the reprocussions involved. Children are typically all about themselves until they mature. As a result a judge has to filter through what is real and what is fake. Here is a prime example. In 2013 a judge in Illinois decided to get involved with my case overstepping the court order of visitation in another state and ordered visitation yet did nothing to enforce it. One of the things he suggested was for me to skype a visitation center in Illinois as I did not live there. Due to not being able to afford internet at the time I happened to go to a local Starbucks with my headset and sit in a quite corner as I enjoyed a coffee. The first comment my daughter made was "Why are you at Starbucks as you don't pay any child support?" I asked her candidly "Who told you I don't pay child support as I do?" She responded "Nobody, but if you didn't go all of the time then we could have more money." Again I asked her "How much do you think I spend in coffee?" She blirted out "$2867 per year." When the judge found out about this conversation he was outraged not by me and the conversation of having a cup of coffee, rather by someone having such a negative influence on my kids to have them talk disrespectfully and to have been given information that was not for them to know. Later this same judge again had taken issue about the defiance and disrespect and bullying they were doing to me as their father. So I guess the question really comes down to the fact of how a judge has to filter through the truth on an issue and has to take into account all matters of the case as some of it may be outside influence of malicious intent by one parent or the other. If you play nicely and find that there is an issue bringing it to a judge's attention they may just listen to you, but keep in mind abuse can be the flip side of the same coin and can be given out by the child or custodial parent just as much as it can by the non-custodial parent. Scrutinize what your child is saying because they may not be telling you the full story and seeing you weren't there you don't have the full truth. Approach the issue with grace. (BTW....$2867 of Starbucks coffee at the time was approximately 1,200 cups of coffee per year or about 3-4 every day per year).
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wendy

May 15, 2016 at 3:37 am

I totally understand what you're saying, Chris. If your ex put that in your child's head, it is in no way fair or good. I also understand what you're saying about scrutinizing the claims of a child, and I do, but what I relayed in my comment is only a very small portion of what I've heard with my own ears. A very small portion, not to mention what he says to her about me. Considering he speaks that way to her when he knows I can hear, I hate to even imagine what is said when he is alone with her. I know there are selfish people out there who put their own interests above their children's and try to hurt or alienate the other parent. I think I have done the opposite by trying to be as positive and friendly as possible, by never speaking ill of him while having to walk the fine line of also comforting and consoling her, by encouraging him to come to our home whenever he wants, to be more than accommodating whenever she would want to see him during "my" times. I tried to make her feel comfortable in his apartment by buying bedding and decorations for her bedroom when he didn't (in the one apartment where he actually had a room for her). I've even taken tags off of gifts I've purchased and handed them to him to give to her when he didn't bother to shop for Christmas or birthdays. No sane person would or should ever want their child to feel anything other than pride in their family and surrounded by love of their family, even when they live apart. But sometimes no matter how hard we try, that just isn't possible because of lack of cooperation. I am just trying to keep my child from suffering mentally and emotionally, which is next to impossible if a judge feels time with a verbally/emotionally/mentally abusive parent is more important than her right to not be treated in that manner. I'm at a loss and feeling like a failure for not being able to keep my own child safe from that type of treatment.
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Chris

May 15, 2016 at 8:44 am

Wendy The bitterness people can have is beyond me, especially when they are the ones that either leave or refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. I feel for you and truthfully there is just no good answer but to parent your kids the best way you can, and sometimes that includes exposing your kids to the other parent without tremendous harm. It comes back to the attive of allowing a child to fall and make mistakes without always intervening so they do not become dependent and learn how to stand on their own and succeed. In my posts both here and other places you would find that I am resolved to these very simple facts: - children are not a possession so no parent should have more rights to a child than another. - children need both parents for proper development as you offer some things your ex doesn't and visa versa. - if a parent is being abusive to a child their parenting should be restricted and given the opportunity to work towards reunification with said child. We are developing tomorrow's future and if we don't bring a semblance of stability to children of broken families and proper healing we are only growing more potential broken families for the future. Wendy, my heart goes out to you. I know your heart is torn over the matter but I encourage you to be the best you can for your kids. Have a good day.
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rodney mills

May 15, 2016 at 12:57 pm

My Daughter is 12yrs old I live in North Dakota I have custody of both of my daughters my 12yr old dont want to go see her mom cause the mom never wants to be a part of her life but always wants to be in our other daughters life i tell my daughter that she has to go and she wont go and tells me all they do is argue and fight and her mom treats her pets better then her so what should i do on this matter im writing a letter to the judge to see if he will modify the visitions
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Chris

May 15, 2016 at 3:45 pm

Rodney Writing a letter to the judge will be a waste of your time. Seeing your 12 year old is a preteen it is normal that they feel left out, argue with a parent (normally mother's have a more difficult time due to the same sex) and can be compounded by a divorce. The more effective idea is to validate your daughter's concerns then have a civil conversation with your ex if possible. If she is reasonable she take the time to invest into the 12 yo. Judges make decisions but not necessarily the best decision in the long term for a child as their decision is only an immediate temporary fix. Invest the time in your daughter and work something out with the ex. Show your daughter how to have patience and grace. In doing so you will be building into her for the long term rather than capitulating to her wants or demands. I hope it helps. I would like to see how things go.
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justin

May 15, 2016 at 5:16 pm

UPDATE for those who have chimed in either in agreeance or disagreeance with my situation, after failed therapeutic visits, the judge wanted to try supervised visits through casa. I realize i am legally obligated to take child to visit and be supportive of the visits, which i have done, so let's clear that out right now. First visit, i take child to visit and encourage her to say whatever she wants to say to the mother. We arrive, and casa supervisor comes out to talk to child and give her a "safe word" in case she gets uncomfortable. Child says she does not want to visit, casa supervisor cancels visit and sends us home explaining to me that she is not qualified to handle this kind of situation. Visit #2, i cancel visit because child got taken to hospital via ambulance from school. Visit #3, we show up to the visit, casa supervisor comes out to talk to child, child explains to supervisor she wishes to see her mother in order to tell her face to face that she does not want to do this, supervisor explains that that is not necessarily what these visits are for, but will agree, but then explains to me that the mother hasn't even showed up and cancels the visit and sends us home. Keep in mind, every week im in touch with casa admin, just staying in touch and being as fully cooperative as i possibly can be. Admin schedules a 1v1 with child and admin to hear childs concerns. We do it, all further visits cancelled and status report sent to court. Admin explains to me that this isn't what casa is really for. Now we wait for the review date with the judge. I tried to keep this short and to the point, didn't really work
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Chris

May 15, 2016 at 7:51 pm

You did the right thing Justin. Seeing she has not made the effort it is likely the judge will revoke her parental rights. As long as you and she did what you were supposed to do it is up to the judge to remedy the issue. I pray the best for you and your daughter. As for the CASA I am a little confused if she is not qualified for such a visitation, why was she appointed and why is she licensed? It just shows further how deficient the judicial system is. It is sad. Sorry you had to experience the frustration.
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justin

May 15, 2016 at 8:12 pm

Thank you chris, i appreciate your feedback! As for the casa supervisor on the 1st visit, her is what she said to me "These are usually happy visits, im not qualified or trained to deal with unhappy visits, usually the children are much younger and happy to see both parents." This is an odd circumstance, a 15 year old that absolutely doesnt know her mother, its not like we seperated the other month or anything like that, ive raised my daughter since 6 months old, alone. Other things i would like to say. .... Do i think all ncp's are garbage? Absolutely not, some are probably better parents then the cp, and to those that are. ....i wish you nothing but the absolute best, god i hope it works out for you But to those that believe a parent has a right no matter what, i say, what the hell is wrong with you. Would you force YOUR 15 year old, highly intelligent, perfectly adjusted child, to sit in a room, with an absolute stranger, and make them interact just to make the stranger feel better about themselves? ?? Would you really? When the child, (who is 15) is ready, then so be it Other's say, "you force your child to go to school", actually. ......no i don't, she wants to go school, she wants to be educated, sometimes i tell her she can take a day off, but guess what, she doesn't "You force you're child to bath", wrong again, i wish i could force my child to not bath so much, she uses up all the hot water Laws regarding custody and visitation are very skewed, mostly pro mother, these things need to be taken on a case by case basis, there should be no standard protocol.
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Liz

May 17, 2016 at 1:30 pm

What I don't understand in these cases when a teenager doesn't want to visit the other parent, why is the burden of proof put on the custodial parent to prove that no intentional alienation has gone on? Why does the non custodial parent get away with making these false charges, and not have to take accountability for their own actions that caused the teenager to not like them? Why does the court system not want to acknowledge how damaging verbal and emotional abuse is to a teenager? Just as long as the parent isn't a drug addict, molester, physical abuser, this makes them a good parent? When court appointed counseling has taken place and the teenager is telling the parent that they don't trust them, that they caught them in lies, that they want them to take responsibility for their actions, then shouldn't the parent that is supposed to be the ADULT make the necessary adjustments and try to behave properly? When a court appointed counselor is willing to testify that she observed no alienation, but the court then still frowns upon the custodial parent because the teenager doesn't want to go. The court then says that the custodial parent is "empowering" the teenager. Put a smile on your face and tell the teenager "it will be fun". As if the teenager doesn't have their own feelings or a brain in their own head. (Btw, the teenager has always gone, but she is BEGGING not to) As parents, just as long as we don't kill, molest, or do drugs, all parents are considered equal. Shame on the system. Just as some parents alienate, other parents capatilize on the alienation defense when really they were just a horrible absent parent. It's detrimental to not have both parents in the childs lives is all I hear. Wait till they grow up, they will have problems. Well then, where are the case studies from teenagers who were forced to be with emotional manipulaters and who are now adults? How did this affect them? The court doesn't care. They expect the parents to figure it out. If they can't, then the court sticks it to the custodial parent that has raised the child, and favors the non custodial absent parent now playing the victim. Kids are smart. They can easily figure out when they are being used in a battle. Sadly, when the kid turns eighteen, she's ready to say F U to the parent that has played the games.
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Joe Kippington

May 17, 2016 at 6:49 pm

I've read the first few paragraphs, but here's the issue. His mother screams at him for no reason (he's recorded it on a few occasions). She left for a few years and came back, and asked if he wanted to live with her, he responded no and she threatened to "drive off a bridge." He's said that while one time she's only fed him a single salad the entire day he was there. She treats me, the parent with custody, like I'm a nanny. I'm sure there's several other things I forgot to mention, but it makes sense why my child genuinely doesn't want to visit with her.
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Missy

May 19, 2016 at 3:36 pm

Hi Greg, I have 3 daughters that I've been raising for the past 10 months alone because their father was in jail. The year before that was awful and my older two girls had to see a lot of behavior that they shouldn't have. Mental, emotional abuse, drug use, violence, etc...He pawned almost everything we owned. The girls' televisions, bikes, game systems, the washer and dryer.. it just goes on. None the less, He is out of jail now. I was granted temporary sole custody and he was given supervised visitations every other saturday for 8 hours. My oldest one was adamant about not going to see him. And The first visit she did not go. I didn't want to force the relationship. She's hurt, and angry and honestly I felt if i forced her to go, she would shut down and it would cause a screaming match. Her younger sister came home after the visitation with stories of how they went to the mall, out to lunch, got ice cream, and went shopping. He bought them bikes, clothes and shoes. But told my middle one that her older sister couldn't have her material things until she spent time with him. I can understand both sides of this. He bought those things for them because of his guilt from selling them due to his drug addiction. But I feel he bought them with the wrong intentions. And then used her sister to relay the message to make her jealous. But she's a kid. And bikes and shopping sound appealing to a kid. This weekend is the next visit. My oldest one has decided to go over there, and in my opinion, for the wrong reasons... Is this sending the wrong message? She didn't want to visit until she knew there were gifts. Should I require her to visit from now on since I know she's open to the relationship? I want to keep the manipulation to a minimum as much as I can. I don't want her to think she can call the shots but I want her comfortable. Thanks!
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CAL

May 19, 2016 at 10:02 pm

Missy- I see your concern, but I would look at this as a good learning opportunity for your child. Here are the 2 scenarios you are looking at. 1) If you don't allow her to go and she still hears stories from the other sibling getting things she is not or at least has that in her mind and wants to verify if it is true or not, at the end of the day she will have resentment towards you as she will feel you are in her way to either gain or at least find out the truth of the situation. 2) If you let her go and what he says is not true her resentment will be cast on him and you come out looking like a rose because he looses credibility. Be careful how the other parent is parenting the children, unless there is proof of abuse (physical especially). In the matter of micromanaging the other parent and their actions will be looked at by the child as you interfering with their decisions either now or later on down the road. There is a balance of boundaries then there is a balance of micromanaging. Be careful that your concentration is not on how the other parent is parenting and more on what your house rules are and how you can provide for them both material wise as well as life lessons as it will be your benefit in obtaining a healthy relationship with your children.
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Kay

May 20, 2016 at 8:04 am

@Lyn Sanso- You also need to be involved in the conversation relating to International travel. Especially, if your son does have a valid concern regarding parental kidnapping. Has his father made statements alluding to never returning your son if he does travel to Italy with him? Or was that an "off-the-cuff" remark by your son? If you are the custodial parent and have sole custody you have the right to refuse his father from traveling outside of the country with him. You need to get your son a passport so his father can't get one and that puts you in control. Is his father going on a scheduled business trip or recreational trip? If it is recreational then he can postpone until your son is an adult. If your son has a fear of flying and no interest in foreign travel then he should email his father so it is documented. No need to mention concerns regarding parental kidnapping. Although, that is a conversation you should have with your son, even for national travel and have a plan of action ready.
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InterestedStepfather

May 22, 2016 at 3:40 pm

Chris, My wife has a 16 yo girl and 15 yo boy who typically spend a summer month at my house 100 miles away from their custodial parents residence. This summer they are refusing to visit for the month because they will have "jobs." Typically my wife gets them two weekends every three months so this "can't come up for the month" is devastating as it means there will be no more long term visits likely for her lifetime. Any suggestions as to strategies to pursue? From reading this column and the responses it looks like litigation against the father has a low probability of success. Thanks!
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Christopher Andexler

May 22, 2016 at 11:10 pm

Interested Stepfather Hmmm....you bring up an interesting dilemma that requires a parent to step back for a minute and assess the bigger picture. It is hard to say why they are making this determination until you look at if there has been a long term resistance in both visitation and communication. Let's take the best case scenario and it is what they are saying it is that they have a job but you have good communication. In something like this it requires a parent to respect that they have a job but try to negotiate some time together. Maybe this would require you to take some time off towards the end of the summer and spend a week with them and around the 4th of July have them come for a long weekend (seeing Independence Day is on Monday) in lieu of the month long time. At least with this compromise you are showing them you respect what they want to do even when you don't get exactly what you want but at least you get some type of visitation. It is likely that the 15 yo is not old enough to have a job as most jobs are slim and would go to older teens first unless it is with a family friend or someone they know. Now if it is the worst case scenario where communication and visitation has been rough and they have been combative it is likely that it would have to go before a judge for them to figure out and let the kids know the rules of the game and what they can and cannot do. You must understand if things go down this road you may get what you want but there may be consequences where they would be combative and may make false allegations against you to try to stop all visitation as a whole. You will have to weigh out the best course and typically teens will make waves, regardless if there is a divorce or not, just to get their way and will pull out all stops. Good luck and I pray the best for you.
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Peter

May 25, 2016 at 3:16 pm

Seriously Chris, do you have children? The other so called parent is the adult, so is it God Given right to abuse the child. Children have the right to live without abuse, as so often the abuse leads to more emotional damage, physical harm and death. I think it time we stop giving you airtime as you are waste of good resource. You are the enabler who is encourage harm to the children of the world. The best advice you can receive is save the children as they will be adults one day, teach them to be respected so they can respect the people and world they live in
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Chris

May 25, 2016 at 5:27 pm

Hey Peter you have no clue what being a parent is all about, being falsely accused or having your kids snatched from you as your ex runs halfway across the country exploiting people, including your kids, then have her boyfriend contact you telling you that he has witnessed her physically abuse your kids as your kids tell you how she threatened them if they didn't accuse you of abuse and they would be homeless if they didn't all so she could exploit people to build her a brand new $300,000 house. Is that not abuse? But it is okay as I have heard your mind numbing dribble before and my shoulders are big enough to take your outlandish trash. I feel for the kids who are in this tug of war. It is ugly and they are the real victims. There is an understanding that parents on both sides need to see that dropping the drama and trying to be amicable on both sides is in a child's best interest. Yes it is far more difficult as children become teenagers as a typical teen fights for independence and in a divorce they must fight the battle on 2 fronts rather than in just one place with 2 parents on the same page. Do you not find it interesting the Greg started this blog not in support of allowing a custodial parent to influence or allow a child to make decisions on visitation rather on explaining that decision may be wrong and how to resolve the contention for a child's best interest? You have to understand job and who he represents. Sorry you don't like opposing views as it doesn't fit into your perfect box.
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Robert

June 7, 2016 at 6:05 pm

My ex has primary physical custody of my child (4 years old)-- we have gone through one year of visits (I have had to contact law enforcement two times due to their refusal to let me see my child). I live out of state and my child and ex are suppose to come here for three weeks. My child is to stay with me and my ex is to stay where-ever they choose. My ex is now refusing to bring our child to my state because they claim child said "I don't want to". Isn't 4 years old too young for a child to decide? I know that my ex has not done any prep to make this trip exciting (ex: talk about the state I live in, explain how exciting and fun it will be...etc). If they were to talk about the visit in a positive way then shouldn't the child be more excited? I would respect their decision if they were 10 and had visited with me before; all of our previous visits have been in hotels or at a family's home because I do not live in the same state, forcing me out of my comfort zone. I guess my main question is -- is 4 years old too young to determine whether they want to visit or not, and what is a strategy you would suggest to talk and discuss with my ex? I would like to explain the importance of working together to ensure our child feels comfortable visiting.
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Robert

June 7, 2016 at 6:09 pm

I worded my question wrong -- I know that 4 years old is too young to determine if they want to visit or not. They are new to the world and cannot even imagine what it all means. How do I speak to my ex about this situation. I do not want to take any more legal actions, but I am concerned I will have to.
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Michelle

June 8, 2016 at 3:33 am

I am a single mother from an extremely violent past relationship. The father has had no contact with my now 7 yr old son since he was 18 months old, when i finally got the courage to get my son and i out of the situation. Now the father is in family court requesting contact and it looks like he may get supervised access despite the documented history of violence and my son having 4 yrs of intense therapy because of it. By all accounts, SEC, Docs, etc, i am acting in the best interests of my child and not being a scornful ex. Yet supervised contact is looking like the likely outcome. I am terrified of my son having any contact with the father. In my view, supervised contact leads to unsupervised contact, and that is when the trouble starts. The father will be on his best behaviour untill he has unfettered acces to the child and then my son is in mortal danger. And unless i flee with my son or refuse to obey final access orders, which of course i can be charged with, there is nothing i can do to protect us. I agree the system fails parents that are decent and just want to see the kids, yet it also fails parents like me, who aren't being spiteful and just want to protect the child. Suffer the children under this system.
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Michelle

June 8, 2016 at 3:38 am

Sorry SEW, not sec.
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Danielle

June 14, 2016 at 9:27 am

My ex has not exercised his right to visitation in about a year. Now all of a sudden he wants to come visit and it is outside of the court ordered visitation schedule. Am I obligated to allow him visitation or do I have the right to say no? I did tell him it was ok for him to see our son but he needed to follow the court order. He chose not to follow the order and now wants him on another day. Help! I don't want to break any laws but I don't feel its fair for him to come out of no where and demand things of me, especially since he hasn't seen him in over a year and doesn't pay his support. What do I do?
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De Ann Carter

June 15, 2016 at 12:46 pm

I am a product of what happens when a judge and legal decide they know what's best for a child. Even after my mother said in open court she didn't want me, they sent me back to her. I ended up being abused and neglected until I turned 18. Yes, some parents use their children as leverage but not all. And so say that parents rights trump kids rights is not only selfish but inconsiderate.
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justin

June 17, 2016 at 3:33 pm

STATUS UPDATE : Therapeutic visits last year.....cancelled because the mother ended up back in prison, determination from councilor, "this is not healthy for and will not benefit the child" Judge ignored This year, supervised visits through casa ordered Took child to every visit, child refused to visit, last visit the mother didnt show up, result-casa cancelled visits Last month, review hearing, judge vacated the mothers motion because she didn't show up to court, but left it "open" for mother to take me back to court. This women has been gone for 15 years, why are we do concerned about making her happy? Child doesn't want to see her, mother been in amd out of prison, has had zero contact with child since birth, when is enough enough
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justin

June 18, 2016 at 9:39 am

You are obligated to follow the court appointed schedule, and so is he, nothing more, nothing less Whether or not he has paid any support has no bearing on visitation, and is a seperate issue in the eyes of the courts Best of luck to you
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William

July 6, 2016 at 8:22 pm

I'm a single father of three under 10. Twin boys 8 and a 10 yr old girl. My daughter refuses to see mother after mother sent terrible adult based text to her daughter. Mother does get when she supposed to ever and hasn't held a permanent residency or job for the duration of our separation, 5 years. She wants them when she has money or its convenient and it never for proper time. I as guardian am inconvenienced always and have to change all free time or schedule appointments when it her visitation time. I'm frustrated cause my little girl doesn't feel safe nor does mother have adequate sleeping for all three. I'm stressed and saddened and about to burst with stress all the time
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Angela Kirk

July 9, 2016 at 7:42 am

My two sons, ages 12 and 13, don't want to go back to their dad's for visitation. They tell me he makes the sleep on an air mattress in a shed outside of his travel trailer. He smokes weed in front of them and every day of their visitation, he tells them horrible lies about me. They are afraid to say anything to him out of fear that he will become angry and violent. After 17 yrs of mental and physical abuse from this man myself, i know the damage he's doing to them emotionally. In Florida, do they have the right to refuse to go?
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JL

July 9, 2016 at 5:13 pm

Angela- according to the buffoon who wrote the article they shouldn't have the say. William- I hear you as I have very nearly the identical situation. Sadly the family judicial system in this country is completed screwed up. My hope is to allow my son a year or two more of getting a taste of his mom's shenanigans and have him meet with a judge privately to let him decide who will maintain custody when I relocate. Good luck.
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Gregory Forman

July 10, 2016 at 7:53 pm

The Court of Appeals agrees with me that custodial parents can be held in contempt for failing to force the children to visit: Noojin v. Noojin.
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Concerned

July 12, 2016 at 12:45 am

JL - the "buffoon" article writer didn't decide at minimum 4 years into an admittedly physically and mentally abusive relationship to have not one, but two children. Then stay with the abuser for God knows how long subjecting the children to it, but now FINALLY knows the damage he is doing. Does that sound like someone qualified to impartially decide visitation? Fact of the matter is, courts can step in and halt visitation when abuse is evident, but sadly most of the time missed visitation is a vindictive parent using children as a weapon. William, keep your head up, keep diligent. I finally got my order modified so my daughter doesn't have to see the mother. Document all you can and make sure your children know it is ok to call the police immediately if they feel unsafe, even before calling you. An officer testifying goes well toward getting visitation modified, but the flip side is true as well, so make sure they aren't just trying to get out of visitation and there is actually an issue of safety. The courts require proof sure, but when you have it they will do their best to help you protect the children.
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Angela Jones

July 20, 2016 at 6:50 am

I family court system needs to be changed. I have been divorce for 5 years and have to go to court every year sometimes twice to protect me child. This last time we had two therapist say supervised visits and that he needed pychychologist eval. The judge back in chambers decided as long as the visits where in the county then the child was safe. He said it was a free county so he couldn't order a pych eval and I forgoed a month of child support to pay for counseling bc he was just going to order unsupervised. He didn't hear about how he got fired for abuse with children how he yells at her on the phone or when he had her last. The system is based on old mean fart judges or magstitrates with no care for the truth but for what they think they know. And then I can't even ask for medical because that wouldn't look right to the judge.. He actually told me I put my money where my mouth was when I said I would pay for he therapy. I have paid 25,000 in lawyer bills trying to protect my child. I never bad month him and as soon as he get the child he spends all his time mentally abusing her. It is ridiculous and cutout just like the rest of the government.. My rights for people who hurt people and the victims get to live with it and try and pick up the pieces.
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going throught the same BS

August 15, 2016 at 5:39 pm

WRONG!! Encouragement helps! just because you hate that other parent now does not mean you allow your kids to decide the same sentencing! you encourage children to want to spend time with their dad. I didn't for most of kids childhood...the day i started building up my x husband to our 3 kids...was the EXACT DAY THEY STARTED ENJOYING THEIR TIME WITH DAD. MOTHERS HAVE THE POWER OF ENCOURAGEMENT!
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Ted

August 18, 2016 at 8:17 pm

I'm calling bullshit on your calling bullshit. That's absurd. You're making a blanket statement that assumes the majority of situations are reconcilable. My ex-wife has been an on-again off-again alcoholic for ten years. My twins are 14. So, essentially, their entire lives have been spent being a caretaker and little guilt-laden worriers. She started her drinking career by downing half 750l of Vodka and quickly advanced to doubling down with Xanax and Klonpin. 10 years, 3 CA5150 mandatory holds, 3 stints in rehab, the near auto death of my daughter. 5150 #1: The first big "holy cow, is this happening to us?" happened when she killed a bottle vodka and chased it with a bottle of wine to wash down a few Xanax in a tub, just before she cut her wrists. My then 4 year olds, found her, screamed, I pulled her out of the tub--just in time. She'd been admitted. The doctor said she wasn't an alcoholic, just very depressed. Gave her some pills. Gave her the number of a pysch and on her way. Oh we worked together. We went to counseling. We had trial separation. We reunited and we went to church and recovery groups a LOT. 5150 #2: 8 years later and after a half dozen or so periods of sobriety she decided to pound some Absolut (from the bottle) and head to the store to grab some more. BAM! DUI. That was the wake up call. She lost her license. She lost her dignity. She was stripped bare. She had hit rock bottom. No way would she do it again, or maybe she would. 7 months later. License in hand. Seeing a counselor, AA religously--our kids had faith. Mommy was going to beat it this time. Until she didn't. She decided she was going to get hammered, pick up the kids and take them to her parent's house. She attempted to convince my then 12-year-old daughter to get in the car. Thank God my kid is smart. Passed out behind the wheel is how I found her. Drug her out of her car and into the house...only to realize that her car wasn't in park and she could have run my daughter over. I went to CPS. So did my kids' psychologist and apparently the police. After rehab they called in "inconclusive." But that was okay. Because she knew, this time was it. She needed to get straight. She needed to be there for her kids. And she knew it was serious because the doctors said, this time, if you ever drink again, you'll be dead. Her liver was shot, he said...well she said, he said that. So this time was for real. I mean, if CPS doesn't worry, should I? So as a father who believes that two good parents are better than one, I really urged my kids to see her in recover and healing. That they should "lovingly detach". And though ala-teen, they heard that they shouldn't be a doormat. They can not be a savior. 5150 #3: Just two years later. This time something seemed off. But you can just never tell, because everyone, especially the kids will believe anything they hear to convince themselves that mom is getting better. They will listen and believe that she has finally handed it over to a higher power. Until they come home, find her unconscious and not breathing. They call 911, they have nervous breakdowns as they watch their grandparents perform CPR on her while waiting for the paramedics. This time, she'd told the kids the the few nights leading up that she'd taken her Xanax on an empty stomach. That's all. 30 days in and 30 days out. I have taken full custody, but did it through stipulation. My attorney and I agreed that a stipulation and supervised visitation would be easiest for all vs. an ex parte court hearing. We're now 60 days from the last "episode", "event", "incident", "relapse"....convenient words to marginalize what actually happened. She attempted suicide AGAIN, with the full intention of having my children save her. Now, she's out. She's getting in touch with herself. She's working on herself. She's taking responsibility. She knows that she can never take another drink or even a pill. Her boyfriend of six months, with whom she's now living, has been a rock. He doesn't take her bullshit and is there with tough love. She knows that she can't do it on her own and that her only prayer in life is to have peace for our children. What she hasn't realized is that for the last 60 days, our children have had peace. My 14 year old stopped wetting herself. My autistic son came out of a shell. He actually completed a triathlon. They're getting along. They're dealing with their hurts and going to counseling on a regular basis. THEY ARE SLEEPING AT NIGHT! Yah, because they haven't actually slept a night in 10 years, because every night the go to sleep is a night that they can't be there to protect mom. CPS did their second visit today with her. I wonder if it's conclusive yet? Am I for her having the right to see them? Absolutely. If, of course, she's doing all of the things she said was doing the last three "relapses" But, my kids don't want to see her. They are thriving. They are choosing to break the cycle of alcohol and abandonment. They finally feel strong enough and empowered enough to make an informed deciscion. It's not like their 8. They are in high school. It's not like there haven't been a hundred chances to get it right. So, if you want to be the advocate for people like my ex-wife...please tell me who will be the advocate for my children. CPS? I guess we'll have to see. And, if my kids are forced to see her against their wills and their trust continues to be built up and destroyed....their confidence that parents can actually protect them is eliminated....or see a healthy relationship...their self-worth an guilt eat them up inside... so much so that when they're 28, with a child of their own and the gravitational pull to that bottle are so strong, they just can't resist. So, God forbid, if this horrific cycle repeats itself. Will you be there, to help them see their kids when they have an "incident". And how much will you charge them for your sage advice? And if the most unimaginable, but not beyond the realm for reality, thing happens they fall victim to the ultimate consequence of alcoholism, will you, Mr. Forman, pay for flowers for their grave. Justice is blind, sir and so are you.
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justin

August 18, 2016 at 8:56 pm

Dont fret ted, this dude obviously has no fckn clue what he's talking about, im a single father who has won every legal battle ive been presented with. Please see my previous posts to catch up on what I've been through. This Gregory foreman dude is completely fckn clueless and living in an old school way of thinking. Although court systems are still biased towards fathers not being able to raise children, sometimes it works out, people like mr foreman profit this and will continue to do so by taking you is not possible. FATHERS HAVE RIGHTS, IM LIVING PROOF
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justin

August 18, 2016 at 8:57 pm

Dont fret ted, this dude obviously has no fckn clue what he's talking about, im a single father who has won every legal battle ive been presented with. Please see my previous posts to catch up on what I've been through. This Gregory foreman dude is completely fckn clueless and living in an old school way of thinking. Although court systems are still biased towards fathers not being able to raise children, sometimes it works out, people like mr foreman profit this and will continue to do so by telling you is not possible. FATHERS HAVE RIGHTS, IM LIVING PROOF
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Collette

August 20, 2016 at 12:18 am

I got divorced 5 years ago and I had primary custody of my 4 kids. Dad left and for about 2 yrs had no contact with the kids. He only came back into the picture because he had to pay child support. During our marriage I was the one that took care of the kids while he was out having affairs. We didn't see him for weeks, months at a time. He just got custody almost 2 yrs ago. Reason he got custody is because he lied several times on the stand and I had a crappy attorney. If the kids don't want to come visit me he doesn't force them to. The police officers will not force the kids to come. I have a 16 yr old daughter that has been in & out of behavior hospitals since March of this year and each one happens to fall right before my weekend visitation. She went into one this past Sunday and dad did not tell me until Wednesday. He is refusing to add me to the list to where I can call her or talk to her. She was suppose to go to a day treatment program but was discharged because he came up with the excuse of he ran out of PTO (paid time off). My ex is a major control freak. Telling me what I can and can't do and can & can't say. He thinks everyone is wrong and he is right. He will lie to get what he wants. He has brainwashed my kids to hate me. My kids are 19, 18, 16, & 15 and none of them have no jobs and doesn't want to learn how to drive. All they want to do is watch tv and play video games and play on their phones. Dad does not believe in discipline or corporal punishment when they were little. I wish I could afford to take him back to court but I can't. I'm having to work 2 jobs just to survive because he is making me pay child support which he doesn't even need it. All he cares about is money. He is using the kids. He doesn't want them, never has.
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Mary

August 26, 2016 at 7:25 am

Growing up in a divorced family, I know parents can sway children from going with the other parent or hinder the relationship between parent and child. However, I don't think the issue should be a one size fits all issue. Children are people and just like a it take time to develope a relationship with with an adult, the samething applies for a child. I have three kids. 2 with my exhusband and 1 with my partner. I was upset when my ex got visitation! But that was due to the fact he never spent time with the kids and didn't want them till he was offered monitary value for them by his mother. He doesn't stay with the kids and only comes for them because the divorce decree says he has to come get them and I won't give them to anyone else. I do this because that 40 minute car ride is the only time they will see him before he ditches them with someone else. In cases like this I don't think the kids should be made to go. My kids are learning they can bought and sold, this is having a very negative effect on them, ecspecially my daughter.
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NN

August 26, 2016 at 1:44 pm

Does that apply if the children don't want to visit an alcoholic parent and a court order allows the children to choose to visit or not, but the alcoholic parent doesnt accept the court's decision of consent and constant calls the children trying to make them feel guilty . When the children dont answer their phones, he blames the mother and threatens to take her to court.
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Tisha

September 4, 2016 at 2:11 pm

My ex and I have been divorced since May 2010. He married his very young Adulteress with a few month of our divorce. Faithfully (with a smile and encouragement) I make my children go see their father. My Children are currently 12 & 15. Every single visit the 15 y/o asks me, "at what age can I stop going there. They are so mean to my Jack, I hate seeing it. I have learned play their little games and they leave me alone now, but they won't him" "Mom he never does anything right in their eyes and they yell at him all the time." As a mother this kills me. I have had them both in counseling, I don't know what to do or where to turn. I can't go against the court order, but I am very tired of this behavior. When I have said something to them, the behavior towards the 12 is worse, like they are trying to prove a point or something. Everything is emotional, they wouldn't dare hit either of them because he is a police office. But where can I turn, what can I do for them? I sincerely believe, because they treat the 12 badly, because he just like me. :(
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Christopher Andexler

September 4, 2016 at 5:08 pm

Tisha- I am a father which my ex-wife claimed that of my kids but the kids never said that to my face. That doesn't mean that they did not give me a hard time as they would tell me to my face or complain about everything I did or didn't do for them. I would take my kids out to eat, shop spend time with them and just be a father. She would then take them to a counselor who did not have the courage to talk to me after every visit to manipulate and scrutinize everything I would say or do and claim everything I did was bad and tell the kids this. Then the next visit would become more difficult than the last. The judge even picked up on this and had great issue with it bad mouthing my ex and the counselor yet never doing anything to resolve the problem or to remedy the relationship. Yesterday marked 3 years since I have seen or talked to my 4 kids. One of them are now in college, 2 in high school and the 4th in his last year of middle school. I am not a proponent of removing the rights of any parent unless there is someone is charged with criminal activity, but I do find that your kids, being teenagers (preteen) need appropriate help both in counsel as well as needing to be heard for their best development. This does not necessarily mean stopping visitation is the answer. Here is something that you will need to look at and may need professional help and even a conversation with the children's father is finding out the true story of what is going on. Currently you are getting one side, which their concerns may not be expressed to their father and may need to. In your case what may be profitable is to have a conversation with the ex, a counselor and the judge and let the judge know that there is some contention the kids have expressed, but removing the visitation may not be the answer. You may want to suggest that maybe a parental counseling needs to happen until the relationship becomes healthy again. He/she may move to have a more restricted visitation whether monitored or limited. Now here is one thing you will need to look at. Your kids are teenagers and they are going through a lot of transition and trying to adjust with a divorce and 2 homes on top of their own identity, who they are, what their interests are and simply the feeling of independence is hard enough but add in the instability of 2 separate homes and rules on top of that is beyond comprehension. The other thing to take into account is because they are giving just their side how much of what they are saying is true, how much is their perception of being true and how much is exaggerated. You will need to weigh that out and be a little open minded to the bigger picture and this is where a counselor will help you organize and weed that out. I hope this helps and best of luck!
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Christopher Andexler

September 4, 2016 at 5:28 pm

Mary So correct, visitation is not a one size fits all, yet I feel more well intention parents become victims as a result of selfish parents who don't want to be parents or because of an ex who is more bent on their personal revenge then they are doing the right thing on the behalf of the children. My feeling is both parents should have 50/50 access to their kids as well as full access to their medical and educational records and should be listed as contact should something happens to the child unless the parent has been convicted of a criminal act that would put the child in harms way and if it is sexual abuse it should be zero contact permanently. The biggest problem is the other parent has a tendency of using the kids to micromanage the other parent's parenting skills, rules and home boundaries and share that with the children in order to create a dependency on them and a distance on the other. It doesn't mean the other parent is wrong just the one causing the problems can see the bigger picture because the hatred is their disease. As in your case I feel for kids like yours who the parent wants really nothing to do with them but does so simply because they have to pay child support. This too is something that is completely out of hand with the judicial system and would need a solution and I don't know the cure all for that. There needs to be a baseline and that cannot start at zero and unfortunately is what most judges start at and try to work their way up. It needs to be looked at as both parents are fully qualified and work down from there. I commend you for seeing the bigger picture and doing what you need to do for the kids. Keep up the good work!
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Jen

September 7, 2016 at 5:51 pm

Sometimes there are valid reasons a child does not want to go visit the other parent. Yes we make our children do things all the time they don't want to do like chores and go to school but do you MAKE your kid sleep with light off if he Is scared and wants it on? Should you MAKE your child play a sport that he or she doesn't prefer? There are always circumstances not always known in each custody case.
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Lauren

September 15, 2016 at 9:03 pm

Oh,....wow. I am sick of being BLAMED for my daughter not wanting to visit her father. She is 13 and her "dad" was NEVER there for her. All he wanted to do was smoke dope and play video games. Yep, GROWN MAN....loved his weed and video games more than his kids. She is 13, she has a MIND OF HER OWN. She is a human being. Making her visit her "dad" is doing NOTHING but making her hate him even more. Whoever this genius is who wrote this is a complete moron. Actually, he sounds a lot like my ex. Reading this made my skin crawl. Sounds like a narcissistic, mysoginistic JERK.
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Lauren

September 15, 2016 at 9:09 pm

Bless your heart and the BEST of luck to you. This joker's article is an INSULT to you and many, many other GOOD parents.
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Debbie

September 16, 2016 at 1:48 pm

I was the custodial parent of my son for 13 years, I was the parent that did everything while his dad got to be a Disneyland dad, I never had my son skip any of his visits with his dad, he was giving 1 dinner visit a week and every other weekend, I used to let him see him whenever he wanted cause I thought I was doing the right thing, yeah not so much, I am now the non custodial parent, and I have not seen my son in 3 months, My son will not even speak to me now, I had to fire my lawyer as it was getting to expensive to pay for a lawyer and rent. My ex does not even make a effort to bring my son to his visits. I was giving half legal custody, I couldn't even tell you what my son did for the whole entire summer. I am literally at the end of my rope, and feel like just giving up.
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nicki

October 1, 2016 at 3:11 pm

My ex and I have split custody. He gets 3 hours on Wed and every other weekend. My daughter is now 13. She hates her time at her father's house! When she is at his house she stays in her room as much as possible. This week alone he told her she needed to start doing her homework at the dining room table instead of in her bedroom because it is disrespectful! He doesn't allow her any electronics at his home because it's disrespectful. He is now trying to prevent her from going to a sporting activity because she brought her tablet to his house because she uses it to help with her spanish homework. So what are we supposed to do? She is now talking about running away from his house on his weekends....
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Chris

October 1, 2016 at 6:58 pm

What you are mentioning is his style of parenting. Seeing you both are no longer together you can't get involved. It would be no different than him criticizing what you do under your own roof regarding your daughter. Allow him to have his own rules in his home. The hard thing is you may not be getting the full story as you are only getting her side. She may have done something wrong and has given consequences for her actions. Remember, children like to bend the rules and in a divorce/separation they will play both parents against each other to take the heat off them and get what they want where most of the time they don't have a clue of what they want other than consistency. My suggestion to you is this. Let her know the ground rules in your home and express to her that whatever rules you have are yours under your roof and what rules her father has are his rules. This is the teaching time to show her how important it is to respect the rules where she is regardless under your roof, her father's or a friend's house. It is important for her to understand that you both are there to be her parents and there are times she may agree with the rules and times she may not. You can also teach her the importance of negotiation if she doesn't agree with something but not in an argumentative way. I hope this helps.
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JoAnn Vegas

October 11, 2016 at 8:48 pm

This is ridiculous. My 3 children and I lived in an abusive home until their father was incarcerated. We were finally free and trying to get help so we could heal, stop the nightmares. We tried many different medications but it was a long slow process. The children were constantly reliving the abuse inside. The gun pulled out on us, hiding in the woods in the dark, hiding in the dark attic, locking doors to keep out the monster, their father, until he ripped all the doors off. After 18 months, their father was released and the children got worse. We were living in my family home yet both names were on the deed so he could come back and I couldn't stop him Thankfully he didn't but we were forced to see him or there would be no money. That's when the cutting got severe, even on the hips so I wouldn't know. My beautiful girls were hurting themselves to release the pain. Both girls wound up in a institution for a couple weeks but he insisted that they see him. He caused problems there and security was called. We moved without telling the court or their father and he found us. Calling the house at all hours, sometimes 10-12 times in a 15 minute time frame, leaving threatening messages, giving his girlfriend our number so she could harass the children. When the person that is supposed to protect you curses at you, throws things at you including a vacuum, breaks your windows, toys, doors, threatens your pets, hits you and your mom, deals drugs, etc. BUT the courts still say you have to see him even after 2 child line findings of abuse against the children. So how does this work? We were finally granted a 3 year PFA against him for stalking and two cases of abuse, yet in the best interests of the children, the master says he should have visitation. This will help the children as all children need both a mother and a father even if he abused them. That's our wonderful court system.
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Amber

October 17, 2016 at 8:54 pm

What if the child is 16 and wants to spent more time with the non costodial parent and when the child asks to switch weeknds or spend more time with the non costodial parent the costodial parent punishes them by taking their phone away and making them do more chores around the house then they already have to do?
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Chris

October 17, 2016 at 9:40 pm

What you do under your roof is between you and your son. What your ex does with your son under his roof is between the two of them. If either parent questions the parenting style or the boundaries they have understand their own roof. If you want to parent correctly you don't want to get involved. You will need to draw the boundaries with your son and if he is in trouble for something you MUST allow your ex to be a parent to his son otherwise you are damaging him by running screen while he needs to learn how to problem solve and communicate properly. You need to ask yourself what would you do if your son brought the problems he has with you and bring law them to his father to fix on his behalf because he thought you were being unfair? Getting involved will allow him to learn how to manipulate you and I promise it will backfire in a bad way. I hope this helps and I know it is tough but the truth is seeing you weren't there to understand the full story you will not have the ability to give a full unbiased opinion and that would be my out. 'I wasn't there and maybe you need to talk to your father how you feel.' Keep consistent on that and you will see your son grow.
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Try2C

November 4, 2016 at 10:35 pm

Well do I have a story. When I was younger I didn't like going to see my dad and refused to go. I told my mom and she told me to tell him myself. Of course I didnt want to it'd be mean, but one day he came to pick. My mom announced that he was here and I harshly said 'what does he want' not knowing he was by the door. (normally he just honks or whatever) I think he stopped looking for me by then. I didn't like going by my dad cause he constantly spoke ill of my mother and flooded me with his financial problems and mainly cause we had nothing in common. I'd just go there and sit around, there was no abuse just no interest in creating a relationship. Also My mother didn't say i could go by my father. She was pretty lax with the divorce, didn't drill when I came back from dads. Now when I tell her stories of when I was by dad I'm surprised she was unaware. Instead she just didn't want us to be tangled in the court affairs. She said it was something of a nerve wrecking place for children. In all your articles tone seems personal as though this is something you've dealt with, but as logical as your article may seem situations like these have issues that can't be handled with logic but with emotion and feeling which isn't as quite dependable. Most of the time parents divorce it come out of nowhere to the child, and now they are not able to to settle into the situation but be passed back and forth between homes that lack a consistency of rules. Why can't the child choose a parents lifestyle they choose to follow? P.s. (I'm quite curious why this matters to you. Do you just wish to win a case or whatnot? Also you can't compare a choice in a lifestyle to bourbon for breakfast.)
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Gregory Forman

November 5, 2016 at 5:52 am

Try2C, You make some good points and ask a good question when you ask why this matters to me. Parental alienation is not something I have personally experienced but it's something I encounter in my practice. Sometimes I represent a custodial parent who is alienating the child from the other parent: sometimes subtly; sometimes unsubtly; sometimes wittingly; sometimes unwittingly. Other times, I represent a parent who is a victim of such alienating behavior. In either situation, I try to get the behavior to stop. The first step in doing so is to get the child to speak to someone he or she can open up to. The goal is to understand why the rift has occurred. Sometimes it becomes immediately clear that the custodial parent has made the child believe that loyalty to that parent demands the child have no relationship with the other parent. In that circumstance one needs to break the custodial parent of that behavior and the threat of jail (or a change of custody) if the visitation doesn't commence immediately is the best remedy. Sometimes the child reports serious abuse (which can be mental, physical or emotional) by the non-custodial parent. In such circumstances, if the non-custodial won't forgo visitation while the counselor addresses these issues, the best remedy is to have the custodial parent file a visitation modification case and allow a family court judge to determine whether the custodial parent's behavior is sufficiently bad to justify stopping visitation and developing a plan for how visitation should resume. Finally, there are circumstances in which the child has minor but real complaints about the non-custodial parent's behavior. That appears to be the circumstance you describe. In these cases, I like to see visitation continue but non-custodial parent see the child's counselor (sometimes individually; sometimes with the child). The goal is to have the non-custodial parent understand how his or her behavior is undermining the relationship with the child. Typically, if the non-custodial parent addresses the child's issues, the child's relationship with the non-custodial parent should improve. If it doesn't, that's a sign that the custodial parent is discouraging the relationship and that needs to be addressed. In all but abuse situations (and, with treatment, even in some abuse cases) the goal is to allow the child to have a relationship with both parents. A child having a good relationship with both parents matters to me. It matters to most family law attorneys. It matters to all family law judges. One could be crushed by the weight of studies demonstrating that children do a lot better when they have good relationships with both parents. Almost everything a parent might wish for a child is highly correlated to that child having a good relationship with both parents. Socioeconomic status is highly correlated with good outcomes for children, but even that isn't as highly correlated as a child having a good relationship with both parents. As hard as it may be for the general public to believe, most folks who become attorneys do so because they want to help make the world better in some way. I practice family law with the goal of helping families in distress get out of distress. A child who has chosen not to have a relationship with both parents is a child in distress. I want to fix that.
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Mary

November 5, 2016 at 5:45 pm

Wow. This is completely stupid, and so are the child custody laws. Personally, believe it or not, I am for both parents having time with the child or children. IF and only IF both parents are proper parents. I have 11 year old twins (boy/girl). Neither one of them want anything to do with their dad and for very valid reasons. However, because I will not "Force" my kids to go with him, I am the bad parent....Are you kidding me!? Here's some facts for ya. My ex has verbally, physically, mentally and emotionally abused my children to the point that my 3 year old potty trained son began defecating in his pants, many times a day. The doctors say it's all in his head and that whenever what is going on at home stops, he will eventually stop. Problem is, thing going on at home was the abuse from the father, the neglect from the father, the fact that no matter how hard I tried to keep the father in their daily lives, he had other plans. There was never a real relationship formed between him and the kids due to him only spending a few weeks or months in the home before leaving again for another few weeks or months at a time, just to come back, completely disrupt the home again and turn around and leave, yet again! My son is now 11 years old and STILL has an issue, the only time it gets better is when he is away from the "problem", however, it has not completely stopped yet because he is still under constant stress when the car is vandalized, or he shows up for visitation the kids won't go on, or when I'm forced back into court and threatened for not letting him abuse my kids. It's completely out of control and I'm worried about the long term effects it's having on his insides, not to mention his self esteem. As a mother in an abusive relationship I had the burden of trying to figure out what I should do, how I should do it and when I should do it. Not only for my kids well being but for mine AND his as well. So, not only am I scrutinized for staying in an abusive relationship for so long but I'm scrutinized for getting my kids and I away from it also. Ever hear the phrase "can't win for losing"? I can understand that for a person that has never been the victim of abuse, has a hard time understanding why the victims do the things they do, or don't do, but, for a judge, a magistrate, or an attorney, weather they have been a victim or not, they have been around enough victims to be able to see when someone is truly a victim or just trying to play one. Every case is different, and should be treated that way. I am looking at jail time, a fine and possible loss of custody to this abusive father, because I will not "force" my children to "visit" him. Forcing a child into abuse is no different than if you abused them yourself. Will a judge tell me I have to take my kid outside and beat them over the head with a bat!? They might as well! I asked for supervised visitation, due to the abuse, the lack of a relationship, the fact that the father's brother is a sex offender, the fact that the father has admitted to being an alcoholic/drug abuser among other things. Before we even went to court, I once again tried to have an adult conversation with this man to come up with agreed visitation times, but all he wanted to do was fight with me because he didn't want the divorce, EVEN THOUGH he was already living with another woman less than 3 weeks after moving out the last time! Again, I'm the "bad" parent for even mentioning supervised visitation. It was overruled, and the standard order was issued. My children were terrified when they found out they had to leave with him, this woman and her 14 year old son, even more so to find out it was for days and weeks at a time. I complied as much as possible until they started coming home with scratches from the dog, bruises from the 14 year old beating up on them, unidentified rashes, blisters on my daughters feet from being forced to walk on hot pavement barefoot, more rashes that where blistered up and oozing yellow puss, extreme sunburn from being taken to a beach in 90 degree weather with no sunscreen (but the adults had sunscreen on), the badmouthing of me from the father, the lack of required or allowed hygiene while there, more bruises from an ATV with no helmets or protection, the taking of their phone and denied contact with me while there, deleting of all contacts from their phone (except his), deleting of all text messages sent to me or from me, and them being told that "the point of visitation is to get them away from me" and the only family they have ever known and loved. Not to mention the 11 tiers in a two year period that where cut and destroyed, break lines cut, ignition wires cut, a hole punched in the radiator tank, battery terminals loosened, and the list goes on! But, I'm the bad parent! None of these things or the proof has been allowed in the court, but his contempt complaints where. His word was taken and accepted when asked if he would refrain from drugs and alcohol while the kids are with him, even after my daughter called me to tell me they where on school property and "dad and girlfriend" where in the car smoking a "funny cigarette", I immediately called the police and once again, NOTHING was done or said about it. Everything I have said in court has been dismissed, overruled or completely twisted by the magistrate, to the point that I really feel like someone is paying her off or something. Things were mentioned in this last "decision" by her that was never allowed to be seen or discussed in the court. She didn't even see it, the attorney for the other party saw it. I showed it to her in a private room, just her and I after court was dismissed. Things that make you go HMM. I'm so over this. This is not about the children or what is in their best interest, It's about him continuing to have control, continuing to stalk, harass, vandalize and abuse and get away with it, at the expense of the kids I carried for nine months, that I raised and supported mostly by myself for 11 years and love with all my heart and soul, just so he can get his jollies off, and yes, it pisses me off to no return, that the magistrate is too dumb, blind or flat out careless to see that there really is a problem here and visitation with man is definitely NOT in their best interest. To the complete moron that has the nerve to compare forcing a child to go to school or brush their teeth to forcing them into a car to spend hours, days and weeks at a time with a completely unfit, inadequate parent is SO not even close to being the same thing. Would you Force a child who is being bullied at school on a regular basis to spend hours, days, and weeks at a time unsupervised with said bully!? Yeah, stupid question, I'm pretty positive that you would. Get a clue and a new job, in fact why don't you run away with crackhead magistrate on my case. You're clearly a match made in hell!
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Aline

November 5, 2016 at 9:43 pm

With all due respect you can't understand a situation I have been on both sides of the coin. I have been in an abusive relationship with an alcoholic that denied he was doing alcohol and drugs still with all the proof and a protective order the judge wanted to be done with the case asap and in the order gave 50/50 visitation. He has already violated the order on the first two visits first two chances I gave him he is full of revenge shows no interest in the children what so ever his ex-mistress now his wife supports him under the table and he lied of where he lives his address is fake, he told the judge he was working but would no reveal where because he was in security she let that slip because she wanted to end the case and screw me over. The judge threatened me not to appeal at the end of the case saying it would get much worst if I went up because they were not family oriented, to say the least my experienced lawyer in cases of family abuse said she went through hell as well and her ex simply didn't want to do the work and it has been 12 yrs that he stopped seeing his daughter she recommended I let him see them and show that I no longer have any feelings bad or good for him because abusers want that but so far it's been terrible he didn't care about my son's health problems and respiratory condition drove him very far away while my poor 2 year old was bent down and couldn't breath when I picked him up he could hardly catch his breath was really in bad shape and he denied it he didn't let me talk to my daughter and I know if I go to court they will still tell him that he can still see them. The court system and from everything I've heard is not protecting the children which should be the highest priority how do you let an abuser that is an alcoholic with a bad driving record and use of drugs take these children and drive them wherever he wants without telling the mother or letting the mother ask for supervised visitation! Just because he took a class and during that class he violated the protective order but the court said he did what the judge asked and now just because of that he can keep having me as his victim have full communication if he wants to as long as is in regards to the children. Well this is insane is like giving a criminal the keys to the victim's house or car again so he can crash us as a family. It is a horrible experience I find my loving family members and I crushed every day and in tears and having to put up with my ex's threats it is unjust and wicked! If this was the case where he had ever been a good father or shown interest in his children it would be different but he's even abandoned a daughter in his country of origin and the law here says they don't care about his past because it didn't happen in the U.S. his daughter was sexually abused and he didn't care completely stopped calling her or helping that's when I knew he would never give a F** about our children but the lawyer said I couldn't even say a word about his daughter back in his country because here that didn't matter! I agree with all parents that have suffered this in their own skin I've seen friends having to be the child that suffers and has to go see their abusive, drug addict or alcoholic parent and can't do anything about it but endure it! It has no logic if the other parent is toxic in the mother's life and it's been proven he is toxic for the children and the worst example for children why can't child custody laws understand that simple fact? This is completely insane! I would gladly let him stop paying child support as he has said in court he didn't want to support the children and they keep extracting it from his Work! He is only doing the visitation out of hate and wickedness towards me and my family and that is the reason why criminals keep killing because they are not stopped on time and the law is on their side in this country.
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Aline

November 5, 2016 at 9:47 pm

With all due respect you can't understand a situation I have been on both sides of the coin. I have been in an abusive relationship with an alcoholic that denied he was doing alcohol and drugs still with all the proof and a protective order the judge wanted to be done with the case asap and in the order gave 50/50 visitation. He has already violated the order on the first two visits first two chances I gave him he is full of revenge shows no interest in the children what so ever his ex-mistress now his wife supports him under the table and he lied of where he lives his address is fake, he told the judge he was working but would no reveal where because he was in security she let that slip because she wanted to end the case and screw me over. The judge threatened me not to appeal at the end of the case saying it would get much worst if I went up because they were not family oriented, to say the least my experienced lawyer in cases of family abuse said she went through hell as well and her ex simply didn't want to do the work and it has been 12 yrs that he stopped seeing his daughter she recommended I let him see them and show that I no longer have any feelings bad or good for him because abusers want that but so far it's been terrible he didn't care about my son's health problems and respiratory condition drove him very far away while my poor 2 year old was bent down and couldn't breath when I picked him up he could hardly catch his breath was really in bad shape and he denied it he didn't let me talk to my daughter and I know if I go to court they will still tell him that he can still see them. The court system and from everything I've heard is not protecting the children which should be the highest priority how do you let an abuser that is an alcoholic with a bad driving record and use of drugs take these children and drive them wherever he wants without telling the mother or letting the mother ask for supervised visitation! Just because he took a class and during that class he violated the protective order but the court said he did what the judge asked and now just because of that he can keep having me as his victim have full communication if he wants to as long as is in regards to the children. Well this is insane is like giving a criminal the keys to the victim's house or car again so he can crash us as a family. It is a horrible experience I find my loving family members and I crushed every day and in tears and having to put up with my ex's threats it is unjust and wicked! If this was the case where he had ever been a good father or shown interest in his children it would be different but he's even abandoned a daughter in his country of origin and the law here says they don't care about his past because it didn't happen in the U.S. his daughter was sexually abused and he didn't care completely stopped calling her or helping that's when I knew he would never give a F** about our children but the lawyer said I couldn't even say a word about his daughter back in his country because here that didn't matter! I agree with all parents that have suffered this in their own skin I've seen friends having to be the child that suffers and has to go see their abusive, drug addict or alcoholic parent and can't do anything about it but endure it! It has no logic if the other parent is toxic in the mother's life and it's been proven he is toxic for the children and the worst example for children why can't child custody laws understand that simple fact? This is completely insane! I would gladly let him stop paying child support as he has said in court he didn't want to support the children and they keep extracting it from his Work! He is only doing the visitation out of hate and wickedness towards me and my family and that is the reason why criminals keep killing because they are not stopped on time and the law is on their side in this country. Very sad! That it doesn't protect victims even when they have fairly demonstrated the harassment and evilness of the toxic ex! Visitations should be decided by the custodial parent and the child without being forced! The toxic parent should only be thankful to god if the child allows them to take a glimpse in their life but really toxic people should not be allowed anywhere near the most precious loving thing that a good respectful and caring parent has their children.
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Aline

November 5, 2016 at 10:00 pm

Mary I understand you and it makes me wonder if there is a way to start an organization or some sort of plead against this evil child custody laws that allow abusers to keep abusing it's victims and children. I feel like we should start a movement this is terrible!
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Nicki

November 6, 2016 at 10:33 am

Sadly I wish it was just her stretching the truth on the situation. He and I have spoken and he has told me he doesn't think that school should give her so much homework and it's disrespectful for her to do homework at his house on his time! This is a child that is making A's and B's in school working her butt off and taking an online class because she would like to get ahead (note she does not youch the online class at his house because he has no wifi). She understands every house has its rules but they have to make sense as well telling someone they can't do their homework because that means you're not spending enough time with your family is a complete BS rule. She has tried going the other way on things and inviting him to stuff like player parent meetings for volleyball to which he responds and asks if he required to go because he doesn't want to. Then proceeded to tell her how he wastes money to come watch her play sometimes so she should be happy about that. (Wish I was kidding, this was via text between the 2 of them) because yes while electronics are not allowed at his house you best believe he calls and texts her on her phone and then calls me flipping out about why she didn't respond to him immediately!
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Elizabeth

November 27, 2016 at 3:24 pm

My daughter is 15 years old and has never met or even seen her sperm donor. He got me pregnant Feb Of 2001 I found out right after we broke up. I did not want to get back together with him as he was toxic to my mental health. He moved on and became engaged to a much older woman with 3 kids. 1 Of those children he molested (she was 6) and another he abused so badly for bringing home a D in his report card that the boy (age 9) ended up in the hospital. Sperm donor adamantly stated that I don't know the entire story in regards to the 6 year old and that I didn't understand. I don't care and I don't want to know any more than court records have published. My daughter was born Nov 26 2001 and he was out in prison shortly after her birth (I had alerted the hospital staff to his possible presence and my fear of his showing up). He was released in December 2007 and started attempting to contact me to arrange joint custody. I was in a very strong long relationship for 2 years by then and the man had stepped up and moved and cared for my daughter as though she were his. In 2011 he started contacting me every few days staring that he was in the process of getting visitation and that I would be hearing from his attorney soon. Jump ahead another 5 years and after a year of hearing nothing (I never was served with court papers not was anything ever even attempted. I have contacts within our small legal system here in Sheboygan and Manitowoc, WI) he has contacted me again staring that he will have supervision in Sheboygan soon and I can look forward to hearing from him. He has never met her. He has never seen a picture of her. He has never held or or been a part of anything in her life. Is that my fault? YES. I was molested as a child and refuse to put my child at risk of it possibly happening to her song to wouldn't be allowed at those visits and have no way of ensuring her safety. In 2011 I explained her biological father to her and showed her the court records. In 2014 she asked to see them again to better understand them. She asked me what a few words meant and I pulled out Websters dictionary for her and showed her the definitions. She asked for clarification of a few things and I gave it to her. He is now calling me names and telling me I had no right to tell her what he did or why he was in prison. Was I supposed to lie? I can't do that. Am I supposed to Just shush her and tell her to not worry about it? No. She is an intelligent young woman and has the right to know why iI hadn't let her see him. She is now at the age where she can make an informed decision as to whether she wants to know that side of herself or not and I FULLY intend to support her choice no matter which way it goes. She understands that. Are you really going to tell me that the courts should be able to FORCE her to see him no matter her fears or concerns? I'm not okay with that decision. Tell me what you think should be done because I fully intend to do whatever it takes to make her feel safe and secure no matter what choice she makes. By the way, as of now, she doesn't want to see him or even speak to him.
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Rob

November 27, 2016 at 6:54 pm

Referring to the father of your child as "sperm donor" tells everyone, including your child, what you still think of him.
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Alan

December 1, 2016 at 2:25 pm

This is such a great post. There are lots of negative comments but those people have exes who are abusive, dangerous or stupid. That's not what Mr. Forman is saying. For a family with relatively normal parents, it has to be in the best interests of the kids to regularly visit with the other parent - even if they don't feel like going sometimes. I admit I wasn't the greatest father in the world . I was the sole breadwinner working 50 to 70 hours a week and didn't spend as much time with the kids as I should have. But I'm trying now. It's an uphill struggle but it would go a lot smoother if the ex-wife didn't allow the kids to choose (even if they're teenagers). But what choice do I have? Take legal action to force the wife to comply with the court order? I worry then that the kids will resent me more for doing so. Sigh.
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Try2C

December 2, 2016 at 11:46 am

I have another question out of pure curiosity. I've seen this question only once and a recent comment from Alan on December 1st made me want to ask. What if it is not the custodial parent that is refusing visitation, but the child. Lets say the child is a teen or preteen ,just an age of understanding, and they refuse to visit. Alan on December 1st stated he didn't want to push to the courts because his kids may resent him, and that is a factor. (Hypothetical question) So what do you do ? The custodial parent is ok with the visitation, and not discouraging the relationship, but the kids refuse and putting the custodial parent in contempt would ruin any good future with the non-custodial. I also understand you'd prescribe to have the non-custodial meet with the child's counselor, but in Alan's case he doesn't seem to be doing anything odd to keep away his kids. So can the kids be held in contempt? (I've overheard that some kids were sent to juvenile detention centers for refusing but how does that help?) As for the comment I left before thank you for responding very professionally. I'm happy you choose a career based of the need to help others. (although I can't relate I think I'm a bit apathetic.)
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Angela Jones

December 2, 2016 at 12:15 pm

I am curious to Try2see. I am in that very situation. I have been going to court in total for 7 years with my ex husband. Due to things that have happen between my child and her father she has refused to go with him this Christmas. I have asked him to go to counseling with her but he refuses and demands that she go with him for the holidays. She is tired of the drama and lies and when she tells him he just acts like he doesn't hear it or says I am putting her up to it, or now the therapist is. She doesn't want to see him because of he things he has done yet she has no choice but to go with him and get hurt again? When he has taken no responsibility for what he does or try and work with a therapist to build their relationship. She doesn't trust him, yet im suppose to just hand her over so he can hurt her again? I have some custody but I hate being put in this position because if you use it for the child well being and refuse visitation then depending on the views and mood of the judge then I can be in contempt. I don't want to keep her way from her father but I do think I should be able to protect my child from further harm... So do I have sole custody and can make all the decisions to do what is in the best interest of my child or is it yes you have to do everything but when I want to hurt her and manipulate her then u have to give her to me and if not I am going to have a stranger here the case in 5 minutes and manipulate them as well and tell them that I am not being giving my rights and that my exwife is alienating me and my child is a spoiled brat. I'm sorry but it isn't right. The kids have their own feelings and should have a right to say no or yes when someone they trust hurts them. We are raising them to be adults... So u can't think for yourself until your 18?? Come on.. They have to learn to make decisions for themselves and to trust their instincts and not be forced into something they know isn't right. If the patent is sore about maybe he/she should ask the child what they need from that parent so that she could trust him again. I know that's all mine is wanting right now from her dad and yet he will do the complete opposite bc he has the right to see her... And she has to talk to me on the phone. Kids are not possessions, they are a gift that we r not entitled too. I'm ranting and apologize.
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Katy

December 8, 2016 at 8:38 pm

So, when a "diseased parent" uses the kids as a "weapon," "pawn," or "controlling mechanism," is a "legal" druggie, has no respect for education, by allowing kids to skip school when they want, doesn't matter that they have failing grades, nor that the 18 year old still living at home brings drugs into the house with a toddler around? Allowed to play video games from the time they arrive home until ... whenever! The kids have no ambition to get their driver's license, get a job, do any chores around the house, cook, clean, blah, blah, blah. This parent should have 50% visitation privileges [PRIVILEGES]???
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Kimberly G

December 13, 2016 at 6:18 am

If visitation was black and white kids would be happier and lawyers would live like blue collar workers. My situation is complicated and I have been to court with my ex 4 times in 8 years. I have finally been awarded custodial and residential parent, but the kids fight me every time he shows up. I have 3 boys and they were 3, 6 and 10 when this started. At 11, 14 and 18 they finally have a voice because I loaded them up every time when they were younger...no matter what. Their dad, on the other hand, has cancelled for parties, friends, women, sports and everything else that was more fun. Now he has decided to get married and wants to look more like a dad. He is threatening contempt of court and I am convinced he is going to file. I let the boys stay home one weekend because he was taking them to a party and he ALWAYS drinks and drives. How do I prove they are put in scary situations without putting them in danger with him? They have offered to video tape him drinking and I say NO...you will get in trouble. My older son is 18 and hasn't spoken to him since his 17th birthday...when the court stopped controlling him. Is that healthy? No, but lawyers like you don't listen to the kids...this is about the dad having rights at the expense of innocent children. With some men, It is about control and not about spending time with the kids...sad, but true. My 5th grader's Christmas paper started with I BELIEVE and they had to write 10 things that define their personality. Three of the 10 were about his dad. I believe courts should not force me...I believe parents shouldn't drink and drive...I believe parents shouldn't abuse their children (he used to hit my older son, but never the young ones). They have not been hit, but they had to witness the abuse of my older son...confusing...Yes...healthy...NO. I was the product of a divorce so I understand the social events and friend time that you miss, but I also loved my dad. If they put you first, you will want to visit. It is time to listen to the kids.
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Lynn

December 16, 2016 at 1:19 am

If a child does not want to see a noncustodial parent, they shouldn't have to. End of story. Even preschoolers shouldn't be forced to see someone when they don't want to, or the other parent isn't interested. For every child who benefits from seeing a NCP, there are several who don't. Ask the kids; they will tell you the truth. Why do you think a huge percentage of those couples split up in the first place? It's because the NCP wasn't interested in the kids. (Notice that I deliberately made this post gender neutral.)
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Chris

December 20, 2016 at 3:38 pm

Ted, Your situation is one of horrible circumstances for the children and honestly, attempting suicide in the presence of children could be considered mental and emotional abuse. The problem with your situation is that alcoholism is considered to be a disease and therefore treated as such, by the court. I can tell you I understand because my daughter's father, who by the way wanted nothing to do with her until she was 7, is a raging alcoholic. 4 DWIs and a 16-month stint in prison wasn't enough to teach him. Fortunately, she understands that she should have no expectations from him because he's only loyal to himself and his alcoholism. The bright side is that she sees consequences of drinking and driving, like the night he ran the family van into someone's private lake and had no clue what happened, so she has turned away from that behavior and loves him at arm's length. Just don't think that if he was ever in trouble she wouldn't be there for him. Mistakes or not, I have raised her to be forgiving yet not to be used. You can be there for someone without bending over backward. I am hopeful your children will see it the same way. In no way do I believe the author of this article was suggesting that in a situation like yours, should the children be forced to stay with mom. Honestly, a simple ex parte can keep that from happening, at least until the full order goes to court. I also know this because my husband's ex-wife filed a complete bogus ex parte against my husband and he couldn't speak to or see his children for several months. They even missed Christmas. However, there are no consequences to filing a false ex parte. Not sure who the genius is that decided that should be law. In addition to that, there is such a thing as parental alienation, which is our situation. Mom constantly says derogatory things about dad to the kids, coaches them, manipulates them, buys their affection, discusses things she shouldn't with them such as court, refuses to abide by the joint legal custody order of the court. The youngest son has refused visitation for months, though the order specifically says both parents recognize the children do not have a choice whether to visit or not. She does not behave as a parent by having control over them, as she should. This also limits his control over them as a parent and thereby makes sure they are invariably, out of control. Teacher assaults, juvenile officer, kicked out of public school, suicide threats, suspensions for both already this year, in home intensive services though CPS, allowed to curse at dad over the phone at ages 11 and 12 and yet, they still live with her two hours away. Why you ask? Because unless the juvenile office or CPS decides to take them from her we would have to again, continue to pay child support, GAL fees, attorney fees, court costs, and we have already been doing so. So, when you ask the question "will CPS protect my children?" The answer is no. Not unless mom is making meth in the garage, an actual hotline reporting criteria question, or beating them senseless and a mandated reporter calls it in. Fortunately for you, your children haven't been turned against you in any way so you are only fighting your ex and her behavior instead of fighting her and your own children. So yes, there is a place for what the article author is describing. I imagine we all have different situations and it should be up to a competent judge to make the proper decision since attorneys do not have that power. The author is correct, that for the most part, these situations are due to a vengeful parent using the child as a pawn to hurt the other. I am simply horrified by the terrible personal comments some people are making about the author, just because it doesn't apply to your situation. By making those horrible remarks about a person simply documenting what he has been witness to begs the question, exactly how "good" of a parent are you if you can't see beyond your own circumstances? I am not trying to offend anyone, just provoking thought. Justin, he is not living in a "old school" way of thinking because for the most part, mothers have traditionally been given sole legal custody of children, meaning you probably wouldn't have had custody at all, if this was in fact, "old school." You are correct, fathers do have rights, but they are much more difficult to come by. I imagine you would agree with this, since you are have presented with several legal battles. Kudos to your attorney though because we all know, everything is a matter of perception. Truth has no bearing in our legal system as it stands now. Morality and law are two complete ends of the spectrum yet law was created based on morality. Prayers and continue to do the right thing.
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Kim

December 26, 2016 at 10:37 am

GF(this site) said: except in cases of abuse. Being that messed up is abuse. He,I assume,is referring to the multitude of times that a parent(often the mother) inflicts parental alienation on the child. I am witnessing this first hand and to watch my caring,thoughtful spouse go through it is hell. I am a caring teacher who raised her two sons as a single mom before I met my husband(and despite their father living with 8 different women during their 18+ years of raising made sure they still saw dad every week....still do AND he never missed a visit and often made their events-to his credit). I have let my spouse set rules,etc. and just backed him up,but still his 13 year old is barely coming(my spouse has 50/50 custody) even her 11 yr. old sister doesn't know why and she says "I don't know" when her father asks. Her mother is extremely manipulative and remarried. This lawyer is correct in his comments. 95% of cases one parent has other motives to "I can't make them go". Please people understand he is not referring to legitimate reasons.
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Michelle

January 2, 2017 at 9:45 pm

My mom made me see my dad when I didn't want too. It was a huge mistake, it made me resent my father more and have bitterness towards both of my parents. I was a teenager and my mom wanted me to have a bond with my dad. I didn't want to be around him because of his life style, he cheated on my mom several times and wasn't a very good father by talking bad about my mom. I didn't want to see my dad was a number of reason abuse not being one of them. I just didn't want to see him, he abandoned me for awhile and fought the child support my mom tired to get to help me get school supplies. And yes I know the whole story because I sat in the court room during the hearings until the judge kicked me out when he found out who I was. My dad is a head engineer for HP and could afford child support but preferred hi 18 year old girl friends over being a good father. Making me see my dad caused me to hate him to the point where I stopped talking to him all together, the best thing that ever happened to me was me walking away from my father by choice. After my mom stopped forcing me to see my dad I became a much happier person. Overall don't make a child see a parent they don't want to see, no matter how hard you try you can't force a parent child bond.
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Kim

January 3, 2017 at 8:30 am

Hi Michelle, I'm sorry your dad made the choices he did. My sons had to deal with the same issue with their dad,but faithfully went every week and now have a relationship with him that helps complete their world. I'm glad you have no regrets not seeing your dad,but quite a few kids are used by vengeful exs to hurt their parent and unwittingly go along. We all have to do things we don't want to and perhaps a shorter visit for those situations is better. You would be amazed at how many people turn their children against their parent.
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Kim

January 3, 2017 at 8:35 am

We have a situation.....like many according to several professionals I am familiar with and studies I have read....where the other parent is manipulating and trying to control this young teen. I feel bad for her,but will say after 2 expensive court battles with this parent,my spouse is done fighting. He is going to enjoy seeing his children when he can and we are going to pray for the best. This narcissistic borderline personality has done and is doing untold damage to her children,does not care,and will continue to do so. These are the people we are all talking about.
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Real parent Dadcares

January 3, 2017 at 10:07 pm

I read every single comment on here, and I'm not seeing anyone write something that I have learned/ or came to understand over my five years of petitioning for a divorce ! And that is what the hell does it matter how a parent feels about the other if no violence was ever reported then more likely than not there was never a victim of violence, and paired with that should be that if the violence did happen and was only mentioned after the request for a divorce then being the children's safety is supposed to be the number one concern of the court and more importantly the number one concern for a parent being children depend on their parents for them to protect them and guide them and more importantly I do believe even though I'm not qualified to say but will still say as a realist more likely than not would agree ! I highly without any doubt believe a parent that says horrible things about the other parent such as, " I am a victim of abuse by the other parent or the other parent verbally abused me or the children was always scared of the other parent or the other parent did drugs or drank alcohol , and let's not forget one thing here before I do get more real and call out the truest and most honest bull shit period and point blank !!! Two things should be considered with the laundry list just quoted that is USUALLY USED WHILE UNDER OATH WHICH MEANS IF A PERSON LIES THAT SHOULD BE CONTEMPT !!! AND BEFORE A SMART ASS POPS OFF ABOUT I DONT KNOW WHAT IM SAYING I SHOULD STATE I AM NOT A LAWYER BUT A LAWYER IS A LIAR NOT ALL BUT THEY ARE MANY THAT ARE BUT ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE SKILLED AND LOVE TO CONSTRUE AND CREATE BULL SHIT WITH SOME DISTORTED DEFINITIONS AND WORDS THAT MORELESS JUST CREATE A BUFFER TO PROTECT A BULL SHIT PIECE OF SHIT HUMAN THAT SHOULDNT EVEN BE A PARENT BEING THEY CANT SET A TRUE EXAMPLE AS A PARENT AND ONLY REALLY HAVE A CONCERN TO BENIFIT THEIR SELF BEING THEY PROBABLY ARE A PIECE OF SHIT AND MORE IMPORTANTLY DO TRULY LACK A PARENTAL SKILL TO MORE THAN LIKELY MAKE OUR COUNTRY INCREASE IN MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE DISHONEST DISRESPECTFUL AND HAVE A COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR ELDERS LAWS LAW ENFORCEMENT AND CAN CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT THEY DO OR HOW THEY TALK THEN WAY TO GO U.S.A. WE ARE ONLY GUARANTEED TO HAVE A MORE WORSE FUTURE THAN WHAT WE LIVE NOW NOT TO MENTION A WORSE JUSTICE SYSTEM !!!!!! Few Ok. To. Those. Two. Sayings. Or should. I. Say. True. Sayings ? Wow. I. Like that. It's probably getting to hot for all them fake pice of crap bull shifting parents/people reading this that are boiling over and ready to pop off with your bull shit about this post and give your Lori g ass excuses or criticism but that fine that why we are Americans right but not to lie bull shit and hurt or disturb other Americans peace !!! Anyways. I was saying those two true things are that. # 1. it takes one to know one and you can use any bull shit law library word to counter that but the truth is the truth and # 2. Is.... DRUM ROLL PLEASE. wouldn't it be correct ? for all people/court judge ect.... to simply say if a parent was a victim and never said or did anything about the abuse and only spoke of it once the divorce was served or attempted to be talked about by the person wanting the divorce then at that point the so called victim that essentially is pissed jealous and really can't Handel the fact they have just been told it's over !!! /they are being divorced for you constructive construing complicated piece of crap people reading and here's to !!!! Then why on gods earth would anyone especially a fact finder put a parent that has completely disregarded their own children's safety for how ever many years to a person that's not even considered the safety of their children until a divorce proceeding ???? Ok go ahead fire away but honestly evidence is evidence and without clear factual proof/evidence. !!!! Then frankly to be honest the person that is crying victim is a criminal and is abusing the process and shouldn't even really be a parent !!!! Ain't this the truth. ? Can't wait to read comments from educated liars and abusive bully's because this country is going to get more unless the fact finders start doing their job that they are bound to do by law. !!!!!! be real be a parent stop the B.S you cowards!!!!
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Lynn

January 3, 2017 at 11:06 pm

Dude, learn how to use punctuation.
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Try2see

January 4, 2017 at 7:06 am

I've read your comment and understand that you're stating parents should have equal visitation unless proof of actual wrong doing. I haven't read all the comment on this site as you have, but some do say that the NCP have done harm to the child in whatever way they listed and that is a fact you haven't expanded upon. I get what you mean liars are liars and they are wrong and should be put in contempt, but what if they're a good liar, there is threatening involved, or there's a corrupt judge what then. Anyways, that aside I asked a question before and I believe the site owner maybe too busy to answer could you answer my question?
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Lynn

January 4, 2017 at 3:47 pm

You were supporting your family by working so much. Now, if you spent your time off treating your wife like a 24/7 babysitter and hanging out with your buddies all the time, that's wrong, but sometimes parents HAVE to work long hours to take care of their children. The kids understand better than we think they do.
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Frustr8dnMissouri

January 6, 2017 at 2:36 pm

My husband is a good father. He pays his child support. He spends tike with his children when his ex wife allows him to, but that is rare. We've been married for almost 5 years. In that time, she has used many excuses to keep the kids away from him. She finally found an excuse that she really likes which is, "they don't want to come." In the last year, he has seen his children a total of 4 times for the oldest and 6 times for the youngest. The two times that the oldest didn't come with the youngest was because she went to a friend's house instead. His children (ages 14, & 11) both have cell phones provided by their mother. They both text their father. The oldest will text him and yell at him about all the terrible things her mother told her that he said (except he has never said any of those terrible things.) They generally don't text him when their mother is home. His oldest often texts me more than she texts him. Their mother doesn't want them to have anything to do with me (she became irate when she found out that they had been calling me mom at our house, that's when she started reducing the number of visits originally.) Now when she does allow him to see them, he has to drive farther to pick them up, is only allowed to have them for a few hours, and then has to drive that extra distance to drop them off. She will tease him with possible visits by asking if he has plans for a certain day or weekend and when she finds out what day or weekend it is, then she'll offer to let him have his kids that day or weekend, but they can't attend whatever his plans involved, so if he wants them he has to give up the plans (this isn't fair to any of our children or our families.) She uses this against him, not just in court but also with the children, telling them that their father doesn't want them or love them (when really it is just their mother manipulating situations.) She has told the children that when they are 12, they can decide if they want to visit their father or not, yet she's been using the excuse that they don't want to since well before the oldest ever turned 12. She has convinced the children that they have head lice and that they will continue to get head lice so long as they visit their father (the oldest has very bad dandruff, I've sent dandruff shampoos home with her a few times.) A few years ago the children did in fact pass head lice back and forth to each other during one season, but not since and she's still using this excuse. We honestly can't afford an attorney to take her to court to even try to have her found in contempt or to modify the custody arrangements. My husband is so beaten down and at the end of his rope over this that he has even considered signing over his rights as their father. When he mentioned this to his ex, she immediately told the children that he doesn't love them and that he was going to take them to court so that he would never have to see them again because he doesn't want anything to do with them. (Of course this is the farthest from the truth. But the children believe her, because WHY would their mother lie?) Meanwhile, my husband will not do or say anything that might upset his ex in any way because he's terrified that if he upsets her in the slightest way that she'll keep the kids from him, but guess what? She keeps them from him anyway. She has told him he isn't getting them anymore until "this" happens or "that" happens, but it doesn't matter if it happens or not she won't let him see the kids and all under the excuse "they don't want to." Nevermind that the last time they were visiting they told him (told all of us) that they keep asking their mom to let them come but that she says no. They said we want to come. They asked when their dad's next weekend is, we told them (happens to be this weekend) they said, we want to come. He text his ex at lunch today to ask if she's going to let him have the kids this weekend, she texts back that they don't want to come.
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Real parent Dadcares

January 6, 2017 at 4:08 pm

Frustr8inmusuri and try2see First to turn to see I am not qualified to say but sounds like if you look up " Verbal abuse " you will find what I think you are talking about and if those charrcteristics identify what your saying I think there is a law suit in such a case because if that is a pattern in the definition of verbal abuse that you recognize and the person dealing with it seeks a counselor that thinks you can be going through Post traumatic stress then I do think there is a tort in such an instance be careful verbal abusers are in my opinion a real whack job ! And frust8inmisuri isn't it odd that someone would separate the kids you say one child visited 4xs and the other 6. That is not in the best interest of the children to separate them, I think all fam courts are under the same rules as far as that goes ! Hang in there goes to show us how our system is a disgrace
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real parent dad

January 7, 2017 at 7:51 pm

hello thank you for being honest and seeing something for what is trying to be said, rather than criticizing it on typos and me not using punctuations correctly, luckily we are Americans or I might be jailed or crucified lol, anyways I'm sure if you are self representing you are tired of hearing this but if you are just trying to hang in there and finding asking for help/info/ideas/or at least maintain your loving relationship with your child/children, I have to tell you I am not a lawyer, OK that's over I might know of something/information that assuming it is what your looking for or saying, I want to point out that what I am saying is our system has failed us in most cases and the truth is the truth NO court is to rule under some distorted attempt to create a favorable situation and that is what's happening some fallacies have only opened the door for more and with that said hang in there and sue the entire court and your spouse as you can do are entitled to do but is or can be expensive to do but there is a fact that anyone facing these dirt bags that lie should continue to do don't forget " IT'S A CRIME TO LIE UNDER OATH AND IT IS ABUSE TO USE A FALSE RESTRAINING ORDER AND ATTEMPT TO HAVE THE RESTRAINED PERSON ARRESTED OVER AND OVER " and that is the bottom line these people crack me up fear is something your scared of and if your scared of someone so bad that you fear your life are you going to save your children if their life was on the line ? chances are they wont this crap cracks me up. but it's really not that funny !!!! to bad some don't love the way they hate and abuse then there would be less divorces well maybe JUST maybe!!!
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1st Year Law Student

January 25, 2017 at 12:12 am

From my own personal experience, fathers have to jump through hoops to get courts to consider them as a viable alternative to a mother. I have spent 10 years working in education and have taught thousands of students. My daughter has been abused by her mother for years and there was even an attempted kidnapping. DHHS refused to intervene because I was acting in a protective role, but stated that if I was to allow visitation between our daughter and her mother knowing that she has been abused and will likely be abused again, they would open a case for failure to protect on me. They won't pursue her mother for abuse, but just come after me. DHHS fails to adhere to the Child Abuse Protection and Treatment Act. My daughter has testified twice against her mother. First time she was allowed to testify was for a Protection Order. It was ultimately granted for one year but required a reunification plan to include therapy with her mother's therapist. Not an independent therapist... but the therapist of the perpetrator. During a visit, my daughter was pushed into a wall by her mother's friend and received a bloody lip. This was during the active protection order which allowed Saturday visits. Upon testifying again, my daughter told the judge she was completely finished with her mother. She couldn't handle it and was fearful of abuse again. Just denied the contempt and renew of the Protection Order. First day my daughter was required to go to her mother's after the protection order expired, she ran away from home. The police called me to come pick her up. My daughter has resided with me for a year and a half now. She is almost 11, yet I am still required to work on reunification even though my daughter is adamant about no longer having contact with her mother. Children are routinely treated like chattel by courts. Imagine a court ordering a woman who was physically abused by her boyfriend/husband to rekindle their relationship. This is essentially what many courts are doing. From a mental health perspective, many therapists suggest that a child that has been abused by a parent will be further harmed by engaging in therapy with the abusive parent. They also suggest that reunification should be at the discretion of the child in many situations, especially when the parent show no remorse for their actions. A child cannot heal without validation and a sincere promise that the abuse will not continue. For many children, the healing process doesn't begin until they are 18 and can make their own legal decisions. I have seen just about every dirty trick parents pull in court in order to get custody. I am a first year law school student because I have learned first hand that proceeding pro-se is a bad idea. Courts won't take you seriously. Fathers need to educate themselves and fight back.
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darrin

January 30, 2017 at 3:16 pm

I have the same problem. Looking for help and a solution
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darrin

January 30, 2017 at 4:01 pm

I am in kentucky and my exwife refuses to let my son visit since he has turned 18. She says it is his choice now that he is an adult and he does not want to come. I have never heard this from him and I have no way to contact him now because she blocked me from his phone. I still pay child support because he is in school and do not mind that I just want to see him and see how he feels.
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1st Year Law Student

January 30, 2017 at 4:06 pm

Darrin, Is your son still in high school or college? Is there a visitation order? Even though my ex wife has abused our daughter, she still has rights to access her school records.
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darrin

January 30, 2017 at 4:20 pm

Yes he is still in high school. We have a visitation order but she says that she is not bound to that since he is eighteen. Also, the last time he spent the weekend with me before his birthday we were planning him a birthday party the following weekend. We had no problems at all. He has always looked forward to being with me. I do have access to the school and his records. His mother is very controlling and has been trying to alienate him against me for a couple of years. I am not afraid of any physical abuse but I am very concerned with what he is being told when it comes to why he is not seeing me because I know it is not his choice.
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Angela jones

January 30, 2017 at 4:50 pm

Darrin are u kidding me? He is 18 if u really wanted to visit u would find a way. Get him his own phone.... This is a bunch of excuses... This is what is the problem!!?! Oh whose me my ex is controlling and won't let me... In the meantime they are living there lives make a freakin effort instead of excuses. This is exactly why u don't see him, excuse, blame, excuse blame. Give me a freakin break! Call a spade a spade and find sympathy in another place instead of using your kid to get it!
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Jenny Moses

January 30, 2017 at 5:21 pm

Angela, you would be the alienating mother...get a grip. Darrin I feel your pain. It is awful. Go to the school and see him without letting her know.
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1st Year Law Student

January 30, 2017 at 5:44 pm

Angela, While your comments have a shred of validity to them, who are you to judge this guy? It sounds like the boy's mother is very vindictive and now that the child is 18, she is happy to continue alienating the child outside the confines of a custody order. Unless there is evidence of abuse by Darrin towards his son, interfering with their relationship is nothing more than revenge. It's hateful, irresponsible, and it signifies that more than likely she was alienating and abusing the son for many years. It sounds as if the mother is actively preventing phone calls to go through to the son. Yes, there are other ways for Darrin to get in contact with his son. You blame Darrin but the mother is beyond criticism? You contribute to the abuse and alienation of his son by your ignorant comments. If I was in Darrin's shoes, I would write a certified letter addressed to the son. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1703 If the mother prevents the son from receiving it, it would appear that it's a federal offense. But I don't know his specific situation nor can I provide legal advice. However, a parent who is alienate without credible evidence of abuse, in my opinion should lose their custodial rights.
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Angela jones

January 30, 2017 at 6:00 pm

I have every right to judge! He put it out there. This women he said is doing things but there are two sides to every story. The boy is 18 is she holding him locked up in his room- no! With today's technology u want to tell me he can't talk to his son.. Come on. I am judging because I find it all to common for the noncustodial parent to blame everyone especially the custodial parent who is RAISING the child by herself. And instead of him calling her names and saying poor me maybe just maybe he could ask her how he could help and actually listen to the mom and the child instead of just thinking about himself and his feelings. 1st year law student you are absolutely wrong about the letter it would be impossible to prove... Freaking stay in school and quit giving advise when u yourself out judging the mother, me, the kid.. Freakin hypocrite!
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Angela jones

January 30, 2017 at 6:04 pm

I am by far an alienating mother. You have no idea who and what I have done to primote a relationship with my child and their father. He needs to get off his lazy, excuse ridden butt and ask the kid and mom what would be necessary to have a relationship and freakin LISTEN!!
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1st Year Law Student

January 30, 2017 at 6:13 pm

Just out of curiosity, are you in anger management therapy?
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Angela jones

January 30, 2017 at 6:29 pm

Actually I found your comment hilarious! No but I am tired of people excuses.
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1st Year Law Student

January 30, 2017 at 6:38 pm

How long were you married to Darrin, if you don't mind me asking?
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Angela jones

January 30, 2017 at 7:08 pm

A Darian type for 10 years. He was suppose to visit my daughter this weekend and cancelled because she didn't want to spend overnights with him. He didn't get what he wanted so he just didn't come. Didn't tell her or me he wasn't. I'm the one that has to explain why her father didn't show up. I have made more excuses for him then I care to remember just so she doesn't see her father as bad. Darian should drive to the school or outside the house whatever and wait and see his kid period. I would never alienate my daughter from him but I don't believe most of these noncustodial parents when they say the other parent is mean and controlling. Just because they don't get what they want from a relationship they created with words and actions doesn't make the custodial parent controlling. It means they are trying to protect their child from someone who is continuously making promises and then breaking them. The custodian parents have to put all the pieces back together, I don't have time to be controlling, mean most custodial parents don't.
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1st Year Law Student

January 30, 2017 at 7:25 pm

Angela, 1. Unless there is abuse, a 10 year old can't make those decisions to sleepover or not sleepover. You can't contribute to that decision either. 2. The fact that you said that "I'm the one that has to explain why her father didn't show up" makes me question your motives. It should be the father that explains to her, not you. This also indicates to me that you have had some extensive input in how your daughter views her father. 3. "I have made more excuses for him then I care to remember just so she doesn’t see her father as bad." I doubt this. The fact that you are making excuses.... aka lying to your daughter means you are willing to lie to anyone about your situation. It is much better that you tell your daughter you don't know why specifically, and ask her to ask her father the next time she sees him. 4. Trying to protect the child from your interpretation of what will harm the child is different from the child actually experiencing harm. You could potentially be adding to that harm and their relationship even if it was not intentional. Custodial interference covers quite a bit of things. You chose to have a child with this man, you should be choosing to facilitate a relationship..... unless there is physical or emotional abuse or severe neglect.
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Angela jones

January 30, 2017 at 7:48 pm

Ok mister law student. 1. Because of my ex forgetting her in two different places (crackle barrel and mettle beach theatre) and because he says one thing and does another the JUDGE has in the custody order that my daughter gets to decide if she wants to come home or not. Yep MY 10 year old. 2. It would be great for her father to explain that to her if he would do it. Which he never has except to blame anyone else but himself for it. 3. It not really excuses I make for him it's more giving her hope that one day her father will do what he says he will do. You call it what u like. 4. Emotional abuse is just is bad as physical abuse. It last way into adulthood. 5. You don't really want to learn from this u just want your own sympathy in whatever your issue is. 6. I pray that when you do finish law school, something I would luv to do but I have made the decision that spending quality time with my daughter is more important then getting another degree. 7. Good luck in law school hopefully you will learn that there are two sides and that you don't know everything-no one does. You are wrong about me. I don't alienate anyone, I'm just the parent she counts in and is always there with no excuses.
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Lynn

January 30, 2017 at 9:29 pm

Why can't your son call you? Is he on social media? Does he drive? I think there's more to the story that you aren't telling us, or may not know yourself.
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Mom2ThreeBoys

January 31, 2017 at 8:35 am

What constitutes abuse? Emotional, physical or verbal are very subjective. My 11 year old has severe anxiety so verbal abuse is enough to cause him to be afraid. His anxiety stems from my ex, his dad, physically abusing my older son while the other 2 watched. He had never hit my younger children until recently...explain that level of crazy. My older son just turned 18 and has cut off all communication. For the first time last weekend, my ex hit the 11 year old. Everyday my son talks about the hitting and how he doesnt want to go next weekend. He is afraid he will get hit again because he told me about the hit. Of course, my ex denied EVERYTHING. Do I force him to go???
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Angela jones

January 31, 2017 at 10:52 am

Mom2threeboys, I am so sorry for u and your kids. I would absolutely not let the kids go. I would get them in to see a therapist or better yet psychologist that is willing to testify in court. So many of these abusers just say it is different parenting styles. Complete Bull! If the children are scared or have anxiety there is a reason. I want my child to grow up and be independent and think for herself. So many adults treat their kids as objects "the seen but not heard" way of raising a child is just a way for old minded men and women to play controll games with their children this causes the kids to make poor choices when they become adults because they have never had to think for themselves. My prayer are with you.
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1st Year Law Student

January 31, 2017 at 11:24 am

Angela, I agree with everything after your first two sentences. The psych, the different parenting styles argument, the seen but not heard argument, and even the argument that it is just conflict between the parents, not the abuse. However, I am not sure what the mom means by "hitting." A closed fist punch to the face, or an open hand spanking. It makes a difference. Parents have a right to discipline within reason. You may not find it reasonable, but the majority of people may.
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Mom2threeboys

January 31, 2017 at 11:56 am

Angela, Thank you for your support. I am absolutely getting a therapist involved in my case so I do not have to be the only one speaking in court. I had a psychologist meeting with my older son when the hitting started and he confirmed that this was not a gray area and it was child abuse. Unfortunately, our GAL took away some visitation, but not all. It has been about 2 years since he hit any of the boys and last weekend was the first incident so my kids are reliving the abuse of their brother. Closed or open makes no difference at all @1styearstudent. It is intent to discipline or intent to harm out of anger. Do your research on child abuse before you question anyone's motive on this site. If you have an 11 year old boy and you have not been a full time parent since he was 2, is not the right time to start corporal punishment? My son said his dad was "raging" and seemed out of control. Hurt, not hurt, mark, no mark, closed hand, open hand...it doesn't matter. It is scary for a child and very hard to understand.
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1st Year Law Student

January 31, 2017 at 12:09 pm

@mom2threeboys My degree is in sociology with a specialization in families. I've worked with children for 10 years. In many states, open v. closed hand, whether it left bruising, and the location of the hitting is all relevant for determining abuse or not abuse. Feel free to check with DHHS records of how physical abuse is defined in your state. A doctor or psychologist can testify that it is abuse from his/her perspective but that is just an opinion which needs to be weighted against the laws of parental discipline in your area.
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Angela jones

January 31, 2017 at 12:18 pm

Omg 1st year law student! Are you kidding me! I swear I should go law school if this is the garage u are learning, just so the court system has some chance to protect our kids! No one should be spanking a child across the face. What about you, sounds like your the one that needs anger management if that is how you disclipine. Your suppose to teach them how to be adults- what kind of adult is that teaching them to be? You think being s bully and hurting a child is the only way to disclipine? There are so many ways to show your child the right way of doing things. Controlling, hitting, that is exactly what I am talking about. It isn't a different way to parent it is child abuse mental and physical. I think u should go to school to learn how to discipline your child instead of law school. So far I am not impressed by your first year studies. Please say u will not be a family court lawyer....please, please.
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Angela jones

January 31, 2017 at 12:24 pm

Mom2threeboys Please do not listen to 1st yr, he is all rules and no experience or empathy for that matter. I have fought for my child for 6 years in the court system. I have sole custody and bc of his behavior my daughter can decide when she wants to come home. She has a phone watch and just calls me when he is acting crazy. It's the gizmo pal u can get on eBay for $60 and there is no contract just $20 a month. The court ordered that she has to wear it at all times and I can even spot check on them. It has been hard road to get to this point but I am not going to let someone hurt her, period.
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1st Year Law Student

January 31, 2017 at 12:38 pm

@mom2threeboys 1. May I recommend mental health counseling for you? I believe you may need it. 2. Thank you for explaining that you child was hit across the face. At no point did you mention the location of the hitting before now. Yes, DHHS would consider that abuse. That is why I asked about the open or closed hand, location, and whether it left a bruise or not. This is not from a legal perspective but a DHHS child abuse perspective. 3. Your assumption that this is how I discipline my own child crossed the line. It is spiteful, ignorant, and defamatory. This tells me a lot about your personality, how you treat your ex husband and also indicative of parental alienation on your parent. Hope you find a good lawyer.
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Mom2threeboys

January 31, 2017 at 1:19 pm

I would say chances are good that mine has crossed the line and I do not need a law degree to come to that conclusion. Good luck with your studies. Emotional Abuse Almost all States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands include emotional maltreatment as part of their definitions of abuse or neglect. Typical language used in these definitions is “injury to the psychological capacity or emotional stability of the child as evidenced by an observable or substantial change in behavior, emotional response, or cognition” and injury as evidenced by “anxiety, depression, withdrawal, or aggressive behavior.”
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1st Year Law Student

January 31, 2017 at 1:43 pm

I was wondering if you are aware that child abuse and neglect statistics show that biological mothers are 8 times more likely to abuse their child than biological fathers. Let that sink in for a moment. False allegations of abuse are also more likely by a mother than a father, with domestic violence agencies coaching both the mother and the child in order to facilitate the deprivation of rights from the father. It's a money game. It's sick and perverted.
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Mom2threeboys

January 31, 2017 at 1:50 pm

Reread the statement above @1st Year Law Student. I never said any of those things. You may want to back up your truck and apologize. Better yet, don't you have some work to do?
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Kim

January 31, 2017 at 1:54 pm

This is the problem. Studies have shown narcissists only need 50% custody to alienate their children from the other parent. They do anything to control their kids and punish the other parent who has the gall to be happy. I am so sorry for you both. It is so hard for me,who has so many memories with my boys(who are men now,actually :)) and to know the girls will never get this time back with their dad. I will never understand this because as much as it hurts those of us alienated,it is devastating for these kids.
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1st Year Law Student

January 31, 2017 at 2:24 pm

Apologize for what?
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Mom2threeboys

January 31, 2017 at 2:46 pm

I DID NOT SAY ANY OF THIS... @mom2threeboys 1. May I recommend mental health counseling for you? I believe you may need it. 2. Thank you for explaining that you child was hit across the face. At no point did you mention the location of the hitting before now. Yes, DHHS would consider that abuse. That is why I asked about the open or closed hand, location, and whether it left a bruise or not. This is not from a legal perspective but a DHHS child abuse perspective. 3. Your assumption that this is how I discipline my own child crossed the line. It is spiteful, ignorant, and defamatory. This tells me a lot about your personality, how you treat your ex husband and also indicative of parental alienation on your parent. Hope you find a good lawyer.
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1st Year Law Student

January 31, 2017 at 2:55 pm

Then I apologize. I was not aware it was Angela who said it.
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Lynn

January 31, 2017 at 4:40 pm

I thought a person could get in almost as much trouble for knowingly making false abuse reports as a person can for committing abuse.
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james terzakos

February 2, 2017 at 11:03 am

i have not seen my child since fall of 2014 when my ex refused to bring to visits or family therapy she tried to get a neglect case against me for smoking it lasted years but she lost after losing and visits were to start again she refused now saying my son didnt want to see me the court orderd phorensics for all of us and said it was parent alienation ,along with his mother being diagnosed with multiple personality dissorder and programming my son the dr testified at trial as well as the visiting coach who both said the child loves his father and has no fear of him but has been programmed very good by his mother the trial is over just was wondering what you think will happen im hoping i will get the full custody
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Jane

March 18, 2017 at 9:25 pm

So physically forcing a child to do something that they find mentally or physically harmful is in their best interest? I used to beg not to have to see my dad (and especially his parents and family). Before my parents got divorced, my mom did all the child care with the help of her mother (who my dad HATED) and all the cleaning with the help of a housekeeper (who my dad constantly complained was too expensive) while working to make twice as much money. We had a massive three level, four bedroom house for a family of three, which my mom struggled to afford while my dad refused to move. After the divorce, EVERY time I saw him, he would talk bad about my mom, her mother, and her sister (my godmother). He also made fun of my uncle (a unionized oil refinery worker elected to a local town council as a democrat) whenever republicans ever had a win. He and his relatives ganged up on me with their right-wing (and extremely sexist and racist) views whenever I went over there so I wouldn't end up "like the other side of the family." And he made a huge production of trying to make me carry messages to my maternal relatives that he still liked and following them on Facebook. I developed a serious nervous system condition in my early teens. He refused to acknowledge it or ever ask me how I felt. When my symptoms prevented me from going out, I had to lie and say I caught a cold because that wasn't good enough for him. He didn't believe my illness was real until a coworker said his daughters also have it. I went to a Catholic high school before enrolling with an online academy junior year. What became EVERY time I saw him, my dad kept pressing me to go to the local public school (that he graduated from) for senior year, acting like this was already decided and never asking me what I wanted. It was massive and there's no way I could have gotten around without a wheelchair, and I'd probably have gotten my college applications thrown out, going to 3 schools in 4 years. He moved in with his parents after my parents got divorced when I was 13 and didn't move out almost until I left for college. There wasn't room for another bed there, so they made sleep in my dad's room rather than on their very comfortable couch like I wanted. My dad slept just in his underwear and refused to change the sheets, and he constantly complained about how uncomfortable the air mattress was. He absolutely threw a fit when I didn't want to sleep there anymore. You get the picture. Now that I'm older, my mom has told me the only reason she didn't divorce him sooner was that she couldn't trust him to be alone with me when I was younger. Being forced to put up with that is just like being made to eat vegetables? Yeah right. Might I offer an alternative analogy? Imagine if today I said my boyfriend expected me to sit back and listen while he trash-talked the women who raised me, used his family to gang up on me about politics and every bad thing any democrat has ever done because of one pro-union relative, used my illness for sympathy from other people while never doing anything to help me with my illness or even asking me how I am, etc, etc. *Most* would tell me to never see him again, rightfully so. My dad and his dad would probably launch into rant about how stupid irresponsible I am, how it's all my fault, and how women just sit and complain about men they take no action against.
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Lynn

March 19, 2017 at 9:54 pm

Wow. Has your mother ever said why she married a man, and into a family, like this, and then had children with him? He must have had SOME redeeming qualities at some time.
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Angela Jones

March 21, 2017 at 6:01 am

I find it odd how so many people believe that just because you married someone there had to be something good in them. Abusers are very good at picking out people they know they can manipulate. I I honestly have tried to figure out how I could help my marriage before it crumbled or how I could help my ex have a better relationship with his child. He refuses. Looking back now he would say one thing and do another constantly and I never thought he would do that do his child as well. I gave him the benefit of the doubt many times just as you are now. People change from when you first meet them and I think some people improve with age and others sometimes they are so broken that time is the only thing that shows what people truly are. These men or women choose people who are kind and always think the good in people. They do it on purpose because they know what they need to get what they want. I find it so odd how strangers will defend the abusers and give them the benefit of the doubt but the victims are to be questions and doubted so easily. I believe that is what the court system does as well and that is why so many victims, and yes we are victims, have this problem. We are taught so many worthless things in school yet how to identify abusers is not one of them. I sure wouldn't have married mine and had a child with him if I knew he would do what he has. I'm educated and make 6 figures (I write this not to boost but to show it can happen to anyone) and I have been fooled not once but twice because I keep giving the benefit of doubt. If you don't know people can do that and believe the good in people how would you know?
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1st Year Law Student

March 21, 2017 at 7:00 am

Angela, I think the point Lynn was trying to make is that it takes two to make a child. Unless the woman was raped by someone who they weren't dating, the woman must have seen a redeeming quality in the man from the beginning. When things turned sour remains to be seen. I
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Courtney Lynn

March 21, 2017 at 7:55 am

"...defending abusers..." You're right. Alienated children are abuse victims also. And the court too often favors vindictive, lying, birth mothers, who use their children as pawns in their sick war games against their exes. Too many loving fathers (parents) are missing out on their children's lives. Being a former alienated child myself and now the stepmother to an alienated child, I have seen it first hand! People in bad relationships tend to have strings of them. If you find yourself in a pattern of choosing abusers, please seek professional help or you will continue the cycle. And don't bring innocent lives into your chaos until the cycle is broken!
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Angela Jones

March 21, 2017 at 8:45 am

Well since I have experience with both In my lifetime I should caution you to be careful throwing the "rape" word out there. I can tell you first hand both are painful but actually having a child with someone who is an abuser, from my view point is worse. One of the reasons I married my ex is because I was raped and I was very vulnerable and thought he would never hurt me. I don't see why bringing that into a conversation is valid except for the shock value. To be honest I would rather be raped again then have to deal with my ex or watch what he is doing to my child. In some ways it is like being raped over and over without any hope until the child becomes of age it he loses interest. If I knew now what I knew then, I would have been artificially insemnation rather then put my child through what she is dealing with now. It again amazes be how the protection stays with the abusers and the victims can speak up but there is always someone who has to continue the beat down. You don't want to learn anything just judge everyone with a different view then you do. Thank you for pointing my point. Do u even have kids?
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1st Year Law Student

March 21, 2017 at 6:34 pm

Angela, I hope you get the help you need. Certainly seems like you need it.
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Kim

March 22, 2017 at 6:21 am

Isn't it so awful. Kids need both parents. It is especially awful when it is PAS(parental alienation syndrome). I am sorry you had to go through that. It happens very often. Shame on those who put their children in that position. Our job is to raise them, not own them.
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Angela Jones

March 22, 2017 at 9:44 am

oh trust me I have gotten the help regarding falling for an abuser. However, I don't think it's my fault that he choose me and I truely did not realize what he was doing. If you don't know people can be like that it is every hard to know they exist. I also hope that anyone thinks I would do parent alienation bc I haven't. He can come anytime he likes but would rather tell my child he is coming and then not show up without telling her why. Is that parent alienation? He is making his choices yet everyone blames me of parent alienation, crazy. I don't say anything to my child and let her make her own decision about her father is that parent alienation? There are two sides to everything and I just wish people would be willing to consider another persons situation and not assume that we our out to alienate the other parent.
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Sarah

March 22, 2017 at 9:05 pm

Maybe you all need to understand the social dynamics of getting involved with someone who demonstrates characteristics of narcissistic personality disorder and/sociopathic tendencies. These people prey on I suspecting victims and tend to chose loving, kind and trusting partners. Abuse doesn't happen right away. It can slowly creep up on you until your life resembles nothing what it once was. There seems to be so much blame for the woman in discussion for choosing a man who turned out to be a horrible, abusive husband. Why is she being blamed for being abused? I think we can do better then this. Many parents who claim parental alienation have completely alienated themselves by their own inappropriate behaviour. The kids simply don't want to see their game playing, emotionally destructive parent who then cries aliencation to anyone who will listen. Of course, this isn't always the case but let's stop bashing women who have been abused for making a supposed poor choice and look at the man who is choosing to abuse his wife and children by proxy as the real villian in this scenario.
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Sarah

March 22, 2017 at 9:07 pm

Maybe you all need to understand the social dynamics of getting involved with someone who demonstrates characteristics of narcissistic personality disorder and/sociopathic tendencies. These people prey on I suspecting victims and tend to chose loving, kind and trusting partners. Abuse doesn't happen right away. It can slowly creep up on you until your life resembles nothing what it once was. There seems to be so much blame for the woman in discussion for choosing a man who turned out to be a horrible, abusive husband. Why is she being blamed for being abused? I think we can do better then this. Many parents who claim parental alienation have completely alienated themselves by their own inappropriate behaviour. The kids simply don't want to see their game playing, emotionally destructive parent who then cries aliencation to anyone who will listen. Of course, this isn't always the case but let's stop bashing women who have been abused for making a supposed poor choice and look at the man who is choosing to abuse his wife and children by proxy as the real villian in this scenario.
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1st Year Law Student

March 22, 2017 at 9:45 pm

Do you realize how many fathers who have fallen for the trap of "you can come here any time you want to see your kids" only to be accused of Domestic violence, get slapped with a protection order, and then having their rights taken away? If you aren't telling him, to come to your place, instead of dropping the kids off at his place, there may be parental alienation going on.
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1st Year Law Student

March 22, 2017 at 9:55 pm

Sarah, No one is blaming the woman for abuse. Get real! This is about having children with someone through consensual sex and limiting access to the children because of vindictiveness.... and quite often for a paycheck. It is interesting that 60+% of all documented child abuse claims are perpetrated by the biological mother yet generally they self victimize. Nearly half of all domestic violence is perpetrated by the wife, yet men have very little legal protections. And if you understand about narcissists and sociopaths, they tend to blame others for what they are doing themselves in an effect to mask their mental illness. Again, they are excellent at manipulation.
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Lynn

March 23, 2017 at 12:46 am

There are plenty of women who are abusive too; they're more likely to abuse people who can't get away from them, like children or dependent adults. There are also not a small number of people, usually but not always women, who do seek out no-good men because they think they can change them.
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Angela Jones

March 23, 2017 at 6:25 am

I believe you all are talking about a very small percentage and not seeing the bigger picture. Most custodial parents are not doing what u suggest and would love to have a great relationship with the noncustodial parent. Fighting to protect this small percentage you are speaking about eliminates the protection for the bigger percentage that needs that protection. Again, I say giving the benefit of the doubt to all including this small percentage is hurting the kids way more than helping the vast majority that need the helps from the court. I would never even think of the crap 1st year is taking about and I don't think most parents would. If my ex was good to my child I would luv that because it is good for her to have her dad. Most parents want what is best for their child. Yet we are accusses of parent alienation or whatever bc people assume if there is an issue we are in that small percentage group. I think 1st year that you have twisted ideas maybe that is what happened to you not sure but WOW!
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Kim

March 23, 2017 at 7:40 am

Lynn, you are so correct. There are quite a few woman who abuse. It is much more prevalent than people realize. They get away with it by saying their latest whatever is "for the children". They are actually lousy mothers as well as abusive mothers. It is awful to watch.
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CAL

March 23, 2017 at 8:11 am

Angela Jones, I have tried for the last few days to stay out of this conversation, but your comment this morning merited a retort. What Kim & Lynn have been saying is 100% correct, PA (Parental Alienation- the act of interfering with the relationship of a parent/child), PAS (Parental Alienation Syndrome- the psychology of why a parent interferes with the relationship of a parent/child) or PI (Parental Interference- the legal term for one parent involving or interfering with the relationship of a parent/child) is more of the norm, whether intentional or unintentional. A study done by Newsweek in 2008 found that there are many attributing factors that lead to this and as a result is unhealthy for all involved, especially the children. According to the study divorces have become more ugly as a result of technology and has been the fetter for cases of alienation. What they found is that nearly 85% of all child custody goes to the mother. They also found that more than 71% of all non-custodial fathers see their children, as a result of the mother or the courts, less than once a week. as a result of the internet and technology women have been using information they find or arguments they create to manipulate the law under domestic violence creating a new level of abuse that is damaging both to the father as well as the child. As a result women obtain orders of protection under false premise due to a clause found in most OP laws throughout the country called the 'fear of life' or 'stalking.' These items need to be dismissed in a relationship if there is no evidence of criminal intent especially when children are involved and should be before a criminal court first before if can be consider in a family court with respects to visitation and women know this and take advantage of the situation and judges don't care to invest the time. I know this to be true as I have lived it. My ex decided that life is about winning rather than the best interests of the child or what is right. As Lynn brought up, 'women are abusers as well.' They are and unless judges have the gumption to do what is right men are taken advantage of wrongfully each day and children are cheated out of the best of life set into a world of depression and chasing after things to fill the wholes and not letting either parent in to resolve the issues because they want nothing to do with their parent's drama and are themselves on survival mode trying to get out. I have seen this in cases of kids who are now teens as well as adults who have dealt with the hell as well as other parents of PA who are beyond that period in life and had to reconstruct a life with their now adult children. As Kim said, "Children need both parents." Alienation is not just something that a mother does but either custodial parent can be guilty of either intentionally (for selfish reasons) or unintentionally (because they are oblivious or don't think they would ever do so). It is something that happens either as a degrading comment either to a child or in front of a child and can be as extreme as running half way across the country to find a judge to eliminate a parent from the relationship of a child. In my case it was the later and when I asked my ex what she wanted her comment was simple (and said to me several times)- "I want to destroy you!" Unfortunately if you do not understand this, you are clearly living in a bubble. Abuse is a bad thing and I feel for those who have truly been abused, but understand it is very difficult for one to have sympathy for one of abuse when the very law needed to protect them was used in a vindictive and false way to destroy the relationship of a parent and child and to do so only to destroy an ex-spouse. http://www.newsweek.com/divorce-new-rules-child-custody-83545
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1st Year Law Student

March 23, 2017 at 11:22 am

CAL, You are absolutely right. However, it goes must deeper than this. Children are a profit center for the courts and for the State. Women get the child support, the State gets to process the child support for a price, the courts create orders that create conflict so there is repeat business. It is a vicious cycle.
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Julie

March 23, 2017 at 2:09 pm

I happened across this site in a Google search and have to chime in. I don't deny that there's lots of women (just as men) who are manipulative and abusive. However, as someone who was with an extremely abusive and scary person, I can say that the exact reason so many women stay in these abusive relationships for so long is because of comments that are exactly like those on this thread. If you have really been abused, no one can blame you more than you blame yourself - so it's a waste of your breath to chastise women for having stayed with an abusive man, or having had children with him. Once kids are involved you, as the abused, have two choices - risk you and their lives by leaving and possibly no one believing you and protecting you, or stay and try to do everything you can to avoid the violence. Both are very scary prospects. In the end, I chose leaving while my children were still babies - I decided I would rather he kill us then to have my kids repeat the cycle as either the abused or the abuser. He tried to kill us, and he went to jail for seven years. Now that he is out (and trying to get visitation), I don't believe my children should have to pay for and be raised with an abusive, violent person because of my mistakes. Sure, I made an life-altering, horrific mistake for having been with him and staying with him (although abusers DO in fact prey on young, naive people who have had few relationships - which was me at the time - and then make you believe their abuse is because you are doing something wrong). But, the most important thing people should care about is that the kids shouldn't have to suffer because of their parents mistakes. If you want to make the woman pay for having chosen the wrong partner to have kids with, I assure you, she's already paying for it more than you could ever know. But, what everyone should be most concerned with is what is best for the children so patterns don't keep being passed down over generations.
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Lynn

March 23, 2017 at 8:24 pm

I can think of several women who divorced when their children were adults (or, for that matter, were widowed) and their kids had nothing to do with them afterwards. They always said things like "My ex-husband turned them against me" or "They liked him better because he didn't discipline them" but it was quite obvious within about 30 seconds of the beginning of the conversation why the kids didn't want to see her, and didn't want their own children around her. Since this website IS mostly about women keeping the kids away from their ex-husbands, I do have a situation in my extended family where the kids, who are now adults, want nothing to do with their father OR anyone in his extended family; they don't even hit him up for money and I'm actually surprised they haven't changed their names. Nobody will tell me why, except that it's for the best, and I probably don't want to know what happened anyway because I know about some of the things SHE did during and after the divorce, and they were sickening.
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Kim

March 24, 2017 at 7:54 am

Julie, As was stated earlier, this is a site about PAS type situations. Yours is not that. I am so sorry that you had to go through that.(and go through it) I am not referring to abused women, but women(and men) who keep children away from parents and claim abuse when it is not there. It is so detrimental to children to be kept from a non-abusive parent. NPD is a lot more dangerous than I ever thought. I hope your life has peace now.
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Angela Jones

March 24, 2017 at 8:03 am

Julie, Your comments are very valid for this discussion and thank you for sharing. I think people need to be open to discussion that a lot of people mistake for PAS so that the discussion is not just certain people's point of view. I hope you find peace and happiness.
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Angela Jones

March 24, 2017 at 8:06 am

Kim, A lot of people have expressed their opinions. Why do you single out Julie among all of us who have shared? Just curious.
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Lynn

March 24, 2017 at 12:12 pm

I'm having a hard time believing that any court would allow a man who did 7 years for abusing his family to have visitation rights.
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1st Year Law Student

March 24, 2017 at 1:58 pm

Lynn, Would you feel the same way if it was the woman who did 7 years? What about drugs? I've seen cases were a mother was an addict, got high in front of the kid, and was so messed up she attempted suicide on the living room floor... Also in front of the kid. She still got 50/50 custody. How about a case where the courts, CPS, and the GAL all knew the mother was on drugs and married a registered sex offender with no right of contact with children. She was friends with someone in CPS so she was protected for two years until a wellness check discovered the little girl all covered in rashes from playing on a carpet where their dog had been using for his bathroom. Courts often empower people to make poor parenting choices which effects the children.
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Angela Jones

March 24, 2017 at 2:24 pm

As I waited for the judge to get to my case he actually allowed supervised visits to a man who raped a minor got her pregnant, served prison time for it. The child if I remember was not even two, i remember just being in shock that the judge would even entertain a custody hearing with this man. In my experience as As long as the parents say they want visitation the court allows it.
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Angela Jones

March 24, 2017 at 2:26 pm

It might be supervised which I think makes the parent mad and act out more.
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June Ybarbo

April 1, 2017 at 3:01 am

Ok so I was married for 13 yrs. Almost getting a divorce. We have a biological daughter and a step daughter. Step is 16 and biological is 13. We have had a very toxic marriage. I literally walked on egg shell's everday everyday was hell. The last year he started yelling at his step daughter every day nothing nice to say. I had had enough and told him so. Told him I wanted a divorce. I tried staying in the house with my kids. Tried kicking him out. And he wouldn't stop yelling and cussing at me and my daughter. I moved out and both children were so happy I had finally stood up for myself. When I left I had 80$. I worked 80+ hours a week So I could get a place for me and my kids. It took 2 weeks and my youngest said she wanted to stay with her dad because she didn't want him to be alone. She has not talked to me since. 2 weeks after i moved into my apartment he moved his girlfriend in with him and my daughter. The girlfriend is now 4 months pregnant and we have been seperated for 6 months. My daughter has told me she has a new mom now. She refuses to talk to me and says horrible things. In which my husband tells me I deserve it because I abandoned them. So my divorce hearing is in 10 days and now he is making her come every other week starting this Sunday. I am so confused on to why she didn't want to see me in the first place. I have been reading a lot about parental alienation. Am I in the wrong here like he keeps saying or does it seem like this could be parental alienation? What can I do? I don't have money for a lawyer and he is using her to get most of our assets. He told her I was taking everything from them and they were going to be homeless because I wanted to sell the house and split around 50,000.00 of profit we would get. I am letting him buy me out for 15,000.00. And letting him keep all of our stuff 2 motorcycles trailers lots of stuff. As long as custody is shared with me. Now that I agreed to his offer visitation finally will happen. Anyways sorry so long court is in 10 days and any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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Angela Jones

April 1, 2017 at 7:58 am

Hi there and I am so sorry you and your children are going through this. I have a feeling you soon to be ex is doing parent alienation and his lawyer has told him that he better allow visitation or else you would be able to claim it. I wouldn't have agreed to everything u have agreed to because you have two kids not just one and both your kids and yourself will need money. Not having a lawyer is a very big risk and be prepared to get ran over in court. The child is old enough to start making choices and hopefully she will be able to stand up for what she wants instead of doing everything her father says. I would ask her on one of her Sunday visits (maybe just the two of you) what if anything would make this easier on her. Really listen to her, don't cut her off and just let her get it out and just remain calm. Do that a couple of times or as long as she needs and she will come around. Kids need to feel listen to so they can heal, just like adults. It's amazing how they can bounce back and forgive when they believe they are being heard. Good luck to u. :(
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Lynn

April 1, 2017 at 1:02 pm

There are always two sides to every story, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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CAL

April 1, 2017 at 1:55 pm

June- It breaks my heart that you are going through this as it gives me flashbacks of what I had to deal with regarding my ex. First comment I will say to you is buckle up your seatbelt as he will take you for a ride through hell. If you have a dissolution hearing they will decide your assets and visitation. I don't say what I am about to say as legal advice only by experience. FIRST you ARE experiencing PA but most don't realize it until it becomes so ugly simply because you are trying to process everything. Yes you did the right thing by separating from a toxic relationship but made 2 serious mistakes that you will need to play aggressive with and fight back. The first was to leave the house. The second mistake was to leave your daughter with him. The combination makes it very easy to have you loose out on her and that relationship and allow him the advantage to make things worse between you and her. I will give you the Liam Neison "Taken" response. - You will go to court and the judge will NOT make him sell the house but have him give you a settlement. - You will loose custody of your daughter as the judge will say that because he has the house, the interest of the child comes first and since she has an established school and friends he/she will grant custody to him. - Unless you fight for the assets to be evenly split, including liquidating motorcycles, vehicles and property you WILL loose out on even more. -He will hit you will child support and depending on the state it could be either just you net income or the net income of by you and him times about 28% (and if joint income it is multiplied by the percentage of time you DON'T have with your child being your responsibility). - The judge will give you joint custody, but it is likely that in the next couple years the judge will likely eliminate all of your visitation and will likely effect your child support. _ You will NOT have the child tax credit and may be responsible for all of her medical expenses and extra curricular expenses where he will likely involved her in several things just to spite you. So with this being your reality, what do you do? I would suggest you see if you qualify for legal aid and try to get a lawyer through that route. Second come up with both a parenting plan and file it with the court and have it served on the other party. This is done through a motion filing as well as a notice of service. Talk to the clerk of court to see if they have forms, but don't file this on your own if you have an attorney. Next make sure you have a fully detailed list of ALL assets including the house, vehicles, personal assets and money and retirement accounts as you should be entitled to half of everything. If you don't have this list and he does, but leaves out items a judge is likely not going to give you parts of those assets. If he sells something prior to court, he will have to answer to that. If there are vehicles I would pull up a NADA of Kelly Blue Book valuation to take to court. This would be the same with the house which you can obtain through Zillow or Redfin. NOW the harder thing, your daughter. Seeing she is 13 the judge may suggest she testify who she wants to live with. BE CAREFUL OF THIS as it normally backfires and you immediate go from just loosing your child and having 50/50 visitation to restricted visitation as your starting point. You will need to defend the need for your active role in her life and interject the importance of the girls being together and having at least constant access as a result of it being detrimental for both children and at the end of the day it is the best interest. It is likely he will obtain custody and make hell on earth for everyone and require you to find a healthy way to deal with the ugly ride ahead. PLEASE, I cannot stress this enough, find a good support group that you can have a couple people to meet with in person to help you through this process. Take care of yourself because the girls will be looking for the parent who is the most emotionally stable because they will be going through a lot themselves and may not discuss it in full simply because they will not be able to vocalize it. If I am correct your 13 y.o., by the time she is 16, will feel emotionally abandoned by your husband as the new baby will take presidence and will be looking to come back to you for the stability and why you need to stabilize yourself. I hope this helps. I am sorry to bring this to you in the real terms.
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June Ybarbo

April 1, 2017 at 11:07 pm

You would think so. But not in this case.
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June Ybarbo

April 1, 2017 at 11:16 pm

Thank you For your feedback. I don't have money for lawyers. I finally get her for a week tomorrow. I am not fighting him on anything I am just letting him have it all. He has agreed to give me 15,000.00 which is considerably less then what are assets all together are worth. And still I am very selfish for even wanting this he says. I can't afford a lawyer so this is the only way I could get time with my daughter. And hope that she won't be angry at me anymore for trying to take everything from them. And I agree the 2 biggest mistakes I made was leaving the house and leaving her there. He refused to leave and I really was so depressed I couldn't stay any longer.
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Lynn

April 2, 2017 at 12:48 am

Several posts ago, I mentioned some relatives where the now-grown kids want nothing to do with their father, and the mother did some terrible things. One of the terrible things she did was constantly take the kids to doctors, so he would be soaked with medical expenses. She also got kicked out of multiple therapists' offices for saying things like "Now, tell the nice counselor how much you hate Daddy" and was going to play the sexual abuse card, which the kids refused to go along with because he hadn't done it. Yep, they're right. I probably don't want to know what he did (or didn't do, as the case may be).
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Kim

April 3, 2017 at 7:58 am

I am so sorry. Unless a person is an abuser, no one should be denied visitation from a child. At 13 a child can be very self centered and will chose the house where they get the most, if they think they can keep the peace, or both. PAS is so toxic. The parent causing it is very crafty and has one goal in mind. My youngest stepdaughter answered when asked if she was feeling pressured to stay at her mother's all the time like her sister, "no, they just tell me all the time they want to be with me all the time. It's not mean against dad, it is said in a loving way". What child wouldn't feel pressured when constantly told "but we want to be with you ALL the time"? She didn't even see it as that. That is how they do it. Since you asked....focus on you and being the best you can be for your kids. God willing she will come around, but if not all you can do is your best. I, also, had some counseling to help with someone like that.
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Jason

April 11, 2017 at 1:30 pm

Hello, My children have been visiting there mother since July 5th of this year. I have not had any issues with this but now know that she is pregnant with this man's child. I have spoken to my daughter and son and both of them love their mother but hate the man she is with. They don't like him trying to be their father and they don't like his attitude and many other things. We have 50/50 custody and I would like to know how to help this. I don't want to force them to go but they just don't want to be around this man.
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Kim

April 12, 2017 at 6:27 am

Obviously it is your choice, but they will come in contact with many people they(and you) don't like. If you can I would speak gently with my ex about this. (if the kids feel they can't) If there is mistreatment that is always different, but we are giving our kids today( I teach) the mistaken impression they don't have to deal with people they don't like. It all depends on the individual situation. My ex had multiple women in his life(and my children's lives) and my "boys" are healthy adults with good relationships(an engineer and the youngest with his masters in International affairs). They have both travelled to other continents. It wasn't easy at times, but we talked through stuff that bothered them and they, at times, saw a counselor. They love their dad for who he is and have good relationships with us both.(and love me for my flaws too) Best of luck....being a parent is so hard.
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CAL

April 12, 2017 at 7:17 am

Excellent advice Kim! The truth is you want to instill into your kids the skill of problem solving. As Kim said if the two of you are on good terms it makes it much easier to instill that in your kids. There are only a few times that this requires you to step in and run screen but that all comes at a cost; abuse, neglect or unreasonable deficience of an ex. It is likely that her new guy will reject the kids after the baby is born and will create a new set of feels of rejection by the kids. You are in a training process for your kid's future social skills. Your goal is to give them the navigation skills with people they may not like or agree with and being successful will go a long way.
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1st Year Law Student

April 12, 2017 at 7:55 am

Kim, I disagree with your assessment. Where there is smoke, there is fire. The kids are raising concerns about their relationship. Since the woman has elected to have a baby with this man, she is looking at creating a new family. The kids has more than likely already addressed their concerns to the mother, and the mother would have responded with the a-typical, "I'm your mom. I know what's best for you. You have to accept this guy in your life." Actually, the kids don't have the accept him. They have their own mind and their own opinions. Forcing children to have a step father is not about the best interest of the child, but about the self serving interest of the mother. We have to remember, every decision a person makes effects the people around them, especially their own minor children. Now, if they like the guy, but the father is feeling emasculated by the thought of another man parenting his children, then that is another story. Children, most of all, need stability. Having too much or too many changes in their lives can cause a lot of problems. CAL, Instill problem solving skills? Most adults lack these skills, and I don't know of any children under 14 that can adequately handle this sort of problem when you have a parent forcing contact between the new boyfriend and the kids. They have no power to solve the problem. Parenting is easy.... showing up is half the battle. The other half is composed of self respect, listening, and empathy.
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CAL

April 12, 2017 at 8:52 am

1st timer, let me respond to you with a question, as it will prove my point and validity to your descent to both myself and Kim's comment. Are you a parent and are you speaking from the angle of an attorney or a parent or a parent wronged? Just because you see smoke doesn't always mean there is a fire. I will break it down on some simple things in technology to prove my point. Does a vape create a fire to discharge smoke? Does a humidifier create smoke via a fire? So if these things create smoke without a fire how is it that if there is a problem or a misunderstand can you interpret it a solely a 'real problem?' There may be more to the story as age of the child and them trying to find their place in life. It could be that they have tried to manipulate a situation and seeing they didn't get their way they paint someone in a bad light. Not just because a child says that someone is bad constitutes to the person being bad. Sometimes they may be and it is why coparenting and communication is necessary and it is why you allow for kids to fight some of their own battles and NOT always get involved. This is something called conflict resolution and parents, just like children, must understand when and when not to get involved with the drama of a child. This would be understood by a parent, especially one with teenagers as they try breaking out and testing the waters at about 12 or 13 and it only gets more difficult.
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Gregory Forman

April 12, 2017 at 11:22 am

Have you considered filing a new case to change the 50/50 custody?
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Angela jones

April 12, 2017 at 12:23 pm

So let me get this straight. They HAVE to visit their noncustodial parent even when they don't want to buy get to choose to have a relationship with their step parent in which in most cases the child sees more? Talk about confusion and hypercritical.
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1st Year Law Student

April 12, 2017 at 12:39 pm

CAL, Your analogy falls flats. Neither Vape nor humidifiers have smoke. I am speaking from the angle of children's rights, which are often overlooked. Children are human with human emotions and are not property of the parents. Parent vs Child... A child won't win this battle because of the lack of power they have. You are conflating peer problem solving with problems created by the parent or parents.
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CAL

April 12, 2017 at 1:33 pm

1st Year, you have just proven my point that you ARE NOT a parent and are only speaking from an angle of an attorney (inexperienced). You want to claim that a child can make decisions on their own but the reality is that is a graduated thing which children learn over time. To expect that a child has the capacity to make cognitive decisions shows your lack of the development and psychosis of a child. Stop talking like you have an understanding of what each child may need when you attempt to shoehorn every situation and child into the same mould simply because you are looking from a narrow minded angle according to a law. The reality is your debate runs flat as well seeing that each state has rules in determination of visitation and custody and is subject to the state laws as laid out under UCCJEA law. Most states laws very clearly state that a child does not have the decision power to decide if they will visit with a noncustodial parent like Florida or NY while other states will allow for decisions to be made by a child once they reach 16 years old. What you clearly missed in the original post was 2 things. - 'We have 50/50 parenting.' - 'We have been amicable, but now the kids are uncomfortable with her boyfriend.' These 2 factors are very important as, unlike Greg stated and should have asked a different question (do you think you two can work things out on the behalf of the children), because it shows that there is no reason to jump to legal action or belligerence to a current agreement. If you do preempt this you agitate the situation that only benefits the attorney. So if any attorney thinks that they are looking out for the best interest of a child by suggesting to take it to court rather than try to work things out is an insult to the best interest of a child. Legal recourse should ALWAYS be the last resort. This poster seems like he can resolve the problem and yes there may be an issue down the road but to use an aggressive response (or ignorance on your behalf) would create more harm than good for the child.
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1st Year Law Student

April 12, 2017 at 2:15 pm

CAL, Are you finished ranting? Do not assume that my perspective is that of an attorney or following the law. I never used legal terms. In fact, my belief is that the law is wrong. The tender years doctrine was wrong, the orphan train was wrong, and the best interest of the child is often abused by the courts to award custody to the mother. Almost any psychologist will tell you that if tell your child that they must interact with the parent's new boyfriend or girlfriend under threat of punishment, it is harmful to the child and a violation of the child's self automony. In theory, the other parent could report that as child maltreatment and have it investigated. I also disagree on your assertion that children can't decide. Ask a police officer if they are allowed to enforce a custody order and make a non- willing child go with the other parent. Age does come into effect. Small children of course can't make decisions on visitation. But if parental alienation doesn't exist, and the child is old enough to make a reasonable argument as to why they shouldn't see the other parent, the child's voice should be heard. In the alternative, there is generally a mental health decline, kids get involved with drugs, and being promiscuous. Each family situation is different. The poster said they were amicable. This doesn't mean they don't disagree on what the best interest of the children are. It just means they have probably bit their tongues a few times because the kids didn't have an issue before. If the issue is something that he knows his ex won't budge on legal recourse is the only option.
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CAL

April 12, 2017 at 2:47 pm

1st Year- Yes sorry for the rant but understand when I see poor advice it needs to be thwarted. The best interest argument is certainly NOT something in the benefit of a child and is abused on a continuous basis. When I hear anyone use that argument I will push back as it is a legal excuse for attorneys to take advantage of the situation under the guys of a child. I DON'T disagree with your assessment about 'forcing' a child to have a relationship with a parent's significant other and it is something that both parents if possible need to talk about and see how to resolve the issue for the child's best interest. At the same time it requires that the child must show respect to an adult and not use phrases like 'your not my dad', 'my dad says that I don't have to listen to you" or any other thing as it agitates the situation further. When someone with kids gets a divorce it is VERY likely that there is a lot of tongue biting or full out judicial throw down, guarantee. With that said it is never in the best interest to create battle lines and slam things into court as it creates for more issues for the children. When someone uses the court as the first course of action, look out as things will get VERY ugly. Yes each case is based individually as the development of children come at different stages and time. As children do not have the ability to see a broad perspective to weigh out cause and effect until about 21-23, and is necessary for a parent to intervene in most cases. This doesn't require a parent to helicopter everything they do as when a child gets older a parent needs to dial it back. Unfortunately the courts think there is a once size that fits all and the development for all children are the same failing children each day. It is for this reason that a court should not get involved unless there is proof of physical or sexual abuse or neglect. To often children are pressured for loyalism and are willing to sell out one parent over the other and both custodial and noncustodial parents should be aware and NOT play that game because in the end the child looses.
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rogue

April 25, 2017 at 5:22 pm

So, I have a question regarding this scenario. I'll try to keep it short, please feel welcome to ask questions. My ex husband last saw our children in 2012 (1 visit), I recently renewed an RTO for an additional 5 years (which does not affect visitation which is supervised through a third party institution, they record all visits and communication). He has mentioned in court recently that he intends to schedule visits. My concern is this is retaliation, had it not been for my request he would not have bothered to look the boys up. Do they have any rights in this situation? They ARE encouraged, supported and loved but I can't make them do anything. Especially when I believe it is not in their best interest. (there are a too many details to include at once, please ask.)
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Janie Hall

May 7, 2017 at 3:13 pm

My parents divorced when I was 13. My dad had basically ignored me my entire life, so when I learned that my parents were getting divorced, I thought it was the BEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO ME. I overlooked the part where now I actually have to spend time with him. He was going to fight for custody, so her team told his team that if they let her have full custody without a fight, they wouldn't get the therapist involved and fight for supervised or no visitation. Of course they gave in. My father is an incredibly selfish man. It was my mother's job to cook, clean, take care of me, and earn the money. From the time I could talk, he mocked me until I cried whenever I said I wanted mom. Only he could think that "we can't afford to send our kid to Disney every year" means that he should go to Disney without his kid every single year. I spend my younger years begging him to go to church with us, but he didn't, not when I was in the children's choir, not when I played flute, not on Christmas many years. But when my mom filed for divorce, suddenly he was a Christian and divorce was always wrong, and the divorce was so hard on me, yada, yada, yada. When he was court ordered to move out, he tried to stall by saying he had cancer and screamed at me for ten minutes strait about what a witch my mom was for changing the locks. And all of a sudden, he wants to be the parent, and being anything but the perfect daughter would lead to him insisting my mother take away my music lessons, my time with my friends, the private high school I wanted to go to - and later - the school I currently attended and my dream of going away to college. There was not one visit that I ever wanted to go on. He has quite the rage and threatened to kill me more times than I can count. I could not stand up to him on my own, and though my mom is wonderful, she did not have my back on this. She forced me to go, and once I was alone with him, I fearfully agreed with everything he said. I could not bring myself to tell him off for the way he talked about my mom and her family. I knew I had to hug my mom before I opened the front door and not wave to her where he could see if I did not want him to blow up at me in the car. And his family (who I didn't interact with much until the divorce) was absolutely awful. The men would go on about how if a girl didn't cover up, she was asking to be raped and shouldn't be allowed an abortion, and then my grandma and aunt would try to force me into more revealing bathing suits and clothes, so I spend my teen years constantly worried that I would be raped. I had a plan and everything to be able to get an abortion without telling anyone if I needed to (because getting pregnant was one of the things my dad threatened to killl me for). Whenever he was busy, I might nit see him for weeks, but he never took no for an answer from me. Freshman year, I fell ill and was constantly exhausted, dizzy, vomiting, short of breath, in pain over my entire body, and having heart palpitations. I lived like this for a year until my mom took me to Mayo Clinic, which my dad will still insist I didn't need. I was diagnosed with POTS, a chronic condition that does not just go away and has a whole list of symptoms ranging from quirky to hell, but that wasn't good enough for my dad. Whener I told him that I didn't feel well or was too sick to go, the next time I saw him, he made a big production of asking me who I caught a cold from. Now, I do not care about my relationship with my dad because I have never had one and never will. However, this drove a huge wedge between my mom and I. Throughout my teen years, this was nearly the only thing we fougt about. As I constantly reminded her: I still had to deal with him, and she didn't. My mom and dad would sometimes text, and I did everything I could to get her to stop so he wouldn't blow up at me over something she said. But if she wasn't texting him, he'd get mad about that. I don't know if I'll ever get over her not fighting for supervised visitation. How little she said negative about him irked me to no end because he said things 10x worse every visit about her. At the end of the day though, I know my mom loves me and my dad doesn't; that's the difference. I know she thought she was doing what was best for me, but my dad only wanted what was best for himself and does not love me. I fail to see why that is so hard to understand and contact him as little as possible.
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Deanna Lopresti

May 15, 2017 at 7:25 am

What about when the child takes off when you say you are taking them. There have been alligetation of abuse
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Jon Ryder

May 16, 2017 at 11:20 pm

Reading the comments below it's no wonder kids are so screwed up today. Even worse, the whole tragedy has been turned into a major cash cow industry.
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Mrs. Lady Scorpio

May 20, 2017 at 9:21 am

My 9 year old told me he don't want to see his dad like that, even though i have sole legal and physical custody of mines. I will not force my child to be there if he don't want to. Next time before doing the crime think of your children then this will not be a problem. Never force a child to do what they don't wanna do period
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Janie Hall

May 20, 2017 at 10:03 am

Mr. Forman, you act like this is some new magical idea that we have never heard before. My parents divorced when I was 13, and my mom got full custody. There was NEVER a single visit I wanted to go on, but nobody gave a flying rat's behind. My dad and I virtually never interacted before the divorce. He would come home from work, go to the basement, and that would be all I saw of him. He never went to church with us, but when my mom filed for divorce, suddenly he's a conservative Christian and she's going to hell for divorcing him. He threatened to kill me on multiple occasions and has a rage like you wouldn't believe. He talked bad about my mom, her mom, her sister, and at least one of her four brothers every single visit, yet he expected me to carry messages to relatives of hers that he liked. His family would make it known how much they hated my mother, then call me by her name all the time. He is 300 pounds but commented on my weight every visit and wanted to know why I wasn't losing a pound a day. I developed a serious chronic illness, and he still insists that I am not really sick. He could not care less that I could not breathe or stand or digest food without these medications. And whenever I would cancel a visit because I didn't feel well enough to go, he made a huge production about asking me what I caught and who from. He would throw a fit whenever he saw me hug or wave to my mother. He and his family would make fun of my religious upbringing and modest dress. He was constantly asking me - his teenage daughter - if I wanted to go to Hooters, and he and his family made it clear that they had no respect for women and no care about violence against us. He was constantly referring to my friends with archaic and offensive racial terms. He was extremely possessive and jealous. He heard from my cousin that I had a crush and told my mom that we were dating to try to get me in trouble, and he and his family tormented me for months because there was one boy in my flute section that I became friends with. I could go on for days, but you get the picture. Any time I got upset with him for any of these things, he would turn it around that I hurt his feelings. Now, my mom refuses to have any kind of substantive negative conversation about him, even when it is entirely based in fact, so who am I supposed to tell these things to? Now I am 17 and refusing to go, no matter what either of them say. My mom said I could talk to a councelor about this but has not set that up yet. As I said, my father is extremely rageful and possessive, so I am genuinely afraid even though I have not heard from him recently. I am scared that he will try to hurt my mom or me, but she does not want to hear about these things. That's not doing what's best for your child. That's putting the ex you divorced over your child.
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Janie Hall

May 21, 2017 at 11:23 am

My parents divorced when I was 13, and there was no single visitation I wanted to go on. NONE. My father and I hardly saw each other before the divorce. He would come home from work, go down to the basement, and that was it. My mom did all the cleaning, cooking, childcare, and landscaping while making twice as much money as him. Of course he complained about how she did it. He never attended my events or went to church with us. My mom gave me a traditional Catholic upbringing as much as possible without his help. He has a rage like you wouldn't believe and threatened to kill me on multiple occasions. He talked horribly about my mother and her entire family every single visit, and I knew better than to set him off by defending them or hugging/waving goodbye to my mother in his presence. I developed a serious chronic illness, and I knew better than to set him off by defending myself when he insisted that it was not real and did not require treatment. I knew better than to say anything when he ranted about how crazy and awful women are and constantly asks me if I want to go to Hooters. I knew better than to say anything when he referred to my friends with offensive racial terms and then wondered why I wouldn't invite them over. I knew better than to set him off by pointing out that he has a BMI of about 40 while mine is 28, and he wants to know my I'm not losing a pound a day. His whole family is either giving me the silent treatment while I'm there or making fun of my religious upbringing and choice of dress. He is extremely jealous and possessive, trying to get me in trouble with my mom when he heard from my cousin that I had a crush. He and his family tormented me for weeks because there was one boy in my flute section that I had grown a friendship with. He screams at me, holding me responsible for everything my mother had done. His family makes it known how much they hate her but call me by her name all the time. Now he is trying to stop me from going away to college like I've dreamed since I was a little girl. I could go on all day, but you get the picture. However, my mother does not. How am I supposed to explain these things to her when she refuses to have the smallest negative conversation about him, even when it's entirely based in fact? Whenever I did manage to get something out, she just had to confront him and make everything word for me. Her entire family refuses to say the tiniest negative thing about him, which is extremely irksome when he rants about them every visit. Now I am 17 and refusing to go, no matter what either of my parents say. My mom thinks she took me out of a toxic situation, but she didn't. She just left me to deal with it on my own and is still putting him over me. As I said, my father is very rage-filled and possessive, so I am genuinely afraid for my safety and my mother's. After being the subject of his rage for years, she is still naive enough to think that he would treat his daughter any differently, so clearly he has her in the palm of his hand.
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Dee

May 28, 2017 at 3:38 pm

Yeah... soooooo... when one parent has had boundary issues for over a decade, which was even documented by a therapist which he selected to "deprogram the child due to alienation by the mother"... he saw this therapist alone with the child for a period of 2 and one half years, while mom remained in the background to allow for them to try to establish a bond. The dad failed three personality tests during a custody eval and when he retook them, the results were that he suffers from "unusual beliefs" and is "nervous and depressed to the point that improvement would be desirable" and mom's results were all how warm, affectionate, empathetic, logical, solution oriented, etc... yet mom was the one forced into counseling due to supposed "alienation". Fast forward nine years from custody eval and minor is now a 16 year old with more than 30 college credits. She still complains that there are serious boundary issues, such as dad picking her bedroom door locks at night and walking in, staring down at her while she pretends to be sleeping. Attempts to access the shower while she is using it and the house is such complete filth that the minor has refused to even shower anymore. There are live bugs crawling in her bed; dad noses through anything and everything in her room the minute she leaves the room to use the bathroom; if she speaks with anyone at school, he is sitting in the parking lot watching and gives the third degree as soon as she gets in the car. He chaperoned EVERY field trip, attended EVERY school event (even the ones parents were asked not to); had to sit right next to her during every girl scout meeting; attempts to arrange friendships with girls that don't even like her; hacks into her social media and puts keyloggers on her laptop. He also applied to teach at the college she was accepted at THE SAME SEMESTER she was accepted and at the same campus. He further declared he would also apply to the university she plans to transfer to. She tried for over a year in therapy to work on the things that bothered her about him but all he does is deny and blame the mom for "brainwashing" again. He refuses to validate anything she says. When she continued to try to address the very real issues, he simply stopped attending the therapy sessions for about 15 months. She tried once more and he again denied, so she gave up and no longer wants to see him. Sooooooo.... I guess I should just grab her by the arms and legs and jam her into the car and force her into his filthy house (which is always spotless when his mom comes for a visit once a year!)... because this would be "in her best interests"? Y'all militant father's rights folks are causing children to commit suicide. Mine almost did at the age of 8 because nobody believed her and she continued to be forced to go. She has shut down entirely and I can't even hug her anymore because she recoils at being touched! Yeah... great job there, protecting those poor dads that are sooooo abused by mean, vindictive and "alienating" women!
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Dee

May 28, 2017 at 4:04 pm

PAS was coined by the very disturbed, pro pedophilia, self published "dr" Richard Gardner, who thrust a steak knife into himself and rid the world of his damaging testimony in courts (always against moms). PAS is an abuser's dream come true. If their children say the slightest negative comment about them, nobody cares about evidence, he just screams that the mom "alienated" them and voila! He gets custody and mom gets put on supervised visits for $120 for one hour per week. Yet, he and his family can call mom all kinds of names in the presence of the child and if mom says anything about it??? ALL LIES! There she goes "alienating" again. Children are committing suicide because of this garbage and nobody seems to care. Please visit www.safekidsinternational.org for more info.
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Brandallynn Hetrick

June 4, 2017 at 9:43 am

So I live in Illinois and have supervised visits my oldest will be 15 in September and on Christmas day I was suppose to have all three of my kids but instead only two of my kids came but my oldest sent a note saying he wasn't coming to visits anymore and so I haven't seen him since december, is that allowed for a child to say he dont want to so they dont make him, doesn't that make the custodial parent and the supervisor in contempt of court
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Gene Rivers

June 4, 2017 at 3:31 pm

In new york a child that age has a say because he is more aware of his feelings and cognitive as to why he/she dont wanna visit that parent anymore.....still....at the end of the day the judge weighs the totality of the circumstances and makes the final decision.....
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Gene Rivers

June 4, 2017 at 5:17 pm

Depending how old the children are you can request a lincoln hearing.....its to have the judge speak to the children about visiting their moms house....if hes not letting them stay up late or eat ice cream for breakfast youll be wasting your time.....if hes mean to them file a modification of the current court order and his abusive attitude around the children should satisfy the change in circumstances that youll need to be granted a modification....you cant ask for a lincoln hearing till your back in court.....speak to your children about why they dont like him and if hes married to their mother it will be more difficult cause their related by blood or marriage so technically he has legal say.....
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Data

June 4, 2017 at 8:44 pm

Hello, I CAN easily EXPLAIN to my 10 years old daughter WHY she has to do her chores/eat her vegetables/practice her violin/brush her teeth if she doesn’t want to. I CAN easily EXPLAIN to her WHY she can not drink bourbon for breakfast when she doesn’t want to drink milk. I'm sure that I will have NO PROBLEM EXPLAINING why she should not have sex with her boyfriend when she will not want to spend the afternoon studying. I CAN easily EXPLAIN to her WHY not to go to the beach when she doesn’t want to go to school. BUT, and this is a huge but: For the life of me, I can NOT EXPLAIN to her WHY she should go to visit my ex wife, when she does not want to. My daughter made a clear decision that she does not want to keep in touch with her mom and communicated it multiple times backed up with reasons. So, when you get a chance, please explain to me the reason WHY should I force her to go? Please don't give me statistics, hypotheticals and "in generals", but instead be specific to address the question: WHY should I force her?
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Gregory Forman

June 11, 2017 at 9:09 am

Because you can go to jail for not following a court order?
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Dee

June 14, 2017 at 3:53 am

You need to look at the Saunders Study. In reality, 97% of allegations involving abuse are, in fact, TRUE. This means that only 3% are made maliciously and without merit.
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Dee

June 14, 2017 at 4:02 am

You are so far off base. How about a real study? Try the Saunders Study. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-love-wisdom/201512/the-strange-advocacy-parental-alienation-syndrome
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Dee

June 14, 2017 at 4:06 am

Mine was an actual diagnosed NPD and all personality testing came back with disturbing results. Still, all he had to say was it's all my fault and scream "parental alienation" ...wash, rinse, repeat. Very effective actually.
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Dee

June 14, 2017 at 4:10 am

Where is your peer reviewed research to back up these outrageous claims? Try the Saunders Study. Less than 3% of "lying vindictive women" are actually lying or vindictive. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-love-wisdom/201512/the-strange-advocacy-parental-alienation-syndrome
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Dee

June 14, 2017 at 4:14 am

No psychiatrist or psychological organization worth their salt accepts PAS as real. You won't find it in any edition of the DSM. It is a "syndrome" named by pro-pedophile, self published, non peer reviewed, dirty old man named Richard Gardner, who plunged a knife into himself. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-love-wisdom/201512/the-strange-advocacy-parental-alienation-syndrome
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Dee

June 14, 2017 at 4:16 am

You're most likely wasting your breath. Unless someone has actually loved and lived with a person with narcissistic personality disorder, you'd have better luck talking to your alarm clock.
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Dee

June 14, 2017 at 4:24 am

Lynn, you must have absolutely zero idea what a personality disorder can mask. Especially when that mask is worn in public. Their "redeeming qualities" are carefully constructed illusions for the self serving benefit of social status and admiration.
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Liza Fischer

June 25, 2017 at 9:28 pm

What if that said parent makes little effort to develop a relationship with said child and it is more for show that they so-called 'want' to see their child one week of every holiday period? No phone calls during term, no letters. Even passing through your hometown (which is 2.5 hours away from theirs) and not bothering to call in?... i call bullshit on your article! Every situation is different!
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Charlie Sobakin

June 27, 2017 at 9:10 am

Comparing doing illegal things to making a decision about parenting time is ridiculous. Can you also make your child to have for a friend the person you chose for him/her? There are lots of things that are simply not enforceable.
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Gregory Forman

June 27, 2017 at 3:51 pm

But a family court visitation order is enforceable and you can go to jail for not obeying it.
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rob brown

June 29, 2017 at 10:47 pm

Well if there is a court order, you explain that there is a court order. So she doesn't understand that? Well, teach her about the law. Otherwise, I don't think there is a requirement that a child understand reasons that they have to do something.
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rob brown

June 29, 2017 at 10:50 pm

Then you convince the court of that. If the court is making the wrong decision, well, that's a problem, but the solution isn't just to ignore what the court says.
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Data

July 3, 2017 at 6:26 pm

She is perfectly aware of the meaning of "shared custody". Yet still, despite that she is refusing to see her mother, because that's how she feels. She has been hurt by the mother's behavior during the years, and as a result she is making a conscious decision, not to see her. My question was WHY should I force her to abandon her feelings and go to see her mother, when this will clearly make her more hurt. So, please the question is still the same: WHY should I force her?
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Data

July 3, 2017 at 6:35 pm

Exactly my point. Blindly enforcing a relationship will only cause more harm than good.
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rob brown

July 4, 2017 at 11:09 pm

It's not you that is forcing her, really, it is the court order. If you violate the court order, you get in a lot of trouble. I imagine you disagree with the court order. And that can suck, but....it isn't really an option to simply not comply with it. The only option is to use the court system to get the order changed.
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Tina Palomares

July 7, 2017 at 5:31 pm

My husband haven't seen his daughters for 7 years from his other relationship. He was in incarcerated and when he got out they they made it very hard for him to see them. When the grandma started calling the cops he stood away because he didn't want to get put back in jail. Long story short, when him and I started planning our wedding we received child support papers. Not a problem, we decided okay this is a chance to see the girls. WRONG. she filed for custody and we fought for visitation. We were ordered counseling for him and the girls. 1st one went good so did the 2nd and 3rd. And The girls were asked " do you want to see your dad and get to know him?" they both said yes.After the 4th visit the mom through a little tantrum because we only had 2 more sessions then we would get regular visitations. She called the counselor a week later and said that the kids no longer want to see him... the counselor wanted to hear it from the kids them self so a week later they called and told the counselor. So now we have no more counseling. Keep in mind she said this at the first hearing and the girls said different at the counseling session. What are our chances of getting visitations. Keep in mind prior to the split he was a great father the ex admitted there was no kind of abuse to her or the kids during their relationship and that he was a great provider.
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Rebecca Ragsdale

July 18, 2017 at 2:30 pm

Well I have joint custody with non custodial parent and he has not been in my daughter's life for 7 years. She is 13 now. I am going back to court for sole physical legal custody. But my daughter made it clear that she wants nothing to do with him and that her step dad has raised her since she was 2. What should I do?
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Wendy

August 1, 2017 at 6:42 am

Obviously Mr Forman has no children. Comparing a child's fear to eating vegetables... Really??!! Would you make the same comparisons if this was your own child?? If you have no actual experience or understanding, stop writing these blogs. People who have not lived thru this type of situation and no clue what it can mentally do to a child is the very reason why the decisions of family court so often fail families. The more uneducated (that's life education,, not university education) decisions forced on families by family courts are in line with increased mental health issues and child/teen suicide.... FACT cannot be argued with. A little advise.... put the text book down and look at the children.
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Suzann Corl

August 6, 2017 at 8:12 am

Thank you for this amazing blog! I see my 8 year old three times a week, but my other three wont come out when i pick him up.I haven't seen my 11 year old daughter since i moved out 8 months ago because she is mad at me. The two teenagers haven't seen me in months. I spent every day of their lives as their primary caregiver and homeschooled them too since preschool! But there dad is a jerk and doesn't make them visit me!!
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Anonymous

August 15, 2017 at 1:01 pm

Sometimes a situation is impossible and the only solution is to walk away. I love my children greatly but it is a choice I made a little over a month ago. My oldest son has severe Autism with an intellectual disability. He does not talk, he cannot keep himself safe, he cannot be alone at all. He cant do the most basic functions, so he requires 24 hour care, which his mother and adult half siblings give him. The last 18 months he has become violent at times. My youngest son and I had a close relationship and even did well the first year or two after his mother and I split up. But she is very toxic, obsessively toxic. I spent $20k on an attorney during the first round of her games, whilst she acted pro-se. The last couple of rounds I was forced to represent myself. She spent the last few years, along with her adult children from a previous relationship, poisoning my youngest son against me. My oldest son, he cant understand so he’ll always love me regardless. So my youngest son has bought into her toxicity hook line and sinker. After interviewing the child the judge told the mother that he has no doubt that the son has been total and completely alienated from his father, for no good reason. He changed the custody to give me a month over the summer and every other weekend with the youngest son. Because of the severe nature of the oldest son’s disability, I had only taken him during the days during visitation. The mother contends that the youngest son doesn’t want visitation, but at age 11 being so thoroughly alienated, of course he’d say that. This alienation started from the day I left the marital house. He was four years old and she called him over and said, in front of me “Daddy is leaving for another woman”. This was not true, but even if it was, you don’t tell that to a four year old. So he “refused” the new visits as well. The judge made it clear in his order that the mother must make him come, that an 11 year old cannot make this choice. He also made it clear that this was a preliminary move before he actually split up the boys and gave me custody of the youngest one and left her with custody of the oldest. The mother has filed multiple, often contradicting cases with the Circuit Court. She has tried to get me fired, supposedly reported me to the FBI. She has contacted my wife for years, she has filed multiple false physical abuse charges again me. Because of my oldest son’s disability I cant take both of them. He has to keep his normal routine and surroundings or he gets much worse. The judge made it clear that if I felt I could take care of both of the boys, he’d give me custody right now, on the spot. But children with severe Autism cannot be juggled around like that, it makes a bad situation much worse. This last time the judge had required us to do the exchange for visitation in front of a local sheriff’s department with law enforcement there because he was worried about her behavior as she had even escalated her voice and other behaviors in court. In front of 3 police officers my youngest son said he didn’t want to go, even with them telling him he had to. So, they were going to force him, so he didn’t come with me. In preparing for the then upcoming court date I am rather sure, to the point of certainty, that the judge was going to give me custody of the youngest son, split the brothers up even though he didn’t want to, because of the extreme nature of the mother’s behavior. The previous court order almost said as much in plain wording. But I got to thinking about it. If I got one son, she had the other, would this end the issues? No, the toxic behavior would have become worse. She would have encouraged the son I had to act out against me. There would have been even more court cases, more allegations of abuse. If I could have taken both boys it would have been a much easier choice, but that was not an option. The constant push and pull of constant litigation on the children was taking a toll. The Guardian ad Litem made it clear she was using the custody issue to continue the divorce proceedings and that it was damaging the children. The judge had once said something in one of the many hearings that we had that sometimes walking away is a valid choice, that the courts are ill-suited at the best of times, to coming up with solutions for custody. So before the hearing I decided that one of us had to put the best interests of the children ahead of their own. So the mother had previously filed for sole physical and legal custody with supervised visits. He had not only turned down her request, but ordered additional visitation and said in the court order she was in contempt of court. I filed a brief removing any objections I had to her giving her physical and legal custody. I put the boys’ ahead of myself. At the hearing the judge was very kind and understanding when I explained why I was doing what I was. He said he was refusing to remove either physical or legal custody from me and would not entertain the idea. He said he was not even changing the custody order, although he would respect my choice not to exercise the right and would include a provision in the upcoming order so I could not be found in contempt of court for not visiting. At the end of this short hearing he looked at the mother and said “you have won, I hope it makes you happy”. Sometimes walking away is the only solution when one parent refuses to put their own interests ahead of their children. It is just in my situation, it is the alienated parent who has to walk away, not the alienating parent. With so much cases now involving children with special needs, specifically Autism, I think cases like this will be more common. Combine multiple children, a profound disability with a very toxic parent, there are no good answers.
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Anonymous

August 15, 2017 at 1:20 pm

For all of the parents who say they cant force their kids to do things they do want to, you do it all of the time unless you are a bad parent. Children,. by their very nature, do not know what is best for them. It is up to the parents to know that. If you can make an argument to a court that visitations should end, by all means do so, but until you get that order you are required to continue the visits whether you or the child in question don't want to. In a recent hearing my mine my ex made the same statement about my 11 year old son, with whom I had previously had a close relationship with. The judge told her it was her responsibility to make sure he visited. It wasn't his choice, it wasn't his responsibility. She was the parent, not him. He also said that many, many times he has had adults come back to him after he had forced visits on them as children and they thanked him from the bottom of their hearts for forcing these visits. It made all of the difference and kept that relationship alive. I haven't seen anyone here who is against the idea of forcing visits once propose that they take a look at THEMSELVES and what they might be doing to cause the child to think about their parent in that way. It is not normal for a child to think this way, and unless there is major abuse going on, a child will not normally turn on a parent. I suggest you all take a look at yourselves and do an inventory on your behavior. Do you talk badly about your ex? Do you use body language that indicates a distaste or dislike of your ex? Do you allow others to talk negatively about them? As a custodial parent you have an OBLIGATION to promote the relationship of your children with the non-custodial parent. It just seems that most people here are moaning that they cant do anything and it is all the other parents fault. Truth is, there is ALWAYS blame to go around on both sides. Have you take a close look at yourself to see just what and how much you are to blame for and what you can do to change it? Stopping visits without due cause and not promoting the child's relationship with the other parent will have life long impacts on your children. Children who loose contact with their other parent in situations like these go on to have more failed relationships as adults, they have higher chances for drug and alcohol abuse, they even have higher risks of being alienated from their own children. Are your issues with your ex worth sacrificing your children's future? If so....continue on as is.
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Sarah

August 20, 2017 at 10:52 am

Because YOU are the problem.
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Stacey

August 20, 2017 at 5:53 pm

This is the reason there is confusion on the part of children, particularly female children, regarding the concept of consent. Homework and chores are responsibilities. Relationships are always optional. ALWAYS. Suggesting that a child be forced to visit a non-custodial parent implies to them that they don't get to make a choice about whom they spend time with. Rather than negating their right to consent to a relationship with anyone, parent or not, we should be supporting their ability to rationally choose which relationships they value and teaching them how to nurture the positive relationships they have rather than tolerate the negative ones we force on them. This argument sounds to me like the emotional and bitter diatribe of a parent whose children didn't want to spend time with them. Wonder if it had anything to do with the authoritarian inflexibility of the author.
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Ranowa

August 24, 2017 at 12:50 am

I was forced to visit my non-custodial parent for two years from ages 14-16. The abuse was emotional- tantamount to unprovable in court, and certainly not of interest to our batshit insane judge. For two years, I was forced to visit this woman. I didn't eat or say a word when I was with her, and I barely slept- I was miserable, constantly stressed and exhausted, and borderline depressed. To this day, I have terrible issues with consent because, for so long, I was told the pain I felt didn't matter just because I wasn't 18, and I could be dragged kicking and screaming into this bitch's house even though I had done nothing wrong. A child's choice in custody issues can be very hard work with in a divorce, I understand that, and I'm not saying a four year old kid should never have to see daddy just if they throw a tantrum- but do not invalidate a child's choice. The harm it does is unbelievable, and it's not right to tell another human being they have no choice but to suffer just because they're not old enough for their pain to matter.
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Ranowa

August 24, 2017 at 12:55 am

Speaking from the other side (I was once the child in this scenario)... do you think your children will really reconnect with you if they're being forced to visit you? If you someone you were angry at or hurt by literally forced you, kicking and screaming, to spend time with them, would you be eager to start up a relationship again, or just want to get the hell away as fast as possible? I know when my mother did it to me, I pushed back, hard, and didn't stop pushing until she stopped forcing me.
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Erica R

September 8, 2017 at 9:58 am

I agree! "I don't force my kid to do what he don't want to do!" Really? Kids need to learn boundaries, it makes them secure, self reliant adults one day. My step son prefers moms house and would rather be there with all the candy, junk food, video games and extra money she has from her new husband. There's no real rules there and he gets here where his dad is a teacher and I run a daycare. We have one 32 inch tv and we don't keep soda and junk in the house and he has chores. But we try to show him how to have fun not staring at a screen. Still, he's 10. What do you think he'll choose?! It's good to give choices to kids- like what they can help make for dinner, what clothes they want to wear, etc. but giving them the choice on where to live (barring there's no abuse of course) is ridiculous. No wonder kids are such entitled brats with no sense of boundaries nowadays
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Carol Penquite

September 15, 2017 at 6:34 pm

What's bullshit is forcing visitation. If you leave a child's home, you can play mommy or daddy all you want...but that's not who you are. My grandchild has lived through emotional hell for years. Started age 3....he would pick her up and drop her with a stranger. Her mother told she was to upset to talk on phone. She is now six and has lost her happy spirit. The system is broken. You want to leave home ... go ahead...but don't think you have the right to drag your kids with you. Legally maybe but morally ...sick.
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Carol Penquite

September 15, 2017 at 6:44 pm

Every child deserves one home...one place of security....being shipped back and forth like furniture is abusive. Yes ... a child is a commitment. Sorry if you just aren't happy. Get over it and raise your kids.
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Jennifer Moreland

September 23, 2017 at 12:10 pm

My daughter is petrified to go to her dads house for a year bribery and assuring her of his love and so on has worked. Last two months have been hell to get her to go. Last night the dam broke, I could not physically get her back out of the house without harming her. Some custodian parents do everything to obey, but a child can only take so much. She is 4 years and so stressed since age 2. I had to call the cops and in turn child protective services got involved. Something has to change in regards to where visitation is done. I promote their relationship as much as I can, following the court order. This man that wrote this has no clue about what he is talking about! ?
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Nicole McVey Chandler

September 29, 2017 at 8:13 pm

My step daughter doesn't want to visit us only because we have rules, get on her about her grades, attendance, school stuff, you know something that her mother doesn't care about, she gets to do whatever she wants there but she is a sophomore currently failing two courses and because we care about her future we are the bad guys. Yes she needs to visit us when its our turn.
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Nicole McVey Chandler

September 29, 2017 at 8:15 pm

My husband and my step daughters mom were never married so he didn't leave, they were not together.
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Wendy

September 29, 2017 at 8:51 pm

Full respect to you for caring about your step daughters education and future...... But, is it the "only" reason she doesn't want to visit you?? I'd say, slagging the child's mother off as you have done in your blog just now is probably more the reason the child doesn't want to visit.... quickest way to alienate a child is to attack the parent she is close too..... think about it.... if your neighbor was disrespecting your loved ones, would you want to spend time with your neighbor???
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Nicole McVey Chandler

September 29, 2017 at 11:02 pm

Try again, we don't talk bad about her in front of her but it really doesn't go like that the other way. I was just reading all of these because she is turning 16 Wednesday, we are having her surprise party tomorrow, and she told her dad once she is 16 she doesn't have to follow the visitation to which I say BS, if my husband is paying his child support that is his right
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Wendy

September 29, 2017 at 11:37 pm

Oh.... I get it.... You want a return on your money! She's a 16year old young woman with feelings, not a purchase. Try giving unconditionally to children and the favour may be returned. The obvious animosity between you and this girls mother has given this girl 16 years of what..... bad memories? And what did this girl do to deserve that? It seems whether she is happy or not it doesn't matter as long as you get a return on child support.... which should be paid, he knew the consequences when he slept with the mother.... yes
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Nicole McVey Chandler

September 30, 2017 at 7:25 am

Oh my goodness you don't even know what you are talking about. We are the only ones looking out for her well being. We went for custody back when she was 4 and even though her mother's whole family testified to drug abuse we still lost because in Iowa its nearly impossible to get the child away from the mother. I've pleaded that the mom let us try schooling her at our schools in our town because she is very low in things like reading and math and we would even continue to pay her child support and her only response every time is that she can't think of any unselfish reason to say no. So who is really not putting her needs first?
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Jane M

November 9, 2017 at 10:20 am

I feel your pain :-( my 2 children (in their teens) used to love me. We had a strong bond and now they don't call me mom, stopped saying I love you, and have no desire to want to see me. By our phone conversations, I could tell they were couched and hate me because of their dad telling them I'm a liar and I'm a bad mom. My heart and prayers are with you ?
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Jane M

November 9, 2017 at 10:26 am

? ? ? I hope and pray things change and your children will remember the time you shared and love for them.
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Jane M

November 9, 2017 at 10:40 am

You are supporting and encouraging her to hate and alienate your ex. You don't think that will affect her later in life?? Take her to counseling or better yet the 3 of you go to a family counselor. Maybe supervised visits and go from there. Seeing you're not following/ supporting a court order, what does that teach your daughter? And you can tell her you could go to jail for not following the court order then she has to live with her mom. Simple as that. Not following the order, you're willing to change the custody to your ex without a fight.
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Jenna

December 18, 2017 at 7:14 pm

I have a huge problem with forced visitations. I get that some children can be munipulative and some custodial parents can be as well, but this is not always the case. I’ve been fighting in court for the past 6 months with my ex over our youngest who is 15 because he called DFS for child abuse on his dad. Since most of the abuse is emotional the social workers dropped the case and the judge ordered GAL involvement. The judge was trying to make it seem like I was bringing up a frivolous argument and my son was playing us against each other. I know my son and I know my ex so I believe my son 100%. My son was always coming home stressed and complaining of constant yelling, name calling, and threatening behavior. Not to mention our older son backs my younger son’s claims. I’ve even brought up drug abuse in the home, my ex has a previous record, and severe hoarding and uncleanliness in the home which was blown off by the judge. Thankfully the GAL sided with my son after interviews and visits to the homes and recommend to the judge that my son have say so over his visitations. The judgment was just made permanent so if there is any time my son feels uncomfortable there he can ask to be taken home or he can skip visits. It’s happened recently since my ex has an infestation of bed bugs that wasn’t addressed and my son has asked not to stay the night until the issue is resolved. He was getting tired of finding bugs crawling on him and getting bitten. Forced visitation may not always be what’s best for the child.
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Yasmine M.

September 2, 2019 at 7:16 am

Reading all of this makes me very nervous. My daughter is only 8 turning 9 and had been saying they didn’t want to visit her mom since she was 4. At the time is was because she wasn’t comfortable, because she was rarely around, maybe once a blue moon unless she had a new man in her life. But now that she’s a bit older, her mom still is not a very active part in our daughters life but it’s changed to our daughter saying she flat out is uncomfortable and whenever she does go to visits her mom is mean, yells at her for no reason, always talks bad about me and my current wife and doesn’t care about how she feels. Now up through this point I have been encouraging her to continue to try to have a relationship with her mom and keep going on visits and even calling her but now even the calls have gotten to be a struggle. Every call is either very short (3min) or they end with my daughter crying after the call because her and her mom are going back and forth. Recently I noticed she was not wanting to take her moms calls at all and has expressed to me that her mom is often yelling at her or questioning her about why she doesn’t call or what she’s doing or being told something against me and my daughter had enough and told her mom with tears in her eyes and all her mom said was that she was being super sensitive and lying and called her disrespectful for talking back. Her mom called me and even tried to go off on me and blame me for it. No matter what I tried to help to explain maybe what our daughter was saying but she didn’t want to hear it and said she didn’t care. Now our daughter says she doesn’t want to see her anymore. What do I do? I have encouraged her to keep going, keep talking and etc but seeing this last event play out was terrible. I mean she’s only 8 yrs old and she already feels this and sees these things. Do I keep forcing her? The last time I did that she actually asked me, “mom, would you want to go hang out with a bully or someone you knew didn’t like your family? So why do you expect me to?” I was taken so off guard I didn’t know what to say. I have tried to keep my own feelings out of it so that she could have an organic relationship ship with her mom but it seems she’s doing damage to her that I don’t feel right forcing her to continue to deal with at such a young age. What am I supposed to do now?
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Mat

October 2, 2019 at 9:35 am

Absolutely agree, break the cycle before bring more children in to your patterns. I don't wonder why the younger generation is so screwed up, I wonder why people continue to reproduce to fill their empty void with in themselves.. Remarry move and wonder why the problems don't go away, perpetuating the cycle of abuse neglect and co-dependence.
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Marti

November 9, 2019 at 3:23 pm

Jane has a valid reason for not wanting to see her father. Sadly, sometimes the kids are manipulated by the other parent into not wanting to talk to the non-custodial parent because as soon as they are done visiting they can do or have something great.
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JenB

November 17, 2019 at 6:18 pm

How do you deal with this situation when the kids become teens and are more interested in spending time with their friends (fear of missing out), not that they don't want to be with the other parent. The parent in custody is fine to let the kid decide what they want to do rather than encourage the agreed to time with the other parent in another state they only see a few weeks each year!
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Adrianne

January 10, 2020 at 8:59 pm

Dee, AMEN! PAS IS DISPROVEN! IN fact, anyone who uses PAS is disbarred. You can file a BAR complaint!!!!!! Most children love the other parent when the other parent has a positive relationship with them. I hope this man loses his license to practice for publishing such anti victim bullshit!
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Adrianne

January 10, 2020 at 9:02 pm

IN all my years of working with children, most CPS reports have been against fathers, but there were two moms I had to report over the years. TOTAL losers. One was making things up all the time, perhaps she was psychotic. But she cared for her child. She did not want her child to have any MAN or male educator, not even for speech therapy. "I don't want her alone in a room with a man! OH MY GOD." This mom was reported. She needed mental help obviously, not necessarily ripped away from her child. The other mother was a complete, abusive, loser.
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Adrianne

January 10, 2020 at 9:08 pm

Who the fuck are you? I hope someone fucks with you so hard that you have to get a restraining order one day. Then you will know how awful it is to go through. As for "come to my place", a new mother who is very tired might do that. A very naive victim who believed their abuser changed, might do that. As an abuse victim myself , who later became an advocate, no. Just no. CPS is working with my ex for all his abuse. He was fucking caught! I split custody with him a long time because I thought he got better after court ordered anger management. Guess what. He did not. Hey first year law student, you don't know your stats. Better study!! Hey first year law student, you can be disbarred for using PAS. It has been DISPROVEN! Most parents deveop a positive relationship with their child, which causes the child to want both parents. Children might be afraid to tell the parent they want the other parent. You also should research what percentage of parents NEVER go to family court, because both parties are agreeable and non abusive, and the father has not given the mom any reason to be concerned or afraid. The percentage is HUGE! Do you study psychology stats? In most cases, abusers and high conflict cases go to court. That means at least half of your cases involve real domestic violence. I have saved your information and given to the BAR association. You should not be allowed to practice family law. Thank you. Bye.
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Courtney

January 11, 2020 at 7:35 am

Fuck off. I EXPERIENCED IT MYSELF AS A CHILD...and am now 41 years old with an incredible father who has been back in my life for over 20 years. He was a wonderful dad to me for the first 8 years of my life and then my mother took me away and filled my head with bs about him. When I became an adult and pieced things together I figured out it was my mother who was a narcissist cheater who wouldn’t let me see him but was happy to cash his checks. She was also mentally & physically abusive. At 14, I tried to commit suicide...what was the point if living if I had a mother who was abusuve and an alcoholic dad who didn’t want to be a father and broke up our family? (or so my mom told me). But I got my dad back. Not only is he not an alcoholic, he always missed me and tried to fight to be part of my life. He suffered through his own depression and suicide attempts as the result of being separated from me. We both suffered tremendously at the hands of my selfish, vindictive mother and a bias court system. Parental Alienation may not be a “syndrome” but it is a real phenomenon and it causes extreme suffering. Sounds like you’re a lot like my mom. I’ll pray your kid(s) don’t end up as fucked up as I am because of their sicko mother.
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Courtney

January 11, 2020 at 7:42 am

You focus way too much on trying to discredit PAS. Is it a “syndrome”? Maybe not. Is parental alienation a real thing??? Absolutely. I wish everyone would just call it PA and not PAS so you can shut the hell up.
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Geoff

April 7, 2020 at 10:45 am

Completely disagree with you-although I am the non-custodial parent who my 16 year old daughter refuses to return to her mother. Of course, this is also in Winnebago County Wisconsin where mothers have ALL the rights and fathers have NONE. I have over 48 pictures and 60 pages of texts proving abusive situations in the home. After she texted her mom she was not going to come home; she was threatened harm by her mother, and her brother literally blitz attacked her via text. It was the grossest text I have ever read (followed by her blocking him in all forms of media and saying he was dead to her after writing such things). So, now I'm in a court phase of them trying to force me into jail (a decorated veteran and first responder who my daughter has testified to a GAL about the abuse and desire to live with me and the court will not look at a SHRED of my evidence). Forcing to eat vegetables is nutrition and they can later hate to eat vegetables and stop. Forcing the brush their teeth is a health issue and they can stop at a later date until their relationships fade. And you, as an attorney should know-we have laws against minors drinking alcohol (it's illegal) and minors having sex (it's illegal), so those are non-starter arguments (kind of like Mike Tyson fighting Ali-who cares, different cases completely). Forcing to see their mother-who is unstable and the child is scared of her? That's a safety issue and my daughter will not be a statistic.
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Adrianne

April 8, 2020 at 9:52 am

Courtney you're a victim of PI parental interference , or custodial interference. Cutting a child off from a fair or good or even protective parent - it's a form of control or mental abuse. Sounds like your mom was an abuser. Ive seen it in small cases before. Mostly I see dads are abusers, but rarely , some moms. That's legit, But has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, which is an abuser making the child fear them, then accusing the non-abusive parent of PAS when the child no longer wants to see the abuser. My child went through HELL with her physically and sexually abusive dad. Kept saying she didn't want to see him , we had to due to the joint custody .... due to patriarchy , CPS only helped her a tiny bit....she began to say even CPS doesnt care .... until she ended up in a hospital , and when I saw the staff and medical notes, it was horrible so he lost custody , judge ordered no contact, she was so relieved. Her health began improving. You should really apologize to me for your comment , saying I'm your mom or whatever. No, I'm not. No, my child's father, not me, is like your mom. I'm not being condescending but maybe consider finding some medical help for the triggers. You don't want things always triggering you and reminding you of your evil mom. That's no fun. I mean that in a nice way. Abuse victims should all get their help for triggers and other stuff too.
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Adrianne

April 8, 2020 at 9:59 am

Lynn, Sadly, courts DO that. They are sick. What I've seen here? I saw a kidnapping FELON mom who just got out of prison for dealing meth, who had kidnapped the kid (twice) for years at a time away from dad. I saw this mom get unsupervised visitation, all summer long!!!! Unsupervised visitation. Just handed out like a freebie. And major breaks and holidays. Out here I hear of dads getting out of prison after a decade and suddenly a good stable foster family has to hand a little girl over to some felon, and she has to go live with a strange man she never knew. And say bye to the stable foster family forever. Unsupervised visitation and eventually joint custody were given to a father I know of. He ended up doing physical and sexual abuse and lost custody when his child ended up in the mental hospital. We should sue the duck out of these judges who put children in harms way.
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Adria

April 8, 2020 at 10:07 am

It's god awful that the rashes were a big deal to lose custody over, (maybe they were severe rashes from neglect?) but the parental drugs and suicide attempt and sex offender inside the home all didn't matter ??! WTAF! Was it just heresay? Dad's can make up total bs about moms to get joint custody. But the sex offender and drugs and suicide attempt in front of the child were not enough? This is why judges and lawyers are total jokes. They should NOT be deciding what is in best interest of the children because they are not licensed therapists or doctors.
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Adrianne

April 8, 2020 at 10:16 am

Lynn That's an extremely damaging thing to say. When one side abuses and lies and the other side is telling the honest actual truth? Then what? "Truth is in the middle?" Murderers who say "I didn't do it" and the victim says yes. You're saying there are two sides when one person is a lying sociopath and the orher is a victim? WTAF?!!! Judges who think like that cause extreme damage. My family member is so damaged we have a civil suit on the people who pushed for her to be damaged when there was already evidence of abuse. But some stupid judge thought "the truth is somewhere in the middle", when the reality was the abuser lied and made a smear campaign to discredit his victims and get joint custody. This judge is the reason , I suspect , that the local child mental hospitals are always full and crowded. Disbarr!!!!!
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LoisLane

May 7, 2020 at 2:28 pm

My mother and father are not yet divorced, not even separated... My mother lied to my family, betrayed me, abandoned my younger brother at a store that was closed and 20 minutes away from home to hang out with my ex boyfriend, “borrowed” money from my older brother, and is currently engaged (while still married) to somebody closer to my age then hers. She left $10 in my parents’ shared bank account for my dad to take care of my brother and me for a week. The money in the account was all from my dad’s paycheck at the time. We later discovered that our house was in foreclosure bc my mom was taking the mortgage for her own personal use. Now, here we are in 2020. I will be 18 in 2 days, but my brother will still be only 17 after his birthday in July. So tell me, should my brother be forced to see my mom simply because she gave birth to him?
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Chris Smith

August 4, 2020 at 8:27 pm

It called the Basic Human rights if not living in fear, feeling safe, no person shall be forced to be in a place that do not want to be, and nothing can trump the basic human rights. There is good in everyone, I mean there was good in Ted Bundy, correct? How many people vouched for him? So let’s not base it because someone or others claim “good” or “bad”. The simple answer is based on the person wants to be with that person blood or not, parent or not. An abuser doesn’t show himself to everyone but only to the victim. Lawyers manipulate along with the therapist, that’s why they get paid the big bucks. The lawyers are there to make the money and they don’t care what happens when the order is said and done. A lawyer a therapist a judge do not have to live with the consequences of a child not being heard, a child who grows up in an environment that they don’t want to be. It never impacts them the way it does the child.
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Chris

August 4, 2020 at 10:10 pm

A parent should or should not support and stand with their child’s decision? A million dollar question when the child doesn’t want to see a parent. The million dollar answer if the parent doesn’t support the child decision then who does? If the child does not know the parent has their back and believes them? Then who does. And do not go dramatic and compare this to a bunch of other stuff, eg you support you child if they do drugs etc. because no I would not do that, but I would give them all my love and show them the way while knowing I could never force them into recovery because that is the addicts choice. But I can set my boundaries. Compare to going to school, yes my child has an option to attend public school and if not can be home school, and if affordable private school. There are always options. Every parent should ALWAYS listen to their child, and do not deny your child’s feelings, and at the end of the day, not all children will disclose abuse, and because they say don’t want to go and don’t give a valid reason, it’s okay, because they are not ready to disclose abuse. The child wants to pretend it never happen and going living, and not to continue to talk abt it, they want to be “normal” and when you admit that abuse, then comes all this other stuff with it, which most adults either deny or have a hard time admitting and dealing with it. For any court appointed person who says the child doesn’t want to go, and didn’t give a valid reason, feels it’s okay to force a child. I call bullshit on the JDR System.
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Elizabeth Diemert

November 12, 2020 at 5:05 pm

My grand daughter's mother plans parties and special events during her father's visits and tells the child that she can tell her dad that she doesn't want to visit so that she can attend the party This is a blatant interference with visitation
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JEREMY R SMITH

December 18, 2020 at 8:19 pm

I AM DEALING WITH THIS EXACT ISSUE NOW. MY X WILL NOT ENFORCE OUR COURT ORDER VISITATION. TWO VISITS AGO SHE SCHEDULED VACATION DURING MY TIME AND THEN THE NEXT ONE MY DAUGHTER IS TELLING ME SHE DONT WANT TO COME AND NOW TIME FOR THIRD ONE SHE WANT EVEN ANSWER THE PHONE. I HAVE TALKED TO MY DAUGHTER EVERY DAY FOR THE LAST 16 YEARS. NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN SHE IS IGNORING ME AND NOT COMING TO VISITAIONS. I KNOW SHE IS A TEENAGER AND THEY WANT TO HANG WITH FRIENDS. BUT VISITATION IS IMPORTANT WAY MORE THAN MY DAUGHTER CAN SEE AND APPARENTLY MY X. SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE THE SAY SO IN IF SHE COMES OR NOT. YES SHE CAN SPEAK HER MIND AND HOW SHE FEELS. BUT TEENAGERS DONT THINK PAST TODAY. MY X IS GOING ALONG WITH THIS OR EITHER CAUSING IT. WHAT DO I DO?
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LKM

January 2, 2021 at 8:21 am

Thank you, Chris. This was spot on!
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Crystal

June 6, 2022 at 5:34 am

I have five boys and my eldest as he was in high school, spoke about wanting to live full time with his dad that he wanted his love and approval, he knew he had mine. Said he would do “whatever it took” Said that then ran away, ex kept him from me for a year while waiting court, when I fought for him it made things worse between the kids and I, all of a sudden said we abused him, which never happened said he was mad at me, didn’t love me, didn’t miss me. Actually their Father was very abusive towards the kids and I when I was in the relationship with him, went to jail for abuse. The father and us used the same discipline, so he said. Then second son started high school, said on day before running away his Dad would “die if he ever decided not to come back and see him” same thing ran away to dads (but never heard from him again) during court so it looked like a “change of circumstance” said we were abusive again, now pushing it’s my fiancé, more than me, we were gone on date night, not even home. Ex went as far as getting fiancés ex involved and got his daughter to lie and say he abused her, she got caught lying and being manipulated by her Mom, her Mom took it to appeal court and at this time two attorney fees and long list of other fees we were broke, they purposely took it all from us and was allowed to do so, couldn’t afford an appealing attorney so my fiancé lost his daughter. But my ex and I still headed to court now pro Se since my attorney was too stress out. (She quit family law all together) ex said “we were abusive and second oldest didn’t want to come back if they made him he would run away again and be homeless” Mean while they have cars bought for them, by their Dad and having dad as a friend, money from dad but dad doesn’t spend time with them at all working all the time. I was always there stay at home Mom. Now they have no bio parent around, hardly. After court oldest told my family “he loves love me and isn’t upset with me and miss me, but when around their Dad, totally different person, or in court. Now I only have three boys left, I get to have anything to do with, one day a week and every other weekend. Also; my third oldest is almost in high school, so I am betting that will chance soon) Exs attorney filed a “change in circumstance” after second one ran away, ex and girlfriend made themselves look like saints and make me and fiancé look like the devil, even though I had so much evidence to prove otherwise, since his attorney filed that motion I wasn’t allowed to use most of the evidence cause it was considered “old evidence” (before motion was entered) The judge believed his lies and their false allegations without any evidence being presented only false testimony from boys and Dad and girlfriend. We had to wait so much time in between for our court case to be heard, that it gave his attorney an out, the judges ruled “I tried to alienated myself” instead. I had thousands of texts, calls reaching out to my kids, ex about whereabouts, activities, updates on life changes, asking about school, speaking to teachers, counselors, therapists all didn’t matter in end for judge to also rule the kids “no longer need any therapy, at all” also to include my fiancé and I have two boys together and judge also ruled my other boys “shouldn’t have anything to do with my three year old I share with my fiancé.” “they didn’t need to” second son wasn’t conceived until after court, so not included in documents. This is five years almost six in a nutshell. Thanks for the opportunity to share my story. Crystal
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Matt

August 20, 2022 at 3:34 pm

I’m a dad in the same situation. I made the mistake of not seeking legal counsel when my ex suddenly refused my visitations and all other forms of contact. We had a disagreement over the COVID vaccines for our kids, me being against giving them to children. But she got herself a lawyer, filed an ex parte order saying I’m unstable and that our kids are terrified to be with me. And I haven’t seen or spoken with them going on 5 months now. Get a lawyer if you can, or go to your towns family law court building and they can help you some. Get the correct paperwork, file a motion against your ex because she is violating your legal right to visitation. It’s of dire importance that you act before your ex. And if she has already taken legal action it’s still very important that you go to the family law court building to file a response. I know this because I was in court yesterday. I didn’t file a response and the judge pushed our case back another 45 days because I knew nothing and thought I could just show up in court and the judge would be able to see that my ex is being vindictive and using parental alienating tactics by the book. Don’t make any decisions based on your emotions. It’s beyond devastating I know, but she will only use that emotion against you. Be a stone cold rational decision maker, and don’t believe that your daughter suddenly wants nothing to do with you. (Assuming no abuse took place)
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